there's a new girl in town (also - cledonomany and lateral divination)

jesed · Nov 30, 2009

It's a refreshing air to read you, neegula. Just wanna say that.
best wishes

buzzurro · Nov 30, 2009

neegula said:
what an adventure without even moving from your chair!
the fact is if you can recall the specific thought you were "having" in that moment, when the car arrived.
in my past i had to "train" a bit for keeping the attention both on the thought and the fact going on: i was resetting the first one at once as the fact started manifestating (hope i'm explaining what i mean...).

Yes, it's very clear. Toobad I wasn't smart enough to notice exactly what I was thinking in that moment, but at least I know I was reviewing the moving lines of hexagram 44 and trying to understand this reading...

trojan said:
heh heh your story is very strange "You ball of stone" !? what was the reading you were looking up in Wilhelm ? Was it 16.2 by any chance ? Would you care to share what you thought the words meant ? well not if its too personal of course.

I suddenly wonder if you can remember the Kajagoogoo...

Well, actually I'm still very confused about the possible meanings of it all... it's one of those readings that can take me a lifetime to interpret, firstly because I was trying to get some insight about the causes of my psychosomatic diseases, which is a life-long issue, and also because I'm afraid the question I phrased was too generic:
"Why do I feel so bad/sick?"
And I got 44.1,2,4,5,6 > 36

uch:

So you see, I got all these moving lines about entangled pigs, fishes in and out of the trap, melons and horns... and suddenly the additional image of a ball of stone descended from heaven by means of an unwitting messenger... well, I'm really not sure what it might mean, but I think something on the lines of LiSe's comment to hexagram 34:

"God made man from clay. He blew life into him.
But man prefers to be a stone, so he bakes himself into a brick, strong and invulnerable."

Except that a ball is round, not square as a brick...

maremaria said:
Quess which is the word .... Yes, cafeomancy

"reading coffee dregs" , I mean cafeomancy , is very common here in Greece.

Funniest thing is I had already been told, but I forgot the word! :rofl:

Well, it's no wonder it's very common in Italy too, we share such a vast common ground in history and traditions...

neegula · Nov 30, 2009

buzzurro said:
Funniest thing is I had already been told, but I forgot the word!
Well, it's no wonder it's very common in Italy too, we share such a vast common ground in history and traditions...

it may be very common in both countries, seen the amount of coffee that we both, italian and greek people drink!!!

let me finish this coffee i have here now, then i'll go on chatting with all of you :rofl:

Trojina · Nov 30, 2009

buzzurro said:
I suddenly wonder if you can remember the Kajagoogoo...
Well, actually I'm still very confused about the possible meanings of it all... it's one of those readings that can take me a lifetime to interpret, firstly because I was trying to get some insight about the causes of my psychosomatic diseases, which is a life-long issue, and also because I'm afraid the question I phrased was too generic:
"Why do I feel so bad/sick?"
And I got 44.1,2,4,5,6 > 36 uch:

So you see, I got all these moving lines about entangled pigs, fishes in and out of the trap, melons and horns... and suddenly the additional image of a ball of stone descended from heaven by means of an unwitting messenger... well, I'm really not sure what it might mean, but I think something on the lines of LiSe's comment to hexagram 34:

"God made man from clay. He blew life into him.
But man prefers to be a stone, so he bakes himself into a brick, strong and invulnerable."

Except that a ball is round, not square as a brick...

Kajagoogoo ? weren't they an 80s band ? Why remember them ?

Don't know what you mean ?

The answer 'you ball of stone' well theres a number of ways you could take that...about rigidity mainly ? You are sick because you are like a 'ball of stone' hmm well if you can relate to it in any way I guess its worth thinking over....unless you decide to think it was afterall just a nut case calling stupid things out of a car window

Possibly if you keep that ball of stone image in your mind, maybe even draw what it might look like or something, or make a story around it the image will stay alive and its meaning become more apparent to you as time goes on.

Isn't there some saying abut a man with a ball of stone around his neck...some legend or myth about that ? Atlas carrying the world on his shoulders ? http://www.sculpturegallery.com/sculpture/atlas.html Does that look like you Buzzaro ?

