58. Tui / The Joyous, Lake

[meng]

That's why the transition in 58, from a joy which relies on others to a joy which is self generating and renewing. Four of 58's lines are warnings, pointing to emptiness and suffering. If one is going to have enduring joy, they're going to have to not rely so much upon others for it.

 

[meng]

Hello, everyone -
having recently joined, just thought i would like to say hello. As this thread had the most recent post, thought it most appropriate. Also, 'Tui' the lake is often used in my readings to refer to me (being a youngest daughter) (I like how it still applies even in just the relative sense!)
Hope to have something to share at some point, but in the meantime a big 'thank you' to Hilary for introducing me to her I Ching world.

Cheers, Nonni! Indeed, 58's an appropriate place.

 

[hilary]

Hello, everyone -
having recently joined, just thought i would like to say hello. As this thread had the most recent post, thought it most appropriate. Also, 'Tui' the lake is often used in my readings to refer to me (being a youngest daughter) (I like how it still applies even in just the relative sense!)
Hope to have something to share at some point, but in the meantime a big 'thank you' to Hilary for introducing me to her I Ching world.

Hello, Nonni! (Yes, definitely a good thread for it )

 

[maremaria]

That's why the transition in 58, from a joy which relies on others to a joy which is self generating and renewing. Four of 58's lines are warnings, pointing to emptiness and suffering. If one is going to have enduring joy, they're going to have to not rely so much upon others for it.

yup

I had to look how 47 changes to 58. 47.1> 58. Make sense what you say.
Thanks

Maria

 

[meng]

yup

I had to look how 47 changes to 58. 47.1> 58. Make sense what you say.
Thanks

Maria

Lines 1 and 3 change to 28. 47 is a drought, 28 is a flood. I've never had a young sister or daughter, but this is how I'd imagine her to be, all with quite a lot of joy.

 

[maremaria]

Never had a sister either .

I look at my niece and I think they are very lucky to have a sister. The little one is very 58, lol. What I like about them is how different they are. Independent but also interdependent. Like the two lake of 58. they make a good team, when they don't fight of course. But even when they fight , its nice to see them how they protect their borders.

 

[rodaki]

58.1 to 47 is one of those first lines that really stand out IMO . .
joy that starts from a secluded or drained place -depending on how each one sees it- where words don't grow . . yes, I think I can see a great advice in this . .

 

[maremaria]

I was looking again at 47 .1 and 58.1
The subject in 47.1 is kind of hopeless and in 58.1 to me looks like hopeful
The lake in 47 is water-less and in 58 water-full
Do you find any association with Dui and hope, inner strength ?
Is that girl just joyful or this joy is a expression of something else ?
And , in the same train of though, do you see any association between the lake and the well ?

Those are unpolished thought so if you see a train going derailed, fell free to correct me.

 

[meng]

in Rosada's stead

The judgment
THE JOYOUS. Success.
Perseverance is favorable.

The joyous mood is infectious and therefore brings success. But joy must be based on steadfastness if it's not to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Truth and strength must dwell in the heart, while gentleness reveals itself in social intercourse. In this way one assumes the right attitude toward God and man and achieves something. Under certain conditions, intimidation without gentleness may achieve something momentarily, but not for all time. When, on the other hand, the hearts of men are won by friendliness, they are led to take all hardships on themselves willingly, and if need be won't shun death itself, so great is the power of joy over men.

 

[rodaki]

visuals

the seven Rila lakes

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2335590350084773320yGYiCQ
http://www.safebulgarianproperties.com/en/gallery/Seven_Rila_Lakes.html
http://www.summitpost.org/area/range/151090/rila.html


when I came across photos of this place I couldn't believe my eyes . .
I have a strange affinity to bulgarian landscape and folklore and as chance has it, I met a Bulgarian girl last year - a future friend perhaps- who had a strange affinity for greek landscape . . it made us feel like interlocking lakes in a sense

 

[Sparhawk]

That is really beautiful!

 

[maremaria]

wow !!!

thanks for sharing rodaki

 

[rodaki]

 

[meng]

The image
Lakes resting one on the other:
The image of THE JOYOUS.
Thus the superior man joins with his friends
For discussion and practice.

A lake evaporates upward and thus gradually dries up; but when two lakes are joined they don't dry up so readily, for one replenishes the other. It's the same in the field of knowledge. Knowledge should be a refreshing and vitalizing force. It becomes so only through stimulating intercourse with congenial friends with whom one holds discussion and practices application of the truths of life. In this way learning becomes many-sided and takes on a cheerful lightness, whereas there's always something ponderous and one- sided about the learning of the self-taught.

 

[hilary]

The judgment
THE JOYOUS. Success.
Perseverance is favorable.

The joyous mood is infectious and therefore brings success. But joy must be based on steadfastness if it's not to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Truth and strength must dwell in the heart, while gentleness reveals itself in social intercourse. In this way one assumes the right attitude toward God and man and achieves something. Under certain conditions, intimidation without gentleness may achieve something momentarily, but not for all time. When, on the other hand, the hearts of men are won by friendliness, they are led to take all hardships on themselves willingly, and if need be won't shun death itself, so great is the power of joy over men.

Oh, Wilhelm, bless the man... no, of course we wouldn't want to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Certainly not. We take ourselves far too seriously.

Another perspective - 兌亨。利貞。 - dui heng li zhen. Hexagram 1 says 元亨利貞 - yuan heng li zhen. So dui is in the place of yuan - sublimity, or source, beginnings. (LiSe says: "When it says in a hexagram ‘yuan’, this means there is an opening, new fields for things to happen or make them happen, new paths. There is creative potential, or material to work with.") The substitution makes dui look to me like a special kind of yuan.

 

[Trojina]

Oh, Wilhelm, bless the man... no, of course we wouldn't want to degenerate into uncontrolled mirth. Certainly not. We take ourselves far too seriously.

.

yes its vital that mirth be controlled at all times


Do we have any mediums in the house ? I would love to meet the spirit of Wilhelm, bless him.


Odd that there are two threads running at about the same pace on 58, one in CC one here, double lake hmmm .

 

[frank_r]

Hello again everybody,

Dora, beautifull pictures of these lakes in Bulgaria.

This did me think of the three vulcanic lakes in Flores an island in Indonesia. On this island there are three vulcanic lakes that change colours because of the vulcanos. The water is fed by a vulcanic gas source. Resulting in highly acid water.There is the blue, turquoise and red( black) lake. The coloured lakes change colours on an irregular basis, depending on the oxidation state of the lake from bright red through green, turquoise, blue and brown black .

Frank

 

[meng]

Nine at the beginning:

Contented joyousness. Good fortune.

A quiet, wordless, self-contained joy, desiring nothing from without and resting content with everything, remains free of all egotistic likes and dislikes. In this freedom lies good fortune, because it harbors the quiet security of a heart fortified within itself.

 

[meng]

photo by LiSe

I think it depicts line 1 well.

 

[maremaria]

Nice pictures Frank and Meng.

The one photo with the turquoise and dark red/black lake, makes me think that sometimes we are the bright turquoise lake and some others the dark one.

Ans that cow, aww ,it looks a very happy cow. Indeed a very good 58.1 pic.


QUOTE]The image
Lakes resting one on the other:
The image of THE JOYOUS.
Thus the superior man joins with his friends
For discussion and practice.

A lake evaporates upward and thus gradually dries up; but when two lakes are joined they don't dry up so readily, for one replenishes the other. It's the same in the field of knowledge. Knowledge should be a refreshing and vitalizing force. It becomes so only through stimulating intercourse with congenial friends with whom one holds discussion and practices application of the truths of life. In this way learning becomes many-sided and takes on a cheerful lightness, whereas there's always something ponderous and one- sided about the learning of the self-taught..[/QUOTE]

"cheerful lightness" is a very accurate description of how its feel when you talk with friends.

