Far ranging 51 . .

rodaki · Oct 15, 2009

51 seems one of those hexagrams that talk of short-lasting events . . . but what advice does it give when it answers a 'need-to-know' question that concerns more or less the rest of your life? any ideas on 51 as a long-term advice?

my_key · Oct 15, 2009

Hi Dora

Hex 51 to quote Wilhelm
[FONT=&quot]The superior man sets his life in order
And examines himself.

For me there is nothing short term in this. Of course the shocks can be short and sharp, but they can be the culmination of years of lessons leading to that moment.

Sometimes when you need to know something it's not the thing that you think you need to know that you actually need to know. AND THEN at the end of the day.....perhaps you didn't really need to know anything at all.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]With an open mind[/FONT][FONT=&quot] every day is an opportunity to embrace an arousing shock in one way shape or form. Maybe that is a great reading to get for a rest of your life type of question?

Mike

[/FONT]

maremaria · Oct 15, 2009

rodaki said:
51 seems one of those hexagrams that talk of short-lasting events . . . but what advice does it give when it answers a 'need-to-know' question that concerns more or less the rest of your life? any ideas on 51 as a long-term advice?

Dora, maybe 51 is not that short term. I mean the lightening last for a short time but the impact of being hit by a thunder perhaps influence the rest of ones life. I don't knoe the contex of your question, its just my impression from my 51 moments.

I like Mike's ideas too.

charly · Oct 16, 2009

rodaki said:
51 seems one of those hexagrams that talk of short-lasting events . . . but what advice does it give when it answers a 'need-to-know' question that concerns more or less the rest of your life? any ideas on 51 as a long-term advice?

Dear Dora:

What do you need to know? Maybe in your own heart you always know it.

For somebody H.51 is a scary hexagram, I believe it says nothing about the long or short term.

Chinese text:

震 zhen4 / shake / shock / quake /
亨 heng1 / sacrifice / feast / celebration / enjoy / prosperous /

震 zhen4 / shake / shock / quake /
來 lai2 / to come /
虩虩 xi4 xi4 / terrified * 2 /

笑 xiao4 / laugh / smile / to moke /
言 yan2 / to speak / to say / talk / word /
啞啞 e4e4 / onomat. eh! * 2 /

震 zhen4 / shake / shock / quake /
驚 jing1 / to start / to be scared / to scare / alarm /
百 bai3 / hundred /
里 li3 / village / about one- third of mile / unit of distance /

不 bu4 / not / no /
喪 sang4 / mourning / funeral / sensible loss /
匕 bi3 / an ancient type of spoon /
鬯 chang4 / sacrificial spirit /

Temporary translation:

SHAKE FEAST.
Shake celebration.

SHAKE COMES SCARY SCARY.
Shake come scarying too much.

MOCKING WORDS HE-HE!
taking it with humor, laughing.

SHAKE SCARES HUNDRED MILES.
Scares villages and countries.

DON'T LOSS the SPOON for SACRIFICE.
Don't loss the tool for the clebration.

It remains to know who is the person that laughs, maybe the SHAKE, maybe OURSELVES.

Shake: comes scaring.
We: mocking him (or mocked by him?).

Shake: scaring far around.
We: having courage, not loosing the spirit, not losing what we must to have.

Moral:

Catch yourself strong from the handle.
No matters how strong or how long the shake could be.
It will not last forever.
... and enjoy it!

Was not myself who spoke. Do you understand something? You have the only key.

Yours,:bows:

Charly

fkegan · Oct 16, 2009

rodaki said:
51 seems one of those hexagrams that talk of short-lasting events . . . but what advice does it give when it answers a 'need-to-know' question that concerns more or less the rest of your life? any ideas on 51 as a long-term advice?

Hi Dora,

Hex 51 is the first hexagram of the final set of 10 in the I Ching. It describes the power of the Divine to make itself felt by the individual. That entire decad set culminates in hex 60, the quiet completion of the journey of flowing water when it finds its natural topographical solution in the lake.

The only thing short term about hex51 is the original thunderbolt that breaks up your regular life. As an oracle about where one's life is going, assuming no moving lines, it would suggest you are being called out by the Divine and as long term advice you are now upon your own Quest to find what is your natural resting place in this world, the joyous lake to complete your rushing waters flowing along...

Frank

meng · Oct 16, 2009

Maybe it means you will always be plugged in, connected, not boring.

But, I never leave out the possibility of Yi speaking to my current mind, even while asking a more far reaching question. I've gotten 51 when my mind was active or excited, while asking about something else where 51 seemed to make no sense, for example.

rodaki · Oct 16, 2009

oh la la, what a wonderful meal to take! thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this!

