dear all,

there's been an issue I've been mulling over recently and I'd like to hear your thoughts on . . maybe get some understanding . .

this is how it goes: last week I had some friends coming over for dinner . . the occasion was a special one since it was on the day that one of my friends' mother would be celebrating her name were she still among us (my friend was very close to her and wants to do sth special every year on this day in her honor).
We had a great time during dinner (there were 4 of us) and come desert, my friends proposed we each ask Yi a question. Two of them had already asked me at other times and I had offered them my help in how to do the toss and then we went thru a couple of good translations for their answers (me never knowing their question). I wasn't sure if this was a good idea but went along. Each of them threw the coins (without revealing their questions) and I offered what little I know, warning them that the answer is always theirs to find and that the best way is to read on their hexs . . still the moment was not right for taking out books and pc and reading so I emailed them the txts later . .

What got me really upset was the answer I got when my turn came up . . what I thought I should ask was 'how was I doing in giving them my understanding of their answers' to which I got 62.6 . .:bag: . . after that I refrained from saying more even though my friends wanting to go a second round at this . .

the next day I sat down discussing with Yi about this . .
-first question was 'how did I do overall'
38.2 to 21 (that was perfectly ok with me since it is the same answer I got when I once asked Yi how are questions related to their answers . . )

then I got to the details and I asked 'how did i do on the 1st answer (an unchanging hex)
-15.4 to 62
how did I do on the 2nd (a 1 chang. line reading and one thrown by the friend whose mother was in honor)?
-16.4 to 2
how about the 3rd? (a 3 chang. lines reading and the person who threw this is a very good friend of my friends but not more of an acquaintance to me)
-61.1,3,5,6 to 46
last question: please explain further my answer . .
-42.1 to 20 . .

ooookaaay . . so I'm wondering about a couple of things:
1) how do you see 62.6 in this context? I'm thinking two things here: either that the answer spoke about the last part of the 3rd answer where I seem to have gone off course, or that the answer warned me to not try to see this from a vantage point but stay grounded in the moment . . there's of course a chance that somehow it speaks of the occasion of our gathering (although that would not be answering my question as such)

2)how do you see 42.1 in relation to 62.6? these seem to be very different in quality and sense . .

3) in a strange way, the answers I got when asking further feedback from Yi seem to reflect how my friends took to my comments . .
-the first, 15.4, this is a friend who is very pragmatic and realistic about life, very conscientious too . .
-the second, 16.4, this is a composer, so 16's musical theme fits her nicely . .
-the 3rd, 61.1,3,5,6, this is someone who had heard of the Yi but had not asked before (as far as I know) . . very sociable but quite private too

I would really appreciate your feedback on this . . i don't want to mislead my friends and this is sth that I'll agree to extremely rarely . . but 62.6 and 61.6 were really alarming to me . .

p.s.: my last q abt this was: did i do the best thing by denying any more questions: 28.5 to 32 which i read as 'you felt overwhelmed so did what needed to be done in order to keep your head straight'


any ideas??

:bows:

Hi Dora (with a rolling rrr) .

The feeling I get from all of this is that you're probably trying too hard to get it just right. I like what LiSe says in her 42.1: "If you can do, then do! A cheetah can run, so he is a great runner. Birds have wings so they are great flyers. You are full of abilities, use them as best you can."

15.4 (to 62) - "Do what you have to do, without any pretension and without having yourself in your mind, as if everything gets fixed by itself. This is essential social thinking. Not following social rules, but following the inborn social touch."

I think your 'how did I do questions' spoke to not consciously trying so hard in the future, and relying on your "master in the ally" to bind Yi's answers to the questions, in the moment. Then, come back to earth and rest, grounding. That's important, and I imagine it's what Yi spoke to you in 62.6. Release and then ground. It's why musicians on the road are known to tear up their hotel rooms. They've released their show in two hours, and have another 6 hours of energy to burn. After flying, the bird needs to ground a good while, needs to calm down and regroup with your master in the alley.

Dora: Asking for criticism.