Lol probably kagagoogoo is some ancient myth...or something cultural...but to me its an 80s pop band

maremaria · Nov 30, 2009

neegula said:
ehilà! a send a hug to you and to the vibrating land you live!

buzzurro said:
Funniest thing is I had already been told, but I forgot the word!
Well, it's no wonder it's very common in Italy too, we share such a vast common ground in history and traditions...

Yes, that is true. There is a saying here ""Una Faccia Una Razza"

neegula said:
it may be very common in both countries, seen the amount of coffee that we both, italian and greek people drink!!!
let me finish this coffee i have here now, then i'll go on chatting with all of you

Lol, yup !!!
Going out for a coffee is a ritual (hehehe) here. Its takes at least 2 hours.

neegula · Nov 30, 2009

trojan said:
You are sick because you are like a 'ball of stone' hmm well if you can relate to it in any way I guess its worth thinking over.... Possibly if you keep that ball of stone image in your mind, maybe even draw what it might look like or something, or make a story around it the image will stay alive and its meaning become more apparent to you as time goes on.

if i may ask, did the guys speak italian? if yes, what did they say "palla di pietra?" language too may make a big difference

i agree it can be very very good idea drawing the image that comes to you from the happening, as it normally helps a lot writing down dreams as soon as we wake up.

friendly
neegula

rodaki · Nov 30, 2009

is the party still open to latecomers?
welcome aboard Neegula

neegula · Nov 30, 2009

rodaki said:
is the party still open to latecomers?
welcome aboard Neegula

halloooo!!!!
i've been reading you here and there!
very glad to meet you!

neegula · Nov 30, 2009

maremaria said:
Lol, yup !!!
Going out for a coffee is a ritual (hehehe) here. Its takes at least 2 hours.

yes, i remember when i was in rhodes for a holiday (the last one i had with my parents, actually), i spent few hours in a coffee place (?) and this i enjoyed so much!

after few years, the year i finished the institute for becoming teacher of gymnastic -my father asked me what did i want as a present for i finished university,- i asked a plane ticket to Crete. from there i travelled to some islands and then i arrived in naxos.
in this very beautiful place and beaches, i met my spiritual family from hinduist new school. from that i started my spiritual path, first embracing many forms of religion and philosohies (buddism, cristianism, witnesses of geova, gurdjeff, tibetan buddism) to arrive to neo-pagan tradition 8above all celtic tradition) that fits me the most as human being.
so i'm very in love with greece for the meeting with jay maharishi krisna and ellen molnia (have a look on youtube for the "new" ellen if you like some kind of devotional music) but also for honey with youghurt , and coffeeeeeeeeee!!!!! :rofl:

neegula · Nov 30, 2009

jesed said:
It's a refreshing air to read you, neegula. Just wanna say that.
best wishes

buzzurro · Dec 1, 2009

trojan said:
Kajagoogoo ? weren't they an 80s band ? Why remember them ? Don't know what you mean ?

Sorry, it was intended as pure silliness...

Because I was going to tell you that I'm usually too shy to discuss my readings publicly... but I couldn't write it, because that song was such an obsession that now, everytime I think of these two words, I can hear Limahl's voice from the back of my mind going: "too shy shy, hush hush, eye to eye..."

By lucky chance you live too far away to come here and hit me with the first blunt instrument at hand...

(But then, I have to say, when Limahl left the band they issued a really great album, Islands...

)

The answer 'you ball of stone' well theres a number of ways you could take that...about rigidity mainly ? You are sick because you are like a 'ball of stone' hmm well if you can relate to it in any way I guess its worth thinking over....unless you decide to think it was afterall just a nut case calling stupid things out of a car window Possibly if you keep that ball of stone image in your mind, maybe even draw what it might look like or something, or make a story around it the image will stay alive and its meaning become more apparent to you as time goes on.