-hi Mike,
this quote from Wilhelm had me thinking too and wondering . . In the context of 51 it seems to talk about the process of periodically re-arranging one's priorities -thunder strikes and you see things under a new light- but it's hard for me to see how this links back to the steadiness asked . . how can one protect the chalice in this respect, what is to be shaken off, what guarded? is one alone in this, or, how long-term are the decisions reached in thunder-time? (hmm, maybe I should look how thunder works in 32's steady hand?)

-hi Maria
what you say is interesting . . maybe I should look at the thunders of my life so far and see how they have affected the landscape . . 'read' the thunder's echo in upturned stones, in the evolution of critters, in chasms revealed -maybe there are caves where thunder still lingers, bound to strike

-dear Charly . .
maybe in my heart I always know it . . my first thoughts on 51 talked about laughing in the face of what means to scare -a bit devil-may-care perhaps?- then I thought that laughter can be as convulsive as fear . .
then I looked 'spoon' in the dictionary:

a utensil consisting of a small bowl on a handle, used for stirring, serving and eating food

also looked at the history of spoons

)) to find traces of shells, splinters and flashes of light, their use in rituals, but also details on the traditional, handforging way of their construction . .

could it be that thunder shakes as much as it constructs this tool?

ahh, looking for the key . .

-Frank, yes, this is about a quest of sorts and also about finding one's resting place, flow and regulation . . maybe it is true that I'm given here only part of the image, just the first step, who knows what will show when the dust settles?
If I get it right, you're seeing 51 as a moment of rupture, necessary for clearings and for setting forth in new directions . . a one-time event, and that is part of what I'm wondering about: is this a singular event that reverberates through time or is this about a recurrent circulation of energy?

-hi Bruce, true, being connected does come as a natural shock, grasping the handle of it is the most interesting part of it though . . The context of my question was not really excitement, this came about after some discussions I had on the forces that drive parts of our lives, how much do we direct them or are we directed by them . . there was talk of how there are dominant and constant dynamics in the shaping of our course, so it was with these thoughts that I asked . . not really a new or shocking thought, even though it did provoke the question. This did feel like it needed to be taken at face value, sth like 'know thunder!'

thank you all again for posting these . . it's great food for thought
I'll be happy to mull over it and anything else you might wish to add . .
(happily chewing away

)

hollis · Oct 16, 2009

I received this hexagram years ago about moving to NYC. Some of the best 18 years of my life. I had a blast.

meng · Oct 16, 2009

An 18 year blast? Wow, Hollis, I shoulda hung around with you!

meng · Oct 16, 2009

rodaki said:
..came about after some discussions I had on the forces that drive parts of our lives, how much do we direct them or are we directed by them . . there was talk of how there are dominant and constant dynamics in the shaping of our course, so it was with these thoughts that I asked

Boy, that's a great topic right there! Who is driving, really? I don't know if anyone really has a clue how to answer with any certainty. But it's great to ponder that balance of, as you put it: dominant and constant dynamics. The Yi is all about that, of course. But it's good to contemplate it without any books or references or prior conclusions.

What is the Greek word, dutimus? Explosive, dynamic, energetic; it is the Greek word used for the dynamic power of the Holy Spirit. Pretty exciting stuff.

hollis · Oct 16, 2009

meng said:
An 18 year blast? Wow, Hollis, I shoulda hung around with you!

!!!

hilary · Oct 16, 2009

(*adds shiny stars to thread*

)

And another thing - between the Sequence (xugua) and the Commentary on the Decision (tuanzhuan), I get the sense that this hexagram is about continuity. There has been overthrow of the old (49) and embracing of the new (50), but what this was really all about was renewing connection with the spirits and coming back to life. So as the shockwaves ripple out, what is at the centre that didn't change - what's that sacred connection that's been renewed - and who will take responsibility for its care? Being the one with responsibility for the altars of ancestors, earth and grain is not a temporary thing.

rodaki · Oct 16, 2009

ohh, shiny stars, what an honor :blush:

Hollis wow

that surely sounds great!

Hilary, could you expand a bit on this . .

what is at the centre that didn't change - what's that sacred connection that's been renewed - and who will take responsibility for its care? Being the one with responsibility for the altars of ancestors, earth and grain is not a temporary thing.

is there a story there? I fail to complete the image . .

Boy, that's a great topic right there! Who is driving, really? I don't know if anyone really has a clue how to answer with any certainty. But it's great to ponder that balance of, as you put it: dominant and constant dynamics. The Yi is all about that, of course. But it's good to contemplate it without any books or references or prior conclusions.

really, who is driving?
everytime I think of these things I always go back to sailing cause it's such a combination of control and lack of it . . I see the same in 51, amidst the tumult and roar someone holds a steady course . . I'm just wondering if what is held could be thunder itself . .

been looking into thunders and words but I think they need to go in the back burner for a while . .
in the meantime, I was wondering . . does anyone know anything about actual chinese rituals where the spoon or ladle was used? that would be interesting to find out . .

maremaria · Oct 16, 2009

rodaki said:
really, who is driving?

. .

This reminds me a similar discussion when you posted the film with the icebreaker Dora. I recall I had the same questions but I don’t recall having a solid answer. Maybe , as Meng says, there is no an answer, don’t know. What I know is that sometimes I lead (perhaps) and sometimes I follow (again perhaps)… and there are times when I believed that I was leading but afterwards realized that I was following, and vice versa .

maremaria · Oct 16, 2009

rodaki said:
-hi Maria
what you say is interesting . . maybe I should look at the thunders of my life so far and see how they have affected the landscape . . 'read' the thunder's echo in upturned stones, in the evolution of critters, in chasms revealed -maybe there are caves where thunder still lingers, bound to strike

)

I see thunder as a flash of lightening. Sudden , short and powerful. Sometimes it feels like a stroke of insight. A quite dark night’s sky and suddenly BOOM . Lots of light. Its scary, you need to run away, find a place to hide but even if you close your eyes, even if you close your ears the sound and the light doesn’t disappears from you memory.

…. Rambling..

hilary · Oct 17, 2009

Is there a story?

There was a regime that had ruled for as long as anyone could remember, and that regime had fallen into corruption and lost its connection with the spirits. And there was a modest tribe in the West that grew strong and gained allies and eventually overthrew the corrupt regime (hexagram 49) and established a new government - which means they recreated the relationship between people and the cosmos (see the Image of 49, for instance) and founded a new, stable, beautiful way of life to contain their people's development (hexagram 50).

Then come hexagrams 51 and 52, doubled-trigram hexagrams, which seem to me to be standing at the gateway and ushering in this new time. It's as if the Yi first tells the story with 49-50, then takes us through the emotional-spiritual process of change with 51-52.

The thing is, the Zhou (the new lot) didn't overthrow the Shang (the old lot who'd got out of synch) just for the sake of change, or because they were a bunch of rebels. They were restoring a spiritual connection that had been lost. That's what out-of-season thunder does: it's a sign that the world is out of harmony with heaven, and it's also the voice of heaven, making the connection whether it's convenient for us or not. ('Hello, this is your ultimate reality speaking, is anybody awake out there?') (Like that - only, you know, louder...)

So a big theme of hexagram 51 is finding what continues, even while everyone's doing their headless chicken routine. Someone does not lose the sacred ladle and libation. (And as I was saying, the commentary has interesting things to say about that 'someone'.)

This is pretty much the point where the hexagram stops answering questions and starts asking them again. What is sacred to you? What have you not lost? Maybe something the Shock woke you up to?

That would be the continuation of the story

.

bradford · Oct 17, 2009

The eight hexagrams that repeat Ba Gua are called Chong Gua and their meanings are subtly different than the meanings of the Ba Gua that they double. It's sort of like that energy learning to deal with or live with itself, reflecting on itself and its meaning. Double Xun, for instance, is adapting to the process of adaptation, learning to accommodate yourself to a changing world, having to think twice sometimes. Double Zhen is getting to know the things that move us, both drives and fears, and the process is one of maturing into the eldest son. So 51 is a good Gua to get for a long run, for growing into yourself and your abilities, if you're willing to learn what moves you and what should not.

rosada · Oct 17, 2009

The two hexagrams preceding 51. talk about time and place:

49. The superior man sets the CALENDAR in order and makes the seasons clear.

50. The superior man consolidates his fate by making his POSITION correct.

When these two intersect - the right time and the right place - BINGO! It's a feeling of this was meant to be so the superior man examines himself asking am I willing to fulfill my destiny?

51. The superior man sets his life in order and examines himself.

Along with lightening striking I think a good image for 51.Shock would be of a person seeing ones self in a group photograph. As if 50 is the group picture, the Caldron is the scarrying pool, the mirror everyone is reflected in and 51 is the experience of seeing ourselves in this group, where we are, how we appear to others, what lies ahead.

I think it is also meaningful that the next hexagram, 52.Keeping Still, describes the superior man now maintaining his focus. He no longer traveling the world searching for his purpose but having seen how he fits in with the grand scheme of things he now wants only to fulfill his role:

52. The superior man does not permit his thoughts to go beyond his situation.

As a long term reading i would think hexagram 51 would indicate the need to keep a long term focus on the goal as there will be many interruptions before it is completed. ( I say this based on the fact that I've been trying to write this all morning and I've been repeatedly interrupted with Jax refusing to nap. He keeps waking up and giggling.)
rosada.

my_key · Oct 18, 2009

bradford said:
The eight hexagrams that repeat Ba Gua are called Chong Gua and their meanings are subtly different than the meanings of the Ba Gua that they double. It's sort of like that energy learning to deal with or live with itself, reflecting on itself and its meaning. Double Xun, for instance, is adapting to the process of adaptation, learning to accommodate yourself to a changing world, having to think twice sometimes. Double Zhen is getting to know the things that move us, both drives and fears, and the process is one of maturing into the eldest son. So 51 is a good Gua to get for a long run, for growing into yourself and your abilities, if you're willing to learn what moves you and what should not.

Hi Bradford

Is there also a sense of the inner self being shocked at the realisations that have come from the shock of the new energy it has received.

This brings a whole new world into view for you. And once you realise that the only constant thing in there is change, then laughter is the best medicine you can take with you on your journey to find the new you.

Mike

fkegan · Oct 19, 2009

my_key said:
Hi Bradford

Is there also a sense of the inner self being shocked at the realisations that have come from the shock of the new energy it has received.

This brings a whole new world into view for you. And once you realise that the only constant thing in there is change, then laughter is the best medicine you can take with you on your journey to find the new you.

Mike

Hi Mike,

The structure of hexagram 51 has Yang lines only in the first and fourth place, thus a transition to a new situation that also brings the feelings and imagery of the soul into clear focus. This is the situation of the Divine reaching into your soul, breaking your roots and setting loose the Quest to find what your own soul itself requires from absolute Source.

This begins the final complete set of 10 hexagrams in the KWS which will end in hex 60 where the personal and transient (flowing waters) finds its natural situation and becomes the stable, quiescent lake. Overall, a lovely, hopeful view that even when one is struck by the Divine thunderbolt and driven into the wilderness as a Wanderer (hex 56) there is an eventual peaceful final result to demonstrate the ultimate, positive benevolence of the Divine Process.

Frank

bradford · Oct 19, 2009

My Zen teacher for 15 years was about 6'6" with a Santa Claus beard and really big hands. On some days at unpredictable times during Zazen meditation he would bring those hands together with a really loud clap. Anybody who wasn't in the right frame of mind would just about jump out of their skin. But if you were in the right space, ready to let what needs to come and go, the sound would just wash right through, just part of the rising and falling. I think this relates to not spilling the wine, not freaking out at life's little surprises. We need to learn, but we learn to move with what comes our way.

rodaki · Oct 19, 2009

dear all,

have been away from the forum for a couple of days (re-locating again, this time in A'dam) but what great stories!! I have not many words of my own (maybe the laughing ones will come later

)
but I have your words brewing in my mind . . 51 has suddenly been filled with sound and color and all kinds of images and, more than that, it's starting to make very real, grounded sense in terms of my question's context . .

so, again, thank you all!!

(back to brewing sounds)

hilary · Oct 19, 2009

Great! (Always good to hear those brewing sounds.)

meng · Oct 20, 2009

I'd made killer burgers yesterday, using the these ingredients. (vegans may wish to turn away)

Candid's Amazing Burgers

3 lbs 80% lean chop meat
whole small chopped white onion
lots of fresh coarsely chopped garlic
black pepper
red flake pepper
Tabasco sauce
chili powder
2 tblspn soy sauce
a little salt

Mixed together by hand, form a 1/2 lb patty, not too firmly! Broil until nicely browned, slightly crisp on the outside, medium juicy inside.

All seasonings are added light to medium. A friend asked, does it taste hot? I said no, it just has lots of ZING! When I opened Clarity to this thread I thought, hmm, yep, 51.

maremaria · Oct 20, 2009

yammy !!!
and a very fitting name. What you say before tasting it ? "i eat it even if it kills me ?"

rodaki · Oct 20, 2009

maremaria said:
What you say before tasting it ? "i eat it even if it kills me ?"

sounds like it for me! -in bed with high fever today . . Yi said 51.3 . . oh well, soup will do just fine

maremaria · Oct 20, 2009

rodaki said:
sounds like it for me! -in bed with high fever today . . Yi said 51.3 . . oh well, soup will do just fine

oh, wish you well. sending some :stir:

( soup)

Me, in bed too, but can't complain coz disobeyd doctors orders :bag:

maria

meng · Oct 20, 2009

rodaki said:
sounds like it for me! -in bed with high fever today . . Yi said 51.3 . . oh well, soup will do just fine

And changing to 55. Ooh, hope you feel better soon.

rodaki · Oct 21, 2009

hey, thanks! I'm sure I will . . Everytime I come back to Amsterdam sth like thunder happens . . but I think it's getting better

I entertain myself thinking it could even be a healing thunder -and not spilling my soup in the meantime

rosada · Oct 21, 2009

It was my turn to cook the dinner last night. Didn't have any bright ideas so I thought to hide out here at onlineclarity instead. Then Yureka! Bruce's recipe for Burgers. Not only did I have a pound of 80% ground beef already defrosted, I had the other ingredients as well. Thanks Bruce :bows:. Everyone loved them.

Right time, right place, Shocking when a plan comes together.

rosada

Far ranging 51 . .

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