63:5 Once and for All, Who was the Eastern Neighbor?

[midaughter]

the I Ching community we have a long discussion of who the Eastern Neighbor whose ox sacrifice is criticized by the WB version of Hexagram 63:5.

Hexagram 63, Moving line 5​

a)"The neighbor in the east [the Zhou? my notes only] ​

who slaughters an ox ​

Does not attain as much happiness​

As the neighbor in the west​

With his small offering.​

b) The eastern neighbor, who slaughters an ox, ​

Is not as much in harmony with the time ​

as the western neighbor.​

The latter attains true happiness: Good​

fortune comes in great measure."​

I call it the 'simple sacrifice' which WB notes that since the sacrifice came sincerely from the heart even though the sacrifice was a mere pig was received with greater effect in heaven. Even the writers of the WB (there is a technical argument that Wilhelm put this in later) disagreed and there is an analysis found in WB 63:5 in the old Commentary.* The Zhouyi ignores all of this event of the simple sacrifice.

The problem has been that the Zhou were thought to be located in the West, not the east. Some ideas have been forth:

*Only the Zhou had the Ox Sacrifice for which they were well known
*There was an Ox Bow lake the physically placed the Zhou at the time of the sacrifice to the east of the Shang. There is some good authority for this.
*The sacrifices were made while the armies of both the Shang and Zhou were in the field and temporarily the Zhou were in the east.

Here is a brief analysis of sacrifices in general but it illustrates how closely the pastoral Zhou were connected to the Ox sacrifice and that the Han commentary of line 63:5 should be suspect.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Sacrifices: Shang to Chou Dynasties[/FONT] . General
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The King of Heaven, the Nobility, and the Common People were the three subdivisions of the people. Much is described in the Confucian Book of Rites.[/FONT]

The Son of Heaven's Sacrifices
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The great sacrifices to God and to Earth, at the winter and summer solstices respectively, which were reserved for the Son of Heaven alone. Besides what may be called private sacrifices, the Emperor sacrificed also to the four quarters, and to the mountains and rivers of the empire. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] At the beginning of his reign and yearly thereafter, or when the center of his kingdom was moved to a new capital, or in times of greatest need, the king made a pilgrimage to the shrine on the mountain of each of the four cardinal directions that enclosed his kingdom seeking the beneficent influences of heaven by making sacrifices to the deities of each cardinal direction.[/FONT]

Zhou Practices
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]When sacrificing to the spirits of the land and of grain, the Son of Heaven used a bull, a ram, and a boar. The victim, offered by the Emperor in a public display of blazing wood was a young ox of one color only. A feudal noble would use any fatted ox; and a petty official, a sheep or a pig.

Problems with Han Interpretation of 63:5
Li: Ox or Magic Tortoise?
An account of this sacrifice given for a victory over the Huns by the Zhou King is the "eastern neighbor," spoken of in Hexagram 63:5. The sacrifice in the Hexagram is in the trigram of Li and thereafter the the ox was the animal associated with Li. [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The Han commentator placed Li with the ox due to Li being found in the trigram and so forth but not convincing to me. [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] When looking at Book III, the Commentaries, Hexagram 49, line 5, one will find the ancient definition of Li as "the magic tortoise." The commentary and discussion of this problem is found in WB 63:5 in the old commentary in the back. Of course, Li could have been both but the magic tortoise is the animal that holds up the universe and creates this plane of existence by turning the south, the direction of Li. Li is an elemental hexagram, fundamental to diviners and a source of good energy. An ox?? An ox is for the pastoral not the elemental.

There is more directional argument of the sacrificed pig being Kan (North)and thus Li is located to the opposite it but as one part the hexagram says, 'this is exhausting'.



________________

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] *It is clear from a reading of Wilhelm/Baynes, Hexagram 63, Book III: The Commentaries, that the commentators (there are at least two) are deciphering oracle bones or bamboo slips from an earlier time. All of the line statements are given an alternate interpretations by one or more commentators, one of which is named as Cheng Tzu, (I wish Bradford could find the name of the other one) indicating there was uncertainty as to the meaning of the text.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] . We can roughly date the interpretation of this Hexagram to the arrival of Buddhism, c. 100 BC based on the line statement of line 2 b) (given as an alternate interpretation, with the reference to "following the Middle Way," a Buddhist concept that arrived around this time.
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[/FONT]

 

[lienshan]

hi midaughter ... do you known this site:

http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=26124&if=en

and when you click the two small lightblue arrowbuttons at line 5, you jumb to directory:

(James Legge) http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=26138
(Tuan Zhuan) http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=26139

In another tread you mention a Guodian character "Guan Yin" ... try look here:

http://www.daoisopen.com/GuodianLaozi.html

You find photos and translations of the characters by clicking at chapters at the bottom of the site.

lienshan

 

[charly]

the I Ching community we have a long discussion of who the Eastern Neighbor whose ox sacrifice is criticized by the WB version of Hexagram 63:5 ...