Yijing: There is none.

hi Bruce

ouf!!
. . it does seem like 62.6 was Yi talking about me causing self-injury by trying to take in all the details of an unknown neighborhood . . but, honestly, 62.6 is one of the worst answers I could get in my question (when it could just be 38.2 from the start . . but i guess i knew that answer already )

. . which raises 2 issues for me:
one, the fact that often Yi will play on my insecurities by feeding them big time . . this has happened before and it makes me wonder . .

the other, is about the negative/positive slant of the lines . . I mean, it is really difficult to see the positive aspect of a line like 62.6 . . (others that feel equally 'bad' to me are, say, 61.6 or 1.6, although I have gotten both of these as answers to situations that were waaay milder than what the lines describe . .). So if I were to take 62.6 in a positive way, it looks like it's saying: don't hurt yourself by trying to gain a wider view of the present, keep it small and careful and you'll be fine . . this tempers the punitive echoes of the line but leaves one in shaky ground as to whether we are wearing rose-colored glasses in reading our answers. I am mostly an optimist but things are not always peachy . .

and this shakiness can get even worse since often we turn to Yi to help us see straight not slantwise . . (awww, I'm hearing 38 echoing here . . grrmph )


so, people . . is any of it making sense? how do you walk down the narrow streets of Yi's answers???

(oh, and thanks for answering this )

meng said:

Dora: Asking for criticism.

Yijing: There is none.

Click to expand...

just seen this . .

I wouldn't be looking for the positive in 62.6 because...well because it is a criticism of a kind , well the positive is you know doing this was not the way to go

The only thing i would do is accept it, that what you were doing really was not the best way to be using the oracle at that time....though i wouldn't take it to heart too much., it just wasn't the best way to be engaging with it. Sounded like it was some kind of party game and I've read very similar responses from the Yi when others have consulted in similar situations. I thought one such story was told by Jung in his forward of Wilhelms I Ching but can't find it...however i swear this has happened to others





One of the reasons I stay with the Yi is its more critical answers..., i don't much like them at the time but they make me think alot and its how i know the Yi is not bull***** me. Afterall if we only want it to tell us when we're doing brilliantly well whats the point of using it.

61.6 is another slap in the chops isn't it...god that one hurts sometimes lol

hi T

ok, yes, this is it, thank you for voicing the other side of this . .

the thing is, I think that Bruce has a very good point in what he said . . and what I wrote about Yi playing up my insecurities has happened to me REPEATEDLY . . so this was not sth I made up to excuse myself, it has often been proven to be the case . .

on the other hand, a line like 62.6 is not one to be easily dismissed right? that's why I got into the whole conversation with Yi trying to figure out what went wrong (and it seems that not much was wrong besides that 61.6 which was kinda unavoidable if you think that I was giving feedback on an unknown question to someone who's almost a stranger . . )

so, again, I'm inviting people's ideas and experiences on this . . how would you read all this if it was you?

p.s.: I hear what you're saying about playing games and I guess that at some part it my friends might have seen it like that (although I have my doubts knowing the 2 of them and the fact that they valued prior advice from the Yi . . ). As far as I'm concerned . . my approach was actually quite respectful and I think that also shows in the question I chose to ask . . plus in my Yi exchanges I have been taught by the oracle that too much reverence spoils it all . .

giving the floor to your thoughts . .

one, the fact that often Yi will play on my insecurities by feeding them big time . . this has happened before and it makes me wonder . .

Click to expand...

Hey Dora
OK lets take a step back here. There seems to be a real feeding of your insecurities now. Are you really suggesting that it is the Yi that is feeding them? Step back again and take another look - is it the words on the page or the thoughts in the head that are doing the feeding?

62 - Small things may be done; great things should not be done.

The great things that should not be done is sweating on all the small stuff. keep everything small....especially the feeding of big insecurities.
Respect the thoughts you are getting, but let them go - be mean about how you feed them - so says the superior man

62.6 - This line reminds me of a dog gnawing at the bone. He just can't leave it alone -Even though there is a nice juicy chicken breast next to him - he fails to see it.

Be well

Mike

I've done readings for individuals in groups, leaving it open and somewhat light. I've done it this way for free and also for fees, and haven't felt I have cheapened or disrespected the Yi. I don't believe 62.6 was an admonishment to not read this way for others.

Dora, I do think the Yi enjoys toying with us whenever we come to it for an affirmation or criticism of ourselves, almost mockingly. The worst time for me has been just before returning to bed, wanting a nice, warm, fuzzy ideal to cuddle up with. And instead I get a total mindf**@! . I would have been better off if I didn't ask, lol.. truly. So don't feel like the lone ranger. But I figure, after it's too late (lol), it's still what I needed to hear at the time.

rodaki said:

hi T

. and what I wrote about Yi playing up my insecurities has happened to me REPEATEDLY . . so this was not sth I made up to excuse myself, it has often been proven to be the case . .

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don't understand the bit about you excusing yourself. The flip side of your 'insecurities' are your ego needs, well they are part of the same thing yes, which has to be why 15 comes up so often around readings involving issues of self esteem etc. oh and i think 15 did come up somewhere for you in later readings. Whether we perceive ourselves as smaller than we are or bigger than we are all amounts to the same thing of really just needing to be who we are without bigging up or smalling down.

p.s.: I hear what you're saying about playing games and I guess that at some part it my friends might have seen it like that (although I have my doubts knowing the 2 of them and the fact that they valued prior advice from the Yi . . ). As far as I'm concerned . . my approach was actually quite respectful and I think that also shows in the question I chose to ask . . plus in my Yi exchanges I have been taught by the oracle that too much reverence spoils it all . .

giving the floor to your thoughts . .

Click to expand...

I wasn't actually saying you were disrespectful i was meaning you perhaps needed to consider your own motivations in what you were doing and more especially your motivation in asking the Yi how you were doing.. Theres asking for trouble

hello again and thanks for posting your thoughts on this!

my_key said:

Hey Dora
OK lets take a step back here. There seems to be a real feeding of your insecurities now. Are you really suggesting that it is the Yi that is feeding them? Step back again and take another look - is it the words on the page or the thoughts in the head that are doing the feeding?

Click to expand...

hi Mike

hmh . . ok, I can see how what I wrote might sound strange . . by saying that Yi is feeding my insecurities big time I did not mean to imply that the oracle means harm. But there have been instances when the answer I get is pretty much of the 'worst-case scenario' kind . . in a way it reflects my apprehensions about a situation (even those that might be quite well-hidden even from myself) . . it's as if my fear gets exaggerated like in a dream, blown up and brought out to light . . At first these readings made me go panicky and run for the hills but after a point I started getting disentangled from my most emotional responses and begun seeing them as tools for getting to know such fears . . I still don't think their 'negative' view was solely a matter of my interpretation, there are many examples of lines in the Yi that use negative language as well as there are others with positive text . .

of course I can't say at all times whether a 'negative' answer reflects the state of things as they are or my doubts about the situation and usually I try to explore further the how's and why's of such answers to make sure of what I need to do . . (as much as I'd like to go for that juicy meat, bones make strong teeth, right? )

trojan:
don't understand the bit about you excusing yourself. The flip side of your 'insecurities' are your ego needs, well they are part of the same thing yes, which has to be why 15 comes up so often around readings involving issues of self esteem etc. oh and i think 15 did come up somewhere for you in later readings. Whether we perceive ourselves as smaller than we are or bigger than we are all amounts to the same thing of really just needing to be who we are without bigging up or smalling down.


I wasn't actually saying you were disrespectful i was meaning you perhaps needed to consider your own motivations in what you were doing and more especially your motivation in asking the Yi how you were doing.. Theres asking for trouble

Click to expand...

you're probably right bout the 'asking for trouble' part!! i also like a lot what you wrote on 15 . . I think I was looking for a leveling understanding of the 62.6 and 42.1 readings by posting all this . . in my eyes, Yi is encouraging me to think more on my 62 reading, to open up my perspectives about it and its occurrence, see the bigger picture . .
(oh, and I wasn't trying to excuse myself, just present my approach to similar readings as it evolved - being self-critical is both my lifebelt and flaw )

I'm also keeping your comment on accepting the answer but not taking it too much at heart -very much a 15 kind of attitude

meng:
I do think the Yi enjoys toying with us whenever we come to it for an affirmation or criticism of ourselves, almost mockingly.

Click to expand...

yup! Yi can have a rather acidic sense of humor lol

I've gotten some great help here from all of you in chewing my bone, thanks again!
If people would like to comment or offer advice on the occasion of giving readings in similar context, I'd love to read your views!

:bows: