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Thread: Hexagram 2

  1. #11

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    Charly thanks so much for sharing. This is really great information. There is a lot to soak in but I am enjoying it Some of the characters spark questions or comments from me..


    I like the shape of this character. It's like Zoro's mark. What does the ...'s mean?
    zhi1: ...'s / him / her / it /

    I am starting to get familiar with the 2 lines at the top of this character from Bu:
    zhen1: perseverant / chaste / virtuous // divination / omen /

    This one looks like thunder and I am thinking about what Lise said in the Gender Association Thread. I don't actually understand the origin of this one, but I know that Thunder represents the First Son:
    zi3: son / child / seed / egg / fruit / young /

    Is there a bird inside of there? I was just thinking that the South is associated with the Pheonix:
    nan2: south /

    This could be a close up picture of a bone crack in a tortious shell. Still going off of the Animal associated with the Direction:
    bei3: north /

    Snail shells on a string? Or two chicks hanging out?:
    peng2: friend /pal /acquaintance (2)

    This gives a good feeling:
    ji2: lucky / fortunate /

    (3) Better VITAL & MATURE than RIGID or UNMATURE (of course, for getting LOVERS)
    I agree!

    Nothing passive with earth fecundity.
    Ancient chinese people see females biologically stronger than males: «women defeat men like water suffocates fire».
    Ch.
    Bruce and yourself have been discussing this, but I am not sure I have a complete handle on them being stronger. Physically because they bare children? Or in another way (or all ways)?

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by charly View Post
    Maybe LiSe might clarify:

    http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_1-16/01-02.htm

    Yours,

    Charly
    Here is what I was thinking about with the Thunder. Your picture wouldn't transfer over, but Lise's link did.

    Take care!

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by answeredquestions View Post
    [Nothing passive with earth fecundity.
    Ancient chinese people see females biologically stronger than males: «women defeat men like water suffocates fire». Ch.]

    Bruce and yourself have been discussing this, but I am not sure I have a complete handle on them being stronger. Physically because they bare children? Or in another way (or all ways)?
    Hi, Courtney:

    Dialogs with the so called Yellow Emperor were not only in medical treatises but also in maybe less respectable treatises about JOINING THE YIN WITH THE YANG. Say, inner alchemy or bedchamber arts.

    One of the later edition of an early text is the SUNU JING or Classic of the Plain Girl. In the firsts paragraphs she said to the Yellow Emperor:


    素女曰:
    SU NU SAYS:
    The Plain Girl said:
    Miss Naural said:

    ...

    夫女之勝男,
    IMHO (1) GIRLS' DEFEATING MEN,
    IMHO Men defeating of girls,
    Girls defeat men,

    猶水之滅火。
    AS WATER'S SUFFOCATING FIRE
    Is like the fire suffocation of water.
    Just as water suffocates fire.
    Source of the chinese text: http://folkdoc.com/

    Of course, it was speaking of female sexual superiority.
    I like the shape of this character. It's like Zoro's mark. What does the ...'s mean?
    A zhi B means A's B or the B of A, like in the Zorro's Mark.
    At the end, zhi means IT, like in CATCH IT.

    I am starting to get familiar with the 2 lines at the top of this character from Bu:
    The upper component is BU or PU, which means TO DIVINE / TO CONSULT THE ORACLE /TO FORETELL, it has an itiphallic shape, at least for westerners.
    The lower component is BEI, SELLS / COWRIES / MONEY / TREASURE / VALUABLE / PRECIOUS and depicts a sacred vessel or piled cowry shells, used as money and seen by ancient chineses as FEMALE GENITALIA. The pierced cowries adquired some reminiscences.

    The character zhen, that anciently meant DIVINATION / OMEN adquired later the meaning of WOMEN CHASTITY / VIRTUOUS / PERSEVERANT.

    THE FEMALE COMPONENT ALWAYS HAD MORE WEIGHT, MAYBE MEANING «FEMALE SUPERIORITY»

    This one looks like thunder and I am thinking about what Lise said in the Gender Association Thread. I don't actually understand the origin of this one, but I know that Thunder represents the First Son:
    It means SON / CHILD / YOUNG / SEED / FRUIT / A NOBLE of LOWER RANK / and much more. It depicts a BABY WITH WRAPPED LEGS, like Swee Pea. I believe that can be used as an euphemism for the male member, in which case can be read as MEN ARE BUT BIG CHILDREN.

    Is there a bird inside of there? I was just thinking that the South is associated with the Pheonix:
    I dont see the BIRD, I see a LAMB, but not sure.

    This could be a close up picture of a bone crack in a tortious shell. Still going off of the Animal associated with the Direction:
    I don't remember how bone cracks looked like. I see a sat person with the back against a bank. Chinese houses were built back to the North.

    Snail shells on a string? Or two chicks hanging out?:
    It's said that means FRIEND / PAL and that depicts TWO STRINGS OF COWRIES. Nowadays FRIEN needs a two-syllabe word. Peng must have another senses, among it, LONGEVITY = SEXUAL meanings.

