heisenberg?

TygerChild · Feb 19, 2014

I have posed this question before, but I still wonder about it.

You have a situation. You formulate a question. You receive an answer.

Your very observation of the answer affects the situation, whatever you do, or don't do.

There are consequences. In terms of your thinking, mood, outside events.

Thus the situation is altered for a number of reasons.

If you didn't ask the initial question, read and study the response from I-ching, etc etc,

what would the circumstance then develop into, be?

Can the I-ching itself determine what happens?

Trojina · Feb 19, 2014

you know what....this keeps happening lately...all of a sudden people are posting on the wrong part of the forum. It's become a bit of a joke as I point out to a person with moderation powers that in fact there are socks in the underwear drawer.

So this is not a shared reading...not a reading where you post Yi's answer and ask for views, it is a general discussion question and so belongs in 'Exploring Divination'. Ask a moderator to move it for you.

It is an interesting question.

Trojina · Feb 19, 2014

it may be people find the Exploring Divination section a bit intimidating......but the more people who post there the less intimidating it gets

TygerChild · Feb 19, 2014

Oh dear. sorry about that. you're right. I will try to find a moderator.

Trojina · Feb 19, 2014

it's a brilliant question though....worth being moved for

Trojina · Feb 19, 2014

It's actually quite a deep question you ask.....so I am going to stick with the simple bit. Potentially there could be a lot of academic discussion about this but I'm not feeling clever today

Can the I-ching itself determine what happens?

Well not all by itself. We interact with it, change our viewpoints and that changes things doesn't it ?

Someone, possibly Hilary, said readings can be 'events'. They can make you feel quite different. You can come away from a reading with a whole new slant on things. (Your hex 11 cast yesterday was potentially like that....or may appear so in time) Often Yi 'rephrases' our experiences, especially emotional ones. So if during the course of a reading our entire orientation to an issue changes then surely that will change things...won't it ?

TygerChild · Feb 19, 2014

I think you could misread reading after reading --and go zig-zagging all through life, and totally miss the point? I mean 'wheels within wheels' if you are not a very conscious person, or not very good at the interpretation stuff?

For example: If I see a pretty marble before me on my mucky carpet, that seeing of the marble (I think it is a marble), could set in stream endless ideas, feelings, and lead me to all sorts of exploratory antics in the physical world.

If asked the I-ching what the marble meant, and it said: "Peace", then I might think that meant stop worrying the marble and leave it alone.

I might then feel very upset because I have been reprimanded, or I might feel like yes, I have had a 'hug' because the marble loves me.

All of which would differently influence my mood and in turn influence what I think or do next.

In fact the feeling unconditional love proferred by the entity of the I ching might make me quite manic....and then the polar opposite might happen. I might next do a reading on this manic episode...

and I might get 'ARMY', and then think I have to hurl the marble at my psychiatrist and smack her in her Third Eye.

And then she might call the police.

TygerChild · Feb 19, 2014

I am also wondering about poking about investigating the development of a situation and how that influences how the thing progresses. A bit like digging up the roots of a plant to see how its doing? Does that, how does that, interfere with its growth?
In the same way, the true 'spiritual path' as I understand it, is the 'pathless way', and yet the I Ching's task is about giving us guidance, it is some trajectory that's established.
How does that tie together I wonder?

Trojina · Feb 19, 2014

I agree with all you say in post 7. Personally I think there are times, especially if suffering from mental overload or anxiety, IOW mentally not very well, that it can be better to put the I Ching on the shelf and take decisions the usual way.

I've known such times and think then I best helped myself through grounding activities, chores....practical things or creative things not purely mental things.

So if you find Yi's answers just wind you up, it's okay to put it back on the shelf for a few months or years.

I mean there's no hard guidelines...If it's helping use it but if you feel it's confusing you give it a rest.

svenrus · Feb 22, 2014

Heisenberg ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle This Heisenberg ?

svenrus · Feb 22, 2014

"Can the I-ching itself determine what happens? "

Isn't that where synchronization comes into question.... I remember C.G. Jung used this expression in his foreword to Wilhelms american ed. of the I ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity )

But I think I understand the question ie. if one hadn't consulted the I something else would have happened...

tomorton · Feb 23, 2014

Great question. As I see the I Ching, it can't make things happen, and it can't make us do certain things. It can't command the future or physics or the human will. In one sense, things that happen to us will happen anyway, regardless of whether we read the I or not.

But it can encourage us to take different decisions on what to consider when we're deciding what to do in a given situation and that is far more valuable than being told what will happen or what to do about it.

...life can be translucent

heisenberg?

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