Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
‘Embrace the wilderness, ford the river. Do not forsake those far away. Friends depart. The course is held at the centre.’
‘Float across the river with a big gourd. No drowning, cowries lost. Reward in mid journey.’
不遐遺朋亡
Not distant/abandoning leaving-behind/abandoning friends vanished.
‘It is lost, it is lost! (其亡其亡)
Tie it to the bushy mulberry tree.’
Good gracious Hilary, are you all of a sudden going all 'modernist' (Zhouyi-like) on us ? Or are you - as I suspect - exploring the complexities / difficulties of translating and interpreting a very old oracle, where many of the words, meanings, even the Yi's usage has changed over centuries?I’m persuaded that this gourd is part of the line, not just a scholar’s fever-dream. It’s an exquisite image of ...
I took a quick gander at this story from the Zhangzi. What stood out for me is when Little Quail describes his landing (at the end of his short flight):the ... Zhuangzi .... describes ‘the difference between small and great’ – for instance, when a little fluttering quail laughs at the great Peng bird that soars above ... unable to grasp its reality .... (And) since Hexagram 11 is a time when ‘small goes, great comes’, this should spark our interest ....
Good gracious Hilary, are you all of a sudden going all 'modernist' (Zhouyi-like) on us ? Or are you - as I suspect - exploring the complexities / difficulties of translating and interpreting a very old oracle, where many of the words, meanings, even the Yi's usage has changed over centuries?
I looked at a few other translations of this line:
Hatcher's 'Embrace wilderness, useful to cross the river without a boat'.Hilary's, 'Embrace emptiness .... friends disappear'. Richard Rutt's 'Dry gourds gird (strapped) on, for fording the He (a river) ....'For me each of these (and others I assume), carry different images and different meanings (great and/or small). If I were to do a 'comparitive interpretation' using each (standing on it's own), I'd most likely come up with a wide variety of meanings and responses.
I also looked at Wilhelm's 11.2:
"Bearing with the uncultured in gentleness, fording the river with resolution, Not neglecting what is distant; not regarding one’s companions: Thus one may manage to walk in the middle."... and then I looked at his explanation (comments / commenary) about this line, which reads, in part:
"The trigram Ch’ien (Heaven) encloses K’un (Earth), (heaven) bears the uncultured (earth) in gentleness. The line ... is the lowest line in (11's) nuclear trigram Tui, water. It must step over those that lie between, in order to unite with the six (line) in the fifth place .... "
I do appreciate and make use of the trigrams in working with the Yi - and I also very much appreciate that Wilhelm and the Confucians also did (and maybe still do) this. But even setting aside any Bronze Age vs. Wisdom Book differences in interpretation, his explanation here is, for me, a bit of 'a stretch':
Wilhelm says Heaven, as the lower trigram, encloses Earth, the upper trigram? And that the Earth is uncultured (and not just wild as others may be suggesting). And heaven 'bares' (puts up with) this using 'gentleness'? And ... Wilhelm turns the trigram for a still Lake (11's lower nuclear trigram) into a river that must be stepped (crossed) over .... ?
What is also odd is that in Wilhelm's 11.2, one should 'not regard' one's companions (meaning what? ... let them drown? leave them behind?) whereas Hilary and others just say that friends are no longer present (maybe that they are not a part of our 'crossing'?); and Rutt indicates that part of the reason we're strapping on the gourds is so we don't lose our footing nor our friends (how wise of him!).
As I said ... I find much that we might / can / should question about Wilhelm's translation and interpetation of 11.2.
...
I took a quick gander at this story from the Zhangzi. What stood out for me is when Little Quail describes his landing (at the end of his short flight):
'I ... then fall down, flopping and flailing in the midst of the weeds and brambles.'
For me this points out one imporant difference between 'small' and 'great' - that it's not necessarily about quantity (how big one is, how far one travels, how much status or power one has), but it is (or can be) about quality: e.g. how and why do we fly, and how do we land, and is what we're doing - in big or small ways - appropriate for the task / situation at hand.
A few weeks ago I was taking a beach walk (which I do 3-5 times a week) and I saw, for the first time, a Great Blue heron 'flying' in the shallows (but not really a 'crane calling in the shadows').
I usually see them either flying some distance, or standing still (and taking only a few steps), but here one was actually flying short distances, 15-20 feet, through the shallows. (These steps reminded me of the 'steps' we saw astronauts take on TV during the early Moon landings!)
And ... at certain times of the year I can also see hundreds, thousands of snow geese overhead making their 3,000 mi (4,800 km) migration along the Pacific Flyaway, between their wintering areas and the Arctic tundra.
So, in comparing these two 'flights' I clearly see that one is far, far (far) longer than the other, but I don't get that either of them is 'greater' or 'smaller' in terms of being appropiate and useful for what they (the geese or the heron) are trying to achieve.
Finally, Hilary's post brings to mind the often-posted questions: which 'translation' is right, or good, or correct and also, how do we wade through this vast sea (or cross this raging river) of many and varied translations?
Love many
Trust few
Learn to paddle your own canoe
That one would be gorgeous for my image flash cards! I'd really like to get hold of Crouch's translation, but the ebook version is not available on Amazon for purchase in Indonesia. And he doesn't make his email or other contacts readily available. I know he used to be a member here, but I don't think he's been around for a while.I see you didn't find Freeman Crouch's version:
"Leopards gushing in: the wall is levelled.
The Yellow River is not far behind us.
Cowries disappear - the take will be awarded on the road to the centre."
I normally feel much the same way about the explanations in Wilhelm Book III. A more intuitive, broader view of trigrams still works, though - seeing it as more like a picture book ....
All this comes from just two words: 'friends gone'. Or possibly 'cowries gone'. 'Gone', wang, means 'disappeared' but also 'dead and gone'. So ... choose what makes sense to you in the context.
With an empty gourd, of course .
So you've read the Johnny Two-Rivers commentary too!!This reminds me, many years ago I took a whitewater rafting trip down the American River in California. At one particularly challenging set of rapids, our guides climbed a large boulder overlooking the rapids so they could survey and study the rapids - to determine the best way through them; and of course we wore our life jackets the entire time we were running rapids.
Nope, nor Crouch's.So you've read the Johnny Two-Rivers commentary too!!
Maybe you'd really just rather have ebooks, but as far as I can tell it's also in paperback:I'd really like to get hold of Crouch's translation, but the ebook version is not available on Amazon for purchase in Indonesia.
I could get the book, but it would come to well over $35 with shipping to Indonesia, while the ebook costs $4. I can't really justify that much for yet another translation of the Yi right now. Also, Freeman very kindly makes the full text of the book available at Google Books:Maybe you'd really just rather have ebooks, but as far as I can tell it's also in paperback:
I Ching: The Chameleon Book: Crouch, Freeman: 9780975964002: Amazon.com: Books
I Ching: The Chameleon Book [Crouch, Freeman] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. I Ching: The Chameleon Bookwww.amazon.com
(For all I know, maybe you can't access that page, either - I've seen things on Youtube that are blocked from playing in America; does Amazon do the same thing?)
See your email .That one would be gorgeous for my image flash cards! I'd really like to get hold of Crouch's translation, but the ebook version is not available on Amazon for purchase in Indonesia. And he doesn't make his email or other contacts readily available. I know he used to be a member here, but I don't think he's been around for a while.
I'd really like to get hold of Crouch's translation ....
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).