Stone is rigid, yes, and also cold... being called a "ball of stone" is totally meaningless in itself, but if you relate it to hexagram 44 it becomes very meaningful, I think... you know, I was uncertain if I had to interpret it as being unable to resist temptations or, on the contrary, trying to keep under control something that's too powerful for that... I hope you understand what I mean... the image of the stone clearly points to the second hypothesis, don't you think?
Well, of course it was a nut case calling stupid things... but that's exactly what made me think of him as an unwitting messenger... somewhat like divining from animals' behaviour! :rofl:

Isn't there some saying abut a man with a ball of stone around his neck...some legend or myth about that ? Atlas carrying the world on his shoulders ? http://www.sculpturegallery.com/sculpture/atlas.html Does that look like you Buzzaro ?

Well, the correct spelling is "buzzurro"... two "u", pronounced like in "boo", double "z" and double "r"... it's the phonetics that makes the word sound so funny, IMHO!

And yes, maybe the image of Atlas is also related to my issue, somehow... I noticed at work that I always take my duties much more seriously than most people around... which is fundamentally a good thing, but can have bad side effects... thanks for your help on this!

buzzurro · Dec 1, 2009

buzzurro said:
"God made man from clay. He blew life into him.
But man prefers to be a stone, so he bakes himself into a brick, strong and invulnerable."

Except that a ball is round, not square as a brick...

Ok, stone is rigid and cold, but why a ball, why is it also round in this case...?

Again from LiSe's site, the Shuo Gua on Qian, upper trigram of 44:

"11. The Creative is heaven. It is round, it is the prince, the father, jade, metal, cold (...)"
Eureka!

ompom:

(By, the way, Maria, when I was in Greece I came to the conclusion that there must be an Italian double for every Greek person, and vice versa...

)

Well, actually, I still have to make sense of all those moving lines, including two contradicting each other... but at least I know which direction to follow!

Trojina · Dec 1, 2009

buzzurro said:
Stone is rigid, yes, and also cold... being called a "ball of stone" is totally meaningless in itself, but if you relate it to hexagram 44 it becomes very meaningful, I think... you know, I was uncertain if I had to interpret it as being unable to resist temptations or, on the contrary, trying to keep under control something that's too powerful for that... I hope you understand what I mean... the image of the stone clearly points to the second hypothesis, don't you think?
Well, of course it was a nut case calling stupid things... but that's exactly what made me think of him as an unwitting messenger... somewhat like divining from animals' behaviour!

Well, the correct spelling is "buzzurro"... two "u", pronounced like in "boo", double "z" and double "r"... it's the phonetics that makes the word sound so funny, IMHO!
And yes, maybe the image of Atlas is also related to my issue, somehow... I noticed at work that I always take my duties much more seriously than most people around... which is fundamentally a good thing, but can have bad side effects... thanks for your help on this!

Yes i can see that hypothesis...you've been suppressing your urges eh..., time to let rip, go wild, be a boozeroo :rofl:

rodaki · Dec 1, 2009

neegula said:
halloooo!!!!
i've been reading you here and there!
very glad to meet you!

very glad to meet you too Neegula

quite a reading you got there Buzzurro!!

it seems like what happened to you could carry a message abt your reading but it looks to me that the message is not in the words but in the incident as a whole, ie, here you were, going about your business when you find yourself in an unexpected situation that throws at you something you cannot handle very well, nor grasp . . and while your conscientiousness urges you to put things in their place, the light giving, illuminating aspect of this is still in shadows or goes by unnoticed . .
. .could it be that the incident shows you in some way a miniature of the bigger picture that made you feel bad/sick?
hmmm . . that doesn't help much in terms of advice i guess, but sometimes i think that the Yi won't give straightforward directions because the problem itself carries within it its own solution, so Yi will just show how things are at the moment and only hint at the solutions that are waiting hidden in the situation itself, slowly ripening . .
oh well, I'm not sure if that helps at all, just sharing some thoughts here . .
good luck with this and hope you'll feel better soon!!

neegula · Dec 1, 2009

buzzurro said:
"too shy shy, hush hush, eye to eye..."

trying to keep under control something that's too powerful for that...

buzzurro said:
Again from LiSe's site, the Shuo Gua on Qian, upper trigram of 44:

"11. The Creative is heaven. It is round, it is the prince, the father, jade, metal, cold (...)"
Eureka! ompom:

this way?

neegula · Dec 1, 2009

rodaki said:
the problem itself carries within it its own solution, so Yi will just show how things are at the moment and only hint at the solutions that are waiting hidden in the situation itself, slowly ripening . .

i'm following, but there is something i...miss..
few words more?