 

[hilary]

Nine at the beginning:

Contented joyousness. Good fortune.

A quiet, wordless, self-contained joy, desiring nothing from without and resting content with everything, remains free of all egotistic likes and dislikes. In this freedom lies good fortune, because it harbors the quiet security of a heart fortified within itself.

I find it especially memorable that this line joins with 47 - the ultimate in self-sufficiency, so it fits well with W/B's commentary. But what a starting point for 58!

 

[meng]

Yes, it's a dynamic contrast, isn't it. If one has no joy when completely alone, then it is like being locked up inside a tree, rather than an open supporter of ones own environment.

 

[fkegan]

Hi Hilary and Meng and all,

The first line of hex 58 represents what happens when the situation of the friendly discussion and refreshment of the double Lake trigrams expresses and exhausts itself. It is a development of a self-contained joy that continues to sustain itself even as the unusual drought conditions dries up both Lake Trigrams in the Resultant Hexagram 47.

Today, I was able to culminate my thinking and posting here by writing the overall explanation of the King Wen Sequence in terms of the actual structure of the Chou Yi or Flux Tome to put into its place before the long explanation of the hexagrams and the four essential perspectives of the Monad, Dyad, Triad and Tetrad on my Flux Tome Page of my web site.

Thank you all of the I Ching Clarity Community for your assistance as a sounding board and background for my personal development and work to achieve the simplicity suggested by my Panda Express Fortune Cookie.:bows:

Best Regards,

Frank

 

[rodaki]

hi Frank (R.) . . wow these are some lakes!


dear Frank (K.),
I have learnt a lot from your posts and still learning, so I hope you would keep contributing your insights here . .
All the best and take care

:bows:
Dora

 

[fkegan]

hi Frank (R.) . . wow these are some lakes!


dear Frank (K.),
I have learnt a lot from your posts and still learning, so I hope you would keep contributing your insights here . .
All the best and take care

:bows:
Dora

Hi Dora,

Thanx for the appreciation. :bows:
I learn from the posts and the reactions too. Even the yucky ones are an education and the good ones are fantastic. My contributions here are a major part of my learning curve.

Frank

 

[jilt]

my researches into lake:

http://picasaweb.google.com/bertdalmolen/ResearchesIntoLake?feat=directlink

 

[my_key]

58.1- joy in joy

Nine at the beginning:

Contented joyousness. Good fortune.

A quiet, wordless, self-contained joy, desiring nothing from without and resting content with everything, remains free of all egotistic likes and dislikes. In this freedom lies good fortune, because it harbors the quiet security of a heart fortified within itself.

58.1 - The inward feelings of joy that we are having are all that we need. They bubble in and around us making everything we do and say joyful. We really have connected to centre.

 

[midaughter]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Tui means to "give

joy." Tui leads the common folk and with joy they forget their toil and even their fear of death. She is sometimes also called a sorceress because of her association with the gathering yin energy of approaching winter. She is a symbol of the West and autumn, the place and time of death.[/FONT]​

 

[jilt]

she does the beach

thought this would rhyme nicely with 58-1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ljdart/3852033726/

 

[rodaki]

lol . .
beautiful paintings Bert :bows:

more visual thoughts on 58.1:
-In the NW greek borders there are twin lakes Prespes, one of which has an islet with a -ruined by now- small church. Isolation within a lake? (http://olympic.aminus3.com/image/2008-03-13.html)

-or perhaps 58.1/47 as an underground cave lake? (http://www.redbubble.com/people/adrianpaul/art/3476280-2-lake-cave-margaret-river-wa)

-an artist friend works a lot around the idea of 'gezellige kooi', which roughly translates as 'happy confinement' . . have posted this before but I thought it fitted this line nicely