Mary:

I wonder where is the YI speaker. I believe that the YI SPEAKER is neither at the east nor at the west, he/she is maybe at the middle, at the centre, the two neighbors are neighbors of the YI speaker, two possibilities, two models of how could we behave.

Maybe little to do with history (1).

The two ways:

killing living beings
truly enjoying our own blessings (the music / harmony of the universe)

The second is maybe less powerful but more happy.

From the point of view of Legge and Wilhelm the second is of course the more happy.

Chinese text & usual meanings

東 dong1: east / eastern
鄰 lin2: neighbor / adjacent
殺 sha1: to kill / to murder / to slaughter (2)
牛 niu2: ox / cow / bull

不 bu4:negative prefix / not / no
如 ru2: as / such as / like
西 xi1: west / western
鄰 lin2: neighbor / adjacent
之 zhi1: 's / him / her / it
禴 yue4: spring / royal sacrifice (3)
祭 ji4: to offer sacrifice / offering

實 shi2: real / true / honest
受 shou4: to bear / to stand / to endure / to receive
其 qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it (refers to sth preceding it)
福 fu2: good fortune / happiness / blessing
​

Temporary translation:

Eastern neighbor killing oxen
[is] not like western neighbor's YUE offering
→ [that] truly receives its [the due] blessing.
​

BUT I'M NOT SURE IF THE LAS SENTENCE APPLIES TO THE SECOND OR THE FIRST NEIGHBOR !

Maybe the sense is that the two sacrifices are different and that only one will receive the expected blessing.

I suspect tha the second, because killing oxen sounds like a plain crime, why to use a word that means to kill?

But the subordination could be both pointing to the first clause:

Eastern neighbor killing oxen
→ [is] not like western neighbor's YUE offering
→ [it] truly receives its [the due] blessing.​

And what about east / west? Maybe were swapped for conceal the sense.
Maybe there are simple orientations:

• east → the morning → the day → the sun → the male
• west → the evening → the night → the moon → the female

The first killing the own ox, the second enjoying the true blessing.

Remember that H.63 is speaking about «after the completion», already crossed the waters, already done the sacrifice. (4)

Yours,

Charly


_____________________
(1) if something to do with history maybe about SHANG and GUI-FANG, but did shangs kill oxen? Why a YUE offering is a little offering? maybe only crops? the YUE isn't a royal sacrifice?
(2) to KILL, not to SACRIFICE
(3) for YUE, see the Harmen Mesker page, is a must, I believe that here it could mean «MUSIC» or maybe «MEASURED»
(4) and JI JI means «little pistol» in chinese slang!

 

[midaughter]

Hi Charly: So nice to hear from your fertile mind. One suggestion: Hexagram 63, AFTER COMPLETION confuses everyone. It really means you are in the cycle of change, not really after but during. I call the hexagram The Great Wheel of Time. In divination the hexagram helps mark time, especially when the I Ching wants to go far into the future. The elegance of the I Ching never ceases to amaze me. For example, you inquire about a couple who just married. Intermittently you will receive this hexagram and the changing lines will move upwards in 63. So here goes: they are happy, any one of a number, things fall apart 23 , the reconcile 13:5 is a very good example of this. she becomes ill, usually 36. We go further and further into the future. When Hexagram 64 is received BEFORE COMPLETION, the cycle of time is complete. Hexagram 64 is that brief period of time before a cycle of time begins again. Neither hexagram has very good line statements and are kid of confusing. Best to look at the trigrams. You will not fire and water, fire and water. these are the basic agents of the creation of phenomena of our plane of existence. water, traversed, we hope indicates a period of danger-it can be anything from the inherent danger of living on the planet to a very real danger ; fire can mean so many things from having a good clear mind (such as in having Clarity of mind) ,intuition, intellect (yes, both)to a dozen other things. Attached is Guan Yin (fire) riding a tortoise (water)

 

[charly]

Hi Charly: So nice to hear from your fertile mind. One suggestion: Hexagram 63, AFTER COMPLETION confuses everyone. ... Attached is Guan Yin (fire) riding a tortoise (water)

Hi, Mary:

I'm only trying to answer your main question about who was the eastern neighbor. I believe that each H. in the YI tells too many stories than we could imagine.

Of course, almost all story have something of true history, but not all tells the true history. I believe that if the YI writers wanted to write history, the style of the YI would have been other.

And if the YI writers couldn't write freely? Suppose that they want to conceal the true meaning, surely they were not speaking well of the Zhou rulers, maybe they belong to the remainder Shang/Yin officials, maybe hereditary diviners.