:bows:

rodaki · Dec 2, 2009

neegula said:
i'm following, but there is something i...miss..
few words more? :bows:

well, that's the thing, the unseen, missing part . . maybe we cannot see it because it is too embedded in the nature of the situation that if we don't know how to read the situation we cannot possibly see the answer.

not that i can read the situations myself, things are still mysteries

. . it's just that sometimes there might be something like an insight that if we could really listen to the situations we would have the answers to our questions . .

rambling

. .

neegula · Dec 2, 2009

rodaki said:
not that i can read the situations myself, things are still mysteries . . it's just that sometimes there might be something like an insight that if we could really listen to the situations we would have the answers to our questions . .

rambling . .

46thevanguard said:
There are 'echos' everywhere. The snippets of words you overhear on the television, for example. But it can be incredibly subtle, this tuning into the natural world, as well as into the unseen world.

Sudden inspiration is another manifestation. The steadying 'voice' that you hear in your heart is yet another.

i post again what i was posting some days ago, few pages ago:

what you think does move our inspiration?
why are some people more on alert than other?
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others?

what is insight? not for a matter of translation this time, but of Existence

pantherpanther · Dec 3, 2009

i post again what i was posting some days ago, few pages ago:
what you think does move our inspiration?
why are some people more on alert than other?
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others?

what is insight? not for a matter of translation this time, but of Existence

Neegula,
Imagination, inspiration and intution are graduated states of consciousness in
various schools of practical meditation (including the Greek and Christian teachings).

But for divining, healing etc., a conscious effort to be aware of being present in the body ,
"centered," can increase alertness at moments. Some learn to do this naturally in other activities.
It may be in athletics or cooking a meal.

neegula · Dec 3, 2009

pantherpanther said:
But for divining, healing etc., a conscious effort to be aware of being present in the body ,
"centered," can increase alertness at moments. Some learn to do this naturally in other activities.
It may be in athletics or cooking a meal.

"i am Present and aware" as a mantra... or a mantra that leads there.
and those who "learn" naturally, in the existence instead of in activities, are born like that, illuminated. ?

thanks so much for this kind of discussion, i'm trying in this period to recover what i've been loosing with speedness and problems in practical life of the last few months. i see some new windows opened, but something else running away.

well, i'm also a bit over-meticolous...

rodaki · Dec 3, 2009

neegula said:
i post again what i was posting some days ago, few pages ago:

what you think does move our inspiration?
why are some people more on alert than other?
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others?

what is insight? not for a matter of translation this time, but of Existence

hello again!

uhm . . i'm certainly not the person to answer such questions . . :bag:
sometimes I'll get into thinking about them myself, toss them about to see how they fall, then i'll leave them aside again . . not sure if there are any definitive answers . .
but for the sake of discussion here, this is my take on them:

what you think does move our inspiration? . . not thinking or looking about it too much seems to help . . like dancing, if you think about it too much you are not going to move or get moved

why are some people more on alert than other? I don't think that this is true . . depending on circumstances we all get more or less responsive to our surroundings . .
why in certain periods we are more alert than in others? . . eehmm . . as far as women are concerned, I think it has a lot to do with our menstrual cycles . . but you see, this is a very circumscribed understanding . . i'm in the dark as far as a bigger picture goes . .

what is insight? . . i think that 'insight' is previously unacknowledged knowledge . . it's 'silent' knowledge that we gradually accumulate but not necessarily mentally recognize and which, given a chance, is put to use becoming visible . .

i'm curious though, how would you answer these questions yourself??

neegula · Dec 3, 2009

rodaki said:
like dancing, if you think about it too much you are not going to move or get moved /QUOTE]

aha.... i see much more clearly now, perfect exemple..

rodaki said:

why in certain periods we are more alert than in others? . . eehmm . . as far as women are concerned, I think it has a lot to do with our menstrual cycles .

