Spiritual

meng · May 7, 2013

This word, spiritual, is so often used, and I hardly know what to make of it anymore. It used to be easy to point to what is spiritual and what is not, but as time passes, the word strikes me as anemic of any real meaning, other than as a word we use to describe what we have no other word for or meaning of. Furthermore, I view most of its uses to be somewhat saturated with exactly what it is claimed not to possess: ego drive. The Christian community uses a generic term for it: spiritual pride (proud of being spiritual). But what is spiritual that we know of?

Not to count angels, dancing on the head of a pin, but I think it's important to make a distinction between ones soul and ones spirit, if indeed we even have a spirit, other than sharing in the Great Spirit. An exception, to me, would be when spirit is used to describe the deeper and central nature of someone or something, i.e. he understands the spirit of the law. But is that being spiritual?

One thing I hear a lot is, I'm not religious, but I'm very spiritual! What does that really mean, that you're open to all beliefs? If you select only one, that becomes a religion.

I have my own remembrances of what I could define as spiritual experiences, but I can't ever be sure that's what they were, I can only vividly recall the feeling of it. Is spiritual a feeling? Or is it knowledge? If so, what knowledge is spiritual, other than all knowledge together - the reality of everything. Is that the definition of spiritual?

What does the word spiritual mean to you?

bradford · May 8, 2013

I made a bumper sticker once that said "Spirit is a Verb."
That just seemed to annoy people, which was OK.
I like the word best in the sense it's used in "spirited horse."
Of course the root of the term is breath, as in inspiration.

littlebuddha · May 8, 2013

Like you, i most often hear it in the context of 'being spiritual" vs being religious, where the former basically means the lack of traditional religious observance. I have no idea what it originally meant, but if looked at etymologically, presumably it would denote a person who draws in the Spirit (whatever it stands for) from the upper worlds (?) and imbues the material with it, raising up in that way both their own consciousness and whatever they are doing at the time...
In my maternal tongue ( one of the Slavic languages) you'd avoid the word as a plague as it's basically goes used as an euphemism for a loonie - when you see someone unshaved & probably un- showered hanging around temples with that strange shine in their eyes, who on every "thank you" answers with "thanks to dear God"... A condition which here many experience after a severe trauma ... that's where you'd use "very spiritual" so to avoid saying something way worse.
I've heard "spiritual" used interchangeably with promiscuity, drug abuse... and what not. I don't use it anymore, for myself - i say to which denomination i belong nominally and what kind of meditation and (for the lack of the better wording) "occult practice" i do, and that's it, others i avoid "categorizing"

meng · May 8, 2013

bradford said:
Of course the root of the term is breath, as in inspiration.

Would you say this resembles Xun?

bradford · May 8, 2013

meng said:
Would you say this resembles Xun?

Closer to Qi with its more materialistic,non-otherworldly implications
Lots of languages have words that simultaneously mean breath and spirit,
Ruach in Hebrew, Pneuma in Greek, Spiritus in Latin, Prana in Sanskrit.

I personally am really bored with the idea that spirits come to earth to
cloak themselves in matter and flesh. Much prefer this:

You did not come into this world
You came out of it
Like a wave comes out of the ocean
You are not a stranger here.
Alan Watts

meng · May 8, 2013

Yes, I'm familiar with breath as Prana, or the idea of breathing life into Adam et al. Prana is also life force, or Qi, as you've said.

So, Spirit is no thing, not a noun, but movement, or inspiration, penetration. Sounds like Xun to me.

Thanks

meng · May 8, 2013

bradford said:
Much prefer this:

You did not come into this world
You came out of it
Like a wave comes out of the ocean
You are not a stranger here.
Alan Watts

Seems to be what every natural creature does. But to humans, we seem an exception.

bradford · May 8, 2013

meng said:
Sounds like Xun to me.
Thanks

I'm more inclined to think of Xun as one of eight ways that spirit behaves,
but I would agree that it illustrates much.

meng · May 8, 2013

i n t e r e s t i n g

meng · May 9, 2013

After some reflection, I like this. It's not too far from what I tried to say with the 'the spirit of the law' example. But in Yi terms, it would be the spirit (or core nature) of heaven, earth, fire, water, lake, wood/wind, mountain and thunder.

This is quite a different looking spiritual, though between heaven and wind, its wings still remain intact. I mean the kind of wings which enable, energize or inspire movement; not the kind of superior position to the physical world, as though the earth is an inferior place or state of mind, but as a place where the spirits as energies merge and work, sometimes unpredictably.

meng · Aug 10, 2013

I've decided what I need, above every ideal and spiritual notion.

I need a sexy and very naughty mature Latino chica.

I knew that since I first saw Natalie Wood in West Side Story.

Oh, why didn't I listen to my heart's desire!

Pardon my humor relief therapy.

No, but really, I need a Latino chica.

For spiritual reasons, of course.

meng · Aug 10, 2013

The reason I'm only half kidding is that sometimes it seems life is over, spent, and no change left over. The Bible even says, without a vision the people perish. My trouble has been that I could no longer find a vision. Motivation literally shrank as defeat consumed me. All I have left are thoughts and some garden work, and sometimes making music of sorts. Even my sexual interests are pretty jaded. And when I saw an image of a particular Latino sexy woman, well, it just hit that magic spot within me, and for that moment, I had a vision again. One can call it a fantasy, and that would be true, but I've also dreamt of holding her in the shallow surf at sunset, for years. I call that inspiration. Jung would call that my Anima Projection.

meng · Aug 11, 2013

More projections, or visions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8V6kPlVUFs

Lilly-La · Sep 14, 2013

meng said:
No, but really, I need a Latino chica.

For spiritual reasons, of course.

So what has happened..? I am curious

sooo · Sep 15, 2013

Hi Lilly,

Much has happened since I posted this thread to shake up and wake up my life, but my anima chica remains a mystery.

svenrus · Sep 15, 2013

There's lot of spirituality hidden in this short movie:

<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10201985850671508" width="640" height="480" frameborder="0"></iframe>

If the link doesn' function I'll try another solution. Have to test it before certain....

svenrus · Sep 15, 2013

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10201985850671508

Here it should be anyway

anemos · Sep 15, 2013

svenrus said:
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10201985850671508

Here it should be anyway

Thank you for sharing that !!! Without going into details it had a certain significance for me. Was looking the last days for a sign regarding a special issue , of how to deal with it. That video clear up things. I asked Yi , now what Yi said : h4... that's the spirit !!

thank again. Be well
Truly appreciate it :bows:

sooo · Sep 16, 2013

Is blissful the same as spiritual? Some Buddhists would argue it's still Samsara.

anemos · Sep 16, 2013

My most “spiritual” experiences had to do with intense pain and a h59 state. Dictionaries cite antonyms to the word “blissful” that are not in accord with that experience, but I felt blessed while, in the same time, that “I” was dissolved. It’s a mixed feeling.

That dispersion –which can have various faces- is , imo, accompanied with a sense of death and an instant (maybe sort-lived nirvana) We going through uncountable rides on that “wheel of life” , down here , in the mundane world , which sometime we forget while preoccupied with the other, the higher one.

Becoming “spiritual” is not the goal, imho, it’s the by-product of an attitude towards ourselves, others and life itself. And whether or “soul” survive us or not, whether we’ll in another realm or not, we are part of that eternity, collective unconscious, or what other label is appropriate. We leave our legacy here and that is spiritual no matter if we are nice and kind or mean and resentful. The woman in the video posted earlier according to the “definitions” of what is spiritual, she is not, one might say. How much must he suffer, I thought to behave like that in a small boy; How many times I have been like her, I asked myself. And that kind man who helped the boy, to how many like that woman owes his kind disposition.

We don’t live in void; we affect and are affected and this is why I see an association between h59 and this discussion .Whether blissfulness is because of illusions or the dispersion of them its not always clear. Maybe freeing ourselves from illusions its an illusion itself… who knows? Its like the story of the emperor’s clothes. Sometime we think we are dressed and we are naked, sometimes we are naked and we thing we are dressed and sometimes we are somewhere in between.

Going through some h59 times. Things are collapsing –inside and outside. Some say 59 is also about death . It feeling like you need to make your “soul” lighter for that transition. To leave things back, to reconcile, to say goodbyes and thank you. I think “spiritual” are the little mundane things, nothing biggie, like the feather of 53.6. I was thinking for some time “what is that feather, what that goose leaves behind, who can tell us”. I don’t think the goose knows, and ultimately I don’t think she really cares. It doesn't matter. For some the feather has a value. That's all.

sooo · Sep 16, 2013

Blissful is bliss unaccomplished. It's like saying, like bliss. But it isn't bliss. Bliss would have no urge or reason to say blissful.

:stir:

My prior comment was more specifically regarding music which induces blissful states, and questioning: is this spiritual?

anemos · Sep 16, 2013

In another place, the same video was posted with some additional information. It is a commercial of a telecom. company

http://gawker.com/this-three-minute-commercial-puts-full-length-hollywood-1309506149

Is this the same movie ? yes and no

at that place a prof ask us to measure the effect -in terms of time- have some actions similar to that video- in a class campaign... "how can we measure it ?" is the question everybody asks. Curious for the extra guidance he will give us

I have no definition for the word "spiritual" so there is no way to answer the question. Actually I don't think we can measure and make comparisons.It feels strange to say "this IS spiritual" - "this is NOT spiritual" , especially without a "definition". Additional, my feeling is that when you call it spiritual it seize to be. As I said earlier, its not something we do, it happens and the effect of it , I fail to see how it can be measurable. The experiences i was referring to, they happened to me; I did nothing.. i think.

anemos · Sep 16, 2013

the other day a friend of mine share with us what her son asked her. They have a bed-time ritual and they sing together the "silent night"... ( for more than a year every day) . So , he asked her : "where the songs go after we sung them ? " I found it a beautiful question and reminds me of hex 59 too

sooo · Sep 17, 2013

love that

and from where do they arise?

sooo · Sep 17, 2013

I've participated in worshiping the worship
and have been skeptical ever since.
But when the fire's turned up
my worship rises with it.

Spiritual, or psychological?

anemos · Sep 17, 2013

sooo said:
and from where do they arise?

From the body and the soul and the spirit of those two and of all the others involved directly or indirectly ... this is how it feels.

they are bonding by singing a Christmas song every night and it seems they don't care that it is not Christmas.

sooo · Sep 19, 2013

anemos said:
From the body and the soul and the spirit of those two and of all the others involved directly or indirectly ... this is how it feels.

they are bonding by singing a Christmas song every night and it seems they don't care that it is not Christmas.

From where does it arise in them?

Same place it goes to, I'd think. But don't ask me where that is; but wherever it is, I view there as being Spirit. Nothing is spiritual but Spirit, even though I can't define it or give it a name. It's like when Jesus asked, why call me good? There's none good but God. Course there was intended humor in his question too, as a daoist Jew.

anemos · Sep 19, 2013

yes, same place. That's how it feels to me. An interesting cycle ,if i try to visualize it

Playing with definitions always is a good exercise to me. because sooner or later i reach at the edge of what I know and at this point the need to define it evaporates.

i tried to made a mental list of what is Not to "catch" it from another perspective... still an empty one. that's ok ( putting aside my curiosity of course , lol) Doubting, questioning, asking,searching for meanings its what keeps the "mind" free and open. This is why I had to laugh with the hex 4 I got. That's the spirit ... at least to me... today...

Jesus was a rascal ... saying that with respect .

Tohpol · Sep 19, 2013

May the Universe send you a suitably latino chica to curl up with this winter. As Jesus would no doubt concur, sometimes a bit of rascally living is essential for kick-starting the fire of new possibilities.

Raising a glass to anima chica.

sooo · Sep 19, 2013

Hear, hear!

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