    This gives a good feeling:
    It means LUCKY / PROPITIOUS / GOOD / FORTUNATE. I believe that it depicts a PHALLIC SHRINE BUILT ON A HOLE IN THE SOIL. Maybe can be read so: GOOD LIKE TO JOIN THE YIN WITH THE YANG. Another character for GOOD depicts a WOMAN with a CHILD. More reputable.

    As you can see, always in the nitch!


    All the best,


    Charly

    P.D.
    (1) IMHO: 夫 is a humble introduction, the girls was speaking to a High Ruler, to a so called Emperor.

    I must check the etymologies, my memory is as weak as my knowledge.
    Ch.

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  5. #14

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    I got some TCM books a while back and cannot bring myself to soak in the words just yet. I know very little about the Yellow Emperor, but hopefully one day will branch out and learn more about accupuncture and the meridians etc.

    This Yijing stuff, from the ground up, has me completely captivated. I really appreciate your research and sharing Charly. and keep the nitch going!

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  7. #15
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    Thanks, very much, Courtney:

    The SUNU JING was a reconstruction of early chinese handbooks made by Ye Dehui (1864/1927)using fragments that had survived quoted in the IshimpO, a japanese medical book. (1)

    As a consequence of it, the guy lost his intellectual reputation, I believe. But the reconstruction was not a forgery.

    Similar texts appeared later among the medical texts of the Mawangdui Silk Manuscripts which were translated by Donald Harper and also in part by Thomas Cleary. (2)(3)

    Some people liked to go to the tomb with good literature for enjoying in the afterlife: philosophy, the Lao Zi, the Zhou Yi, medical text. Maybe the more wealthy on JOINING YIN / YANG with it promise of LONG LIFE and even, the jackpot, IMMORTALITY!

    Take care,


    Charly


    ___________________________
    (1) For something about Yeh Dehui and the Classic of the Plain Girl, can see:
    L.A.Rocha: Xing the discourse of sex and human nature in modern China, in «Historicising Gender and Sexuality» edited by Kevin P. Murphy & Jennifer M. Spear. Available in Google Books.

    (2) He yinyang 和陰陽, translated by Donald Harper.
    See Livia Kohn: Chinese Healing Excercises, available for online reading at:
    http://es.scribd.com/doc/23492282/Chinese-Healing

    (3)
    Harper provides an annotated translation of the Mawangdui medical manuscripts ... [that] are untitled, but have been assigned titles by Chinese scholars on the basis of their contents.

    MS-1(the first manuscript) consists of five sections:
    • Zubi shiyi mai jiujing or "Cauterization Canon of the Eleven Vessels of the Foot and Forearm" (1.1),
    • Yin Yang shiyi mai jiujing or "Cauterization Canon of the Eleven Yin and Yang Vessels" (1.2),
    • Maifa or "Model of the Vessels" (1.3),
    • Yin Yang mai sihou or "Death Signs of the Yin and Yang Vessels" (1.4),
    • Wushier bingfang or "Recipes for Fifty-two Ailments" (1.5).


    MS-2 has two parts:
    • Quegu shi qi "Eliminating Grain and Eatin g Vapor" (2.1),
    • Daoyin tu "Drawings of Guiding and Pulling" (2.2).


    MS-3 and MS-4 are compendia of recipes:
    • Yangsheng fang or "Recipes for Nurturing Life"
    • Zaliao fang or "Recipes for Various Cures."


    MS-5:
    Taichan shu , the "Book of the Generation of the Fetus," is specifically concerned with pregnancy.

    MS-6 and MS-7 consist of four texts on various subjects:

    • Shiwen or "Ten Questions" (6.1),
    • He Yin Yang or "Harmonizing Yin and Yang" (6.2),
    • Zajin fang or "Recipes for Various Charms" (7.1),
    • Tianxia zhidao tan or "Discussion of the Culminant Way in Under-heaven" (7.2).


    From a review by Lisa Raphals published in China Review International 7.2 (Fall 2000)
    Another quotation:
    Unlike Jinkui yaolue regarding ´sexual dreams´as a symptom of women´s only Zhouhou Fang sugests that both men and women may dream of sex with either human being or ´demons´. These problems can be solved by herbal formulas, acupuncture or moxibustion.

    Source: Hsiu Fen Chen: Dreaming sex with demons
    (The link doesn´t function but here another from the same author:
    http://128.220.160.199/journals/late...32.1.chen.html
    Worse the medicime than the illness.

    Ch.
    Last edited by charly; March 24th, 2012 at 04:16 AM.

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  9. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by charly View Post
    Some people liked to go to the tomb with good literature for enjoying in the afterlife: philosophy, the Lao Zi, the Zhou Yi, medical text. Maybe the more wealthy on JOINING YIN / YANG with it promise of LONG LIFE and even, the jackpot, IMMORTALITY!
    What literature would you take?

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by answeredquestions View Post
    What literature would you take?
    For the afterlife, maybe, comics.
    Ch.

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  13. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by charly View Post
    For the afterlife, maybe, comics.
    Ch.
    Nice choice.

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  15. #19
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  16. #20

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    From the look on her face, I think she is actually thinking about doing it.

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