Click to expand...

so you're a woman!!! sorry, i thought you were a man!

rodaki said:

it's 'silent' knowledge that we gradually accumulate but not necessarily mentally recognize and which, given a chance, is put to use becoming visible . .

Click to expand...

ahaaa.. i agree and need time to digest really this you wrote, for language and subject...
for now:
?it is this "giving a chance".. saying YES or no to "opportunities" that life gives us to go through...?
?accepting love for our selves?
?being in peace with practical affairs and inner reality we live -with us and so with All?---but illusion runs fast among humans...
?detachment?

rodaki said:

i'm curious though, how would you answer these questions yourself??

Click to expand...

could you give me another 40 years to think it over..?...

i think there is, most of times, a karmic reason for all this (being awake, alert, and how much awake, close to our Real nature), but i don't accept totally the "excuse" of karmic reasons for i think it takes us away from responsability of being true.

anyway, i don't believe it is "simply" a matter of will. of course will has such an importance into our spiritual lives, but first knowing what one wants it is also basic.
thank you for sharing

i don't know myself if i have clear answers, that's also why i treasure so much yours...
maybe the meaning of all this it is that i have to look within myself more than what i'm doing... but i see that "good" connexions are made also to share all of this spoken.:bows:

rodaki · Dec 4, 2009

neegula said:
so you're a woman!!! sorry, i thought you were a man!

that's ok, although it's kinda weird realizing that i come off as male :rofl:

could you give me another 40 years to think it over..?.

40 years?? no
. . but you got 40' . . (just kidding

)

i think there is, most of times, a karmic reason for all this (being awake, alert, and how much awake, close to our Real nature), but i don't accept totally the "excuse" of karmic reasons for i think it takes us away from responsability of being true.

anyway, i don't believe it is "simply" a matter of will. of course will has such an importance into our spiritual lives, but first knowing what one wants it is also basic.
thank you for sharing

i don't get very much the 'karmic' part in this . . will, I've got more experience with (not in the best way, huge can of worms :brickwall:

) . . I think knowing when it's time for our will to take charge and when not is a big issue . . the whole Yi is about that

but you're giving me a chance to talk about a reading I had recently with this

maybe the meaning of all this it is that i have to look within myself more than what i'm doing...

I don't know if you followed Mike's recent thread on 25 and quantum physics but there was talk there of 25 being like a wave that collapses under close scrutiny

that's an idea that i don't always understand (it comes and goes) but my reading (25.1,4,5 to 23 on my professional future) seemed to portray the collapse of such a 25 wave . . 25 for me is being . . just being, spontaneously, with no preconceptions or expectations. The lines that lead to its 23 talk to me of that way of life collapsing . .
line1: the non-conditioned spontaneous expression can always be trusted
line4: this kind of being in the world is an inner nature we cannot loose even if we turn our backs to it
line5: when this way gets burdened and impaired, do not try to fix it in willful ways (don't take medicine for it)

line5 in this reading is also related to 20.5 (following Bradford's transitional method) where as you suggested, we look more into our selves . . my guess is that looking more inwards doesn't help very much in being 25 because we get burdened already with preconceptions and expectations . . so i don't think looking in helps that much

but what does?? i can't say for sure . . but every time i think about it the last few days my mind goes to a friend of mine, a composer, who has managed to create an amazing give-and-take with everything that enters her life . . i don't know how she does it and every time i ask she says it's very simple . . just do what you got to do and don't fret too much about it ( yes, it seems to be that simple

)
so . . I don't know really . . maybe 'less is more'?? (that could be 61.5 too . .)
anyway, i think i should stop, i'm reaching rambling point again :blush:

(plus i've got this very same friend coming over for dinner tonight and i've got to do groceries

will interrogate her more tonight and report back new findings

)

neegula · Dec 4, 2009

rodaki said:
I don't know if you follwed Mike's recent thread on 25 and quantum physics but there was talk there of 25 being like a wave that collapses under close scrutiny

it's bit hard finding it, please, can you suggest where is it?

rodaki said:
just being, spontaneously, with no preconceptions or expectations. .

line5 in this reading is also related to 20.5 (following Bradford's transitional method)

just do what you got to do and don't fret too much about it ( yes, it seems to be that simple )
so . . I don't know really . . maybe 'less is more'?? (that could be 61.5 too . .)
anyway, i think i should stop, i'm reaching rambling point again (plus i've got this very same friend coming over for dinner tonight and i've got to do groceries will interrogate her more tonight and report back new findings )

thank you for having reminded me Simplicity in Being
your words were very dear to me

and it was very sweet going and reading hex 25, very sweet one indeed.

what does it mean Bradford's transitional method? you pass a changing line of first hex to the same line in derivated one?
and, who is bradford?!!! one of friends here in community or an ancient writer?!

rodaki · Dec 4, 2009

the 25 thread is here . .

oooh, Bradford is alive and among us . . he has done his own translation of the Yi ( check out http://www.hermetica.info/)

and 'transitional method' is a way he uses to read multiple lines, where you follow the lines' 'inner journey' from hexagram to hexagram until you reach your relating one. For example, in my reading, transitional hexagrams are:
25.1>12, then 12.4>20 and 20.5>23
(uhm, i hope it's clear how they come up, I'm not very good in explaining this

)
gotta run!!)

jesed · Dec 4, 2009

neegula said:
i think there is, most of times, a karmic reason for all this (being awake, alert, and how much awake, close to our Real nature), but i don't accept totally the "excuse" of karmic reasons for i think it takes us away from responsability of being true.

Now this is a great comment and issue. Because, when one is aware of the laws of Karma and Dhrama (they work together), then one takes even more responsability for his/her acts. Karma -the real understanding of it- is never an excuse, but a greater understanding of personal responsability in the present acts.

No matter what you have done in the past -acts that had lead you to this present situation, by Karma- you have the responsability to enmed past errors, to achieve greater enlightment in the present and to avoid future pain for you and others.

But it is true...most people misunderstand "Karma" as an excuse to avoid responsability.

Thanks for pointing that, Neegula .:bows:

jesed · Dec 4, 2009

neegula said:
and, who is bradford?!!! one of friends here in community or an ancient writer?!

I'll go ALL-IN that he is an ancient writer, just reincarnated as a good friend in this community

Check his site, I guess you'll enjoy it. His translation of the Yijing is a "must have". One of the best, in my opinion.
http://hermetica.info/

Best

neegula · Dec 4, 2009

rodaki said:
the 25 thread is here . .

oooh, Bradford is alive and among us . . he has done his own translation of the Yi ( check out http://www.hermetica.info/)

and 'transitional method' is a way he uses to read multiple lines, where you follow the lines' 'inner journey' from hexagram to hexagram until you reach your relating one. For example, in my reading, transitional hexagrams are:
25.1>12, then 12.4>20 and 20.5>23
(uhm, i hope it's clear how they come up, I'm not very good in explaining this )
gotta run!!)

aaah, ok, i got it! very nice and "interesting"...
i guess i'll do next time i need divinating; thank to you, and to Bradford

and thanks for the links

(p.s. i started days ago reading the topic of entanglement, then i lost it :blush:

i will get it easily again now

)

neegula · Dec 4, 2009

jesed said:
I'll go ALL-IN that he is an ancient writer, just reincarnated as a good friend in this community

neegula · Dec 5, 2009

jesed said:
But it is true...most people misunderstand "Karma" as an excuse to avoid responsability.

Thanks for pointing that, Neegula .:bows:

after what you wrote, i'm very sure you didn't misunderstand what i meant

thanks for your intervention, jesed:bows: :hug:

there's a new girl in town (also - cledonomany and lateral divination)

jesed

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