Unchanging hexgrams

void · Apr 14, 2006

I thought I'd reopen this much debated subject because at the moment a few people are getting unchanging hexagrams like 19 in one thread and 30/31 in another and I'm differing quite alot from how folks here are reading them.

Like I said in the thread on Sirix's thread for me they often indicate, though not always that the thing asked about is mainly an event only within the querents consciousness. That is to say there is no particular influence affecting it from outside world. Thats not a hard and fast rule, just a personal observation I've noticed in my own stuff over the years.

So as I said in the other thread 30 unchanging would not mean for me that all is radiant in the garden, nor would 19 unchanging mean go ahead and take it. I might think 19 unchanging is more like theres a lot of kerfuffle with not alot to show at the end of it. 30 unchanging maybe that theres a smoky deadlock of addiction and dependence. To be honest I generally view unchanging hexes as not going anywhere much - maybe I'm differeing widely from how others view them ? I'd like to know. I'm not dead set in my views, but experience has shown me that.

The other day I asked how someone I am interested in would be likely to meet my interest and got 35 unchanging. Seems positive, yet I kind of know despite that appearance its probably a dead end. Yes often I see unchanging hexes as dead end. Am I wrong ? I'm open to suggestions

exnihilo · Apr 14, 2006

Here are two experiences of mine with unchanging hexes:

I once asked what I need to know about my marriage: 54

Was it another woman? No. It was definitely about the fact that I had no power in the marriage. I was, in a sense, a concubine. The answer sent chills up my spine because it was very true.

I once asked about what a professor that I wasn't getting along with thought about me: 30

I read that as something like, fiery. It was entirely true that I had been rather bold and not at all afraid to confront her about a certain issue.

19 unchanging in response to what I should DO? I honestly don't know.

peace · Apr 14, 2006

Sorry for the repeat - just posted on the wrong thread of Friends.

I agree with Void about static hexagrams.

When I get them I really think I need to examine my attitude and perspective - because if don't - I am headed in the direction it says - and it won't be easy to switch my perspective and have other outcomes. Even when people say it's a "good" hexagram - I truly don't know what that means - good for what. Usually something "good" is at the expense of other options. I personally, look at I Ching as helping to provide me with more questions to look deeper and expand the box of what I need to look at.

If you read the RL Wing interpretrations, he gives the interpretation for the static hexagram at the bottom of the page for each hexagram. They are not necessarily positive - usually worst case scenario for taking things to the extreme.

peace · Apr 14, 2006

Hi Void - Glad you're back!

Rosalie

peace · Apr 14, 2006

Thought you were with Bruce!

void · Apr 14, 2006

Rosalie I don't even recall going away anywhere, yet you are the second person to say "welcome back"

Mmm maybe I slipped up on a time warp or something, now I'm gonna get really worried if I step out on the street and the neighbours say "hey where ya been, how was the trip" lol, and then show me the postcard I sent them....

peace · Apr 14, 2006

Void - you hadn't been on the site for I don't know how long and then you said you had been withdrawing - which seemed to tell us why you were gone.

Anyway - don't get worried - you're timing is great!

void · Apr 14, 2006

Interesting Exnihilo seems sometimes unchanging hexs present a more stark/bold or somehow one dimensional answer to the question. People came up with good stuff about 19 unchanging on the other thread. Dobro said something like think of it as how you would act if an important teacher were coming to see you at home what would you do ?

Mmm Rosalie thats a good point, you mean with the unchanging hex things are going to end up one way for sure, like its already fixed, unless you have a definate change of mind about it ? Yes I think it could be like that. Or, even maybe the factors determining the outcome are so far progressed it is, as it were, 'fated' and there is not much you can do about it. Or as I said before what your asking about it mostly regarding only whats in your own mind. For instance someones asking about their ex boyfriend with whom a relationship outwardly no longer exists, all thats happening is the evolvement of the persons inner representation of that relationship and has nothing much to do anymore with what their ex's action towards them will be.