• Western neighbor, oxen killers, Zhou rulers
• Eastern neighbor → Shang/Yin descendants, truly blessed

... too much clear, too much dangerous.

Suppose that EAST and WEST were swapped: the criticism was concealed, not so clear. Nobody knows who is the hero and who is the villain. But restoring east and west to their original places:

• Zhou newer ritual is merely expesion of political power, bureaucratized exhibition reserved to the ruler, plain crime without befitial effect for the community → only killing oxen.
  
• The old good Shang/Yin rulers worshipped fertility with dionisiac rites including old sacred people performances such as dance, music, chant, free mating of youngs. This performances truly provoke benefitial effects for the community, the blessing of sons and daughters.

The key of the line from this point of view is the opposition between KILLING OXEN and YUE OFFERING.

Maybe some of the YI writers were courtiers of YIN origins, even from matrilinear clans of sorceress whose influence was later rejected, passing to the people's wisdom.

«... the shamaness was gradually removed from the official hierarchy and forced to practice her divine arts among the people...»

Schafer, quoted by John Schieffeler: Origins of chinese folk medicine
at: http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/afs/pdf/a289.pdf
posted by Sergio in another thread

SHA (slaughter) means TO KILL, Legge adds «for sacrifice» between brackets, but do not means sacred offering.

禴 YUE, translated as SPRING or SMALL is the name of a royal sacrifice, the character has two components: ALTAR/SACRED and FLUTE, a sort of flute with multiple pipes converging on a mouth piece (for all the meanings, see Harmen) (1).

祭 JI, offering, has three components, MEAT, HAND and ALTAR, putting the meat on the altar with the hand → to make an offering, to do a sacrifice (2)

Both YUE-JI characters have the sacred meaning of wich SHA lacks. And of course all share the definite sexual imagery condensed in SPRING → The spring comunal performance durig wich peasant boys and girls mated.

I go to try with the trigrams assap.

Yours,

Charly
_______________________
(1) in another music instrument, the SHENG, multiple pipes converge onto a gourd, womb symbol. While simple flutes / pipes siymbolize male, yue and sheng symbolize both male and female, the actors of the spring «sacrifice».

(2) «to put all the meat at fire» means in my country to gamble all that one have, expecting to get the jackpot. This line is speaking in a «carnal» sense.

 

[midaughter]

To answer your question in parts:

The Zhouyi only says
"Eastern neighbours slay an ox;
not like the western neighbours' summer sacrifice
Truly receiving their blessings."

The hexagram of the Zhouyi is interesting when compared to WB is interesting for a few reasons: The Zhouyi does not mention Wu TIng, the Shang king (who reigned at least 700 years before the Zhou and likely this hexagram in WB was written some 500 years after the Zhou.. WB does mention Wu Ting by name and calls his the 'Illustrous Ancestor" and describes him as the king who gave such impetus to the Shang Dynasty.

WB says the sacrifice by the eastern neighbor was a pig; the Zhouyi says it was the 'summer sacrifice.'

The pastoral Zhou were known for their elaborate ox sacrifice, the Son of Heaven being the only person allowed to sacrifice an ox of one color only. The killing aspect of an ox sacrifice should not be read into this sacrifice at all. No doubt, the ox was used to plow the fields and the sacrifice of an ox would be appropriate in their culture.

I think it likely that WB is a Shang version of the event and the Zhouyi naturally belongs to the Zhou.

Rubbings from Tomb 5 (Shang Dynasty) show the sacrifice of a small animal, likely a pig when all is read and studied together.

The Zhou used diviners from their own clans. The Inner Court (women clans) were now all Zhou. Divination was limited to a few allowed inquiries. Their were Shang in the Zhou court who participated in the court and participated in sacrifices to their own ancestors. Some deities were carried over, especailly the Queen mother of the Western Mountain. It seems that the powers of shamans of either sex were brought under more control and the king was no long involved in divination or took a role in shamanic rituals, shamans performed the rites. I don't know about women shamans, no doubt even if their role at court was limited they still existed in the society.

 

[charly]

To answer your question in parts:

The Zhouyi only says
"Eastern neighbours slay an ox;
not like the western neighbours' summer sacrifice
Truly receiving their blessings."...

Mary:

I believe that there are more coincidence than difference betwen your point of view and the mine.

• Ox sacrifice belongs to a pastoral culture, here the Zhou.
• Pig sacrifice belongs to a more ancient culture, maybe hunterers
• Crop sacrifice belongs to agriculture.

The last two related to fertility rites, say dionisiac rites, maybe the Shang rites.