I have the Wing book and what is written about each unchanging hex used to puzzle me quite alot. Still I think its right that the fact the hex is unchanging needs particular understanding in each instance.

exnihilo · Apr 14, 2006

"Interesting Exnihilo seems sometimes unchanging hexs present a more stark/bold or somehow one dimensional answer to the question."

That's how it has always seemed to me. Sort of like, "Listen to this, NOW!" I really recall getting that 54. I knew exactly what it meant and that it wasn't about another woman.

"People came up with good stuff about 19 unchanging on the other thread. Dobro said something like think of it as how you would act if an important teacher were coming to see you at home what would you do ?"

I'd start cleaning house, getting things in order. Perhaps I'd bake a fantastic cake, make sure that I had plenty of refreshments on hand...good coffee, tea, juice, soda. I'd want to be prepared for anything. I'd want to make a good appearance.

void · Apr 14, 2006

So would I and probably vacuum and put away any embarrasing items I had lieing around,

Hmm on the other hand I might just hide or go out because part of me might just be totally freaked out by that kind of attention, mm I'd rather meet the great teacher in a cafe or something....but I guess the idea of them coming to your home is a metaphor for them really meeting your true self. That would be very frightening and may require a sudden 36 like action.

Last time I got 19 it was re a dreaded medical examination. I had lines 1,2, 3 and 4. It was spot on really..the consultant viewed me, could not complete all he wanted but had some success, 62. I guess yes in that instance I was being approached/viewed by someone with authority/knowlege all I had to do was arrive there having had a bath before hand - the sum total of my preparation in that instance.

jesed · Apr 14, 2006

Hi Void

Just in case the comment could be useful

One way to understand unchanging hexagrams is like a pure objective situation. I mean, it doesn't depend on your subjectives choices. So, the best thing to do is to adapt yourself to the objective time (while it longs)

Best wishes

void · Apr 15, 2006

Hi Jesed, seems theres many ways to view an unchanging hexagram. I agree sometimes there must be things we ask about that simply are as they are. Nothing much we do will have influence so the unchnaging hex indicates a 'stable' or even predetermined outcome by forces outside our control.

exnihilo · Apr 18, 2006

I just thought of two interesting unchanging readings I received:

First reading: "What does Mary think about X?"
- 20 unchanging

I interpreted this as "Yes. Mary has or is thinking about X." It didn't really answer the question though did it? Perhaps Mary was thinking about X but didn't, at that point, know what she thought about it. Perhaps it was all in process.

Second reading: "What does Company A think about me?"
- 20 unchanging

I interpreted this in a similar manner. Yes, Company A has thought about or is thinking about me. Again, it didn't really answer the question and like the first example perhaps Company A hadn't come to any conclusions at that point.

hmesker · Apr 18, 2006

Hexagram 20 always reminds me of Uatu The Watcher from the comic series The Fantastic Four. The Watcher is not supposed to engage in any activities - he just has the task to observe, and he is not allowed to interfere (something like the Prime Directive in Star Trek, I guess - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watcher_%28comics%29 .

Hexagram 20 is just like that, especially when there are no moving lines. Yes, Mary thinks about X, but she has no intention to do anything with it. Yes, Company A thinks about you, but at the moment they have no plans with you.

Harmen.

exnihilo · Apr 18, 2006

"Hexagram 20 is just like that, especially when there are no moving lines. Yes, Mary thinks about X, but she has no intention to do anything with it. Yes, Company A thinks about you, but at the moment they have no plans with you."

Your Uatu The Watcher idea seems right. In the case of the question asked about Mary, her thinking about it made sense. It was something you WOULD think about ONLY. There wasn't anything to be done, just thought about. It was sort of the same situation with Company A.

martin · Apr 18, 2006

My first thought when I receive an unchanging hexagram is that the IC is perhaps throwing the question back at me.
The second hexagram often seems to reflect the question and when the second hexagram is the same as the first (no changing lines) the answer (first hexagram) is .. the question.

"What does Mary think about X?" (Exnihilo's question). Hexagram 20 ..
Is the IC perhaps asking "What do you think that Mary thinks about X?"?

pakua · Apr 20, 2006

"...the IC is perhaps throwing the question back at me. "

Hi Martin,

For those of us who don't believe in an external being who is communicating with us, how would this work and what would be the point???

luz · Apr 20, 2006

Hmmm...

I think this idea of the static hexagram giving the question back to you is an interesting one. In this particular case, it seems to fit very well with 20 unchanging.. yes.. "what do *you* think?" But I would like to hear more about it, and about how it would apply in other situations..

And, Pakua, I don't think that the fact that the Yi throws the question back at you implies that the Yi is an external being. After all, giving you back a question is not very different from answering the question. It happens all the time, in all kinds of conversations. Don't you think?

andrea · Apr 20, 2006

Void, do you mean that for you, *any* unchanging hexagram suggests that there's something inherently stagnant about the situation?

Otherwise I don't see how you could interpret 35 as "probably a dead end," since (unless I'm misreading most of my sources), it usually has something to do with progress or prosperity.

I'm sorry if this seems literal-minded or naive.

void · Apr 20, 2006

Andrea, no I don't think unchanging hexagrams always mean a stagnant situation as such. But for me they can indicate a situation where nothing is going to actually transpire - in the outer world in regard to the matter. Say I'm hankering after someone, with no real evidence that they feel the same

and I ask the Yi 'how is my interest met by this person' I know from bitter experience 35 unchanging is not going to mean they think I'm the greatest. It just feels an 'empty' answer, as Martin says perhaps the question or desire being mirrored back. The relationship has no actual substance as yet, and it being locked seems theres no doorways there.

Mmm well I don't know just my feeling about unchanging hexes sometimes. I'm only going on my own experience. How do you see the unchanging hexagrams ?

peace · Apr 21, 2006

Andrea:

Although things are constantly in change - it could be that the change is sooooo slow, that it seems unmoving - or perhaps stuck. That's not necessarily a bad thing - but for awhile, things will be constant with little change.
That may be because something is in the way - like an attitude, or because external events are the way they are for many different reasons.

Rosalie

white_dog · Apr 21, 2006

What happens when the wind doesn't blow?

exnihilo · Apr 21, 2006

"For those of us who don't believe in an external being who is communicating with us, how would this work and what would be the point???"

Hi Pakua,

I tend to go with my first intuition about the reading, provided I get one. Sometimes I do not. (I think I get clearer answers when the issue is very important to me. The job issue regarding that friend of mine is very important to me and my readings seem unusually clear.) I personally have never received an unchanging hexagram that I felt, at first glance, was throwing the question back at me. When I received those unchanging 20s the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Yes, she has thought about it.", or something like that.

I don't think I really understand why the Yi would throw a question back at us. Also, if the Yi DOES do that with unchanging hexes, it doesn't ALWAYS do it. The 54 I received when I asked what I needed to know about my marriage was pretty clear and the Yi was obviously NOT throwing the question back at me.

This brings me to another question...

Does the Yi choose NOT to answer certain questions and that this may be the reason for throwing a question back at us?

frank · Apr 21, 2006

Hi Exnihilo,

Could it be that the question throwing back at us is the answer, as soon as we have the answer of that question ourselfs (say what :-D?)...?

We are not people who want every question in a box and a ribbon putted on our lap, would we?

There is somethimes a lesson to be learned in answering the question putted on your lap instead...

Just wandering
Frank

void · Apr 21, 2006

I'd not considered the Yi throwing a question back at us when receiving an unchanging hex, but now I think of it, sometimes I think it may be doing exactly that. Like more or less simply mirroring ones state/the situation at the time.

Exnihilo, in response to your question about whether the Yi would choose not to answer certain questions, yes I think it must be so. Otherwise it would be like being a captive Genii in a bottle - an image that comes increasingly to mind for some strange reason - a being doomed to serve no matter what.

Whenever we shake coins etc a hexagram results, but I don't think that means we are necessarily always answered. There are times when I sense communication is down, when answers just don't make any sense at all, and theres just no sense of connection. Some would argue there is always an answer its just we don't 'get it' ? Who knows they may be right. What do you think ?

exnihilo · Apr 21, 2006

"There are times when I sense communication is down, when answers just don't make any sense at all, and theres just no sense of connection."

I have noticed that as well. I think it was Rosada who said I was really "in the zone" with those question regarding that work related thing, and I agree. I understood them all almost immediately. Why? I don't know. It is true that it's something quite important to me though and perhaps the Yi wants me to know this information.

At other times though, I sit there thinking, "Huh?" at the answer because it doesn't seem connected at all to my question. Those are the times when I think the Yi is down and that I should try again later

"Some would argue there is always an answer its just we don't 'get it' ? Who knows they may be right. What do you think ?"

That could be possible but I really have received answers where my first response was, "Oh, it's not talking right now." and I put away the coins. The answer just seem way too unrelated to the question and yes, there's that feeling the "communication is down" as you say. You just feel it don't you?

I also sometimes get the feeling WHILE I'M THROWING THE COINS that I'm not going to get a response...or that I AM going to get a response. That's kind of strange but it does happen.

void · Apr 21, 2006

Yes I get that feeling sometimes even while throwing the coins too. Mind you sometimes I'm wrong, I think theres no communication and there is.

heylise · Apr 23, 2006

For me, unchanging hexagrams have had several, often very different meanings. Sometimes that there was nothing I needed to do about a situation, or there was anyway nothing I could do.

The hexagram describes a time or the situation or the general feeling about it, and the lines are much more active. So no changing lines is "no activity", for whatever reason.

Maybe because the situation is at a dead end. Or maybe everyting is fine, and will go well all by itself. Or it will end in disaster, but there is no way stopping that. Or it is so delicate, that I better keep my fingers away from it.

I have had the opposite, hex.1 with all lines changing. I wanted something desperately, but Yi told me, that I would have to conquer so much in order to fulfill my wish, it was beyond my power. The only thing I could really do, was being like 2. Accepting things the way they were. In this case, an unchanging 1 would have made me try again, thinking I had some 1-power.

When the wind does not blow - one can only go with the flow. No use for sails then. And no use for paddles on a big sea, or in big situations.
Hex.1 with all lines changing was like being in a hurricane, also better to move along instead of trying to fight the storms.

LiSe

martin · Apr 28, 2006

Hi Lightangel

,

You wrote: "I think this idea of the static hexagram giving the question back to you is an interesting one. In this particular case, it seems to fit very well with 20 unchanging.. yes.. "what do *you* think?" But I would like to hear more about it, and about how it would apply in other situations.."

In my experience the second hexagram often seems to be a image of the question that I asked, or rather of the question that I really asked. It specifies my question.
It's like the I ching says "Look, you may not know it, but this is in fact what you asked".
For example, if I get hex 37 as second hexagram then my question is maybe (although I'm not necessarily aware of it) in fact about role patterns - of men and women or more in general.

I'm not saying that it always works that way, but it is a possibility that I always consider. The second hexagram might be an accurate image of the question that I asked and give me more infomation about that question. So I will look into it from that perspective. Is this indeed what I asked?

In the case of an unchanging hexagram the second hexagram is the same as the first, in a way. So it might be that the I Ching is giving the question back to me.
If it indeed does that (and again, I'm not saying that this is a hard rule, I don't think there are many rules in oracle land, and most are probably unspeakable anyway

) it is not just giving the question back like a dead mirror. It specifies the question for me. It may give me information that I didn't have until then, at least not consciously.

Unchanging hexgrams

visitor

visitor

peace

Guest

peace

Guest

peace

Guest

visitor

peace

Guest

visitor

visitor

visitor

jesed

Guest

visitor

visitor

hmesker

Guest

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

Supporter

visitor

peace

Guest

white_dog

Guest

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

Supporter

(deceased)