The ox sacrifice was also a rite of fecondity for the Zhou, but for people that simpathized more with the ancient regime and the old good rites, maybe was a mere exhibition of political power.

And for later philosophers (mainly confucianists), protodemocrats, the aceptance of the bloody aspect of the rite, the ox killing, was a consesion, but they surely simpathized more with the social aspects of the rite, the conventional behavior, the choreography, the powerful efect of the music.

The YUE sacrifice, more complex, more civilizated, and at the same time more deeply rooted but not smaller than only to kill an ox (as you say, to slay an ox, that is what the Zhouyi says, not to sacrifice).

Maybe a Shang version of the Zhou rite. But the relation East / West adds confusion, and the sintax is unclear, maybe it elude the Zhou censorship and the Han were ambivalent.

Yours,

Charly

 

[midaughter]

THE BEND IN THE YELLOW RIVER
B. Liu Qiyu in his Anthology of the Hua Xia Civilization, tackled the issue of 'xi' or west. His validations pointed to the land of 'he qu' (i.e., the inflexion point of the Yellow River Bends) as the 'land of the west', i.e, later land between Qin and Jin principalities. Liu Qiyu cited Guo Yu's statement in regards to You-yu-shi as proof that Yu clan had deep connection with Xia people. The statement from Guo Yu could be paraphrased like this: "In ancient times, Count Chong-bo Gun also reigned in the land of You-yu-shi clan." Count Chong-bo Gun was the father of Lord Yu and dwelled in southern or southwestern Shanxi Prov, i.e., the east bank of today's East Yellow River Bend.*

 

[charly]

... the land of 'he qu' (i.e., the inflexion point of the Yellow River Bends) as the 'land of the west'...

Mary:

Do you mean that, for the YI, prehistoric Xia offerings were better than Zhou ox sacrifices?

For me it makes sense.

Yours,

Charly

 

[lienshan]

Here are all the compass directions mentioned in the Zhouyi:

Hexagram 2:
It is favorable to find friends in the west and south,
To forego friends in the east and north.

Hexagram 9:
Dense clouds, no rain from our western region.

Hexagram 17.6:
The king introduces him to the western mountain.

Hexagram 36.3:
Darkening of the light during the hunt in the south.

Hexagram 39:
The southwest furthers.
The northeast does not further.

Hexagram 40:
The southwest furthers.

Hexagram 63.5:
The neighbor in the east who slaughters an ox does not attain as much real happiness
As the neighbor in the west with his small offering.

You might find the answer to your question when looking up in the sky at night:

The three sections, which make up the north celestial pole are called the Three Enclosures.
The stars in these areas can be seen at all times throughout the year.
In ancient China the Purple Forbidden Enclosure was considered the middle of the sky.
The Supreme Palace Enclosure was to the east and the north of Purple Forbidden Enclosure.
The Heavenly Market Enclosure was to the west and south of Purple Forbidden Enclosure.

lienshan

 

[midaughter]

I don't know

Mary: I was actually just pointing out an ox bow situation to show that the eastern neighbor could have been the Zhou . I am trying to limit my own interpretations to 63:5.
Also, there is evidence for Xia-Zhou kinship with the use of yarrow and bamboo slips.

Do you mean that, for the YI, prehistoric Xia offerings were better than Zhou ox sacrifices?

For me it makes sense.

Yours,

Charly

For the record: various 63:5 line statements:
Hexagram 63:5 Zhouyi Wang Bi (Wang Bi's version is associated with the Han Dynasty)
"The neighbor in the east who slaughters an ox
Is not as much in harmony with the time
as the western neighbor.
The latter attains true happiness: Good
fortune comes in great measure."


James Legge's Zhouyi translation

The fifth NINE, undivided, shows its subject (as) the neighbour in the east who slaughters an ox (for his sacrifice); but this is not equal to the (small) spring sacrifice of the neighbour in the west, whose sincerity receives the blessing.

[FONT=&quot]*if you look in Legge's online Book of Rites, Part I, you will see the spring sacrifice is the ox sacrifice. And Rutt;s Zhouyi says it is the ‘summer sacrifice’ how confusing. I think it likely the Zhou had a highest, above-all ox sacrifice for very, very important events and also one that occurred in the Spring no matter what.[/FONT]

 

[midaughter]

Neolithic Pig Sacrifices

More about pig sacrifice in Neolithic China:

There were graveside ritual offerings of liquids, pig skulls, and pig \\
jaws (e.g., Pan-p'o and Ta-wen-k'ou) [this may be the source of the
simple sacrifice made by the shang after their victory over the Huns
found in Hexagram 63.5 It seems reasonable that the Shang, whose primary site was Anyang, the same as the Pan po (sometimes called a protoShang culture could be that the simple sacrifice was made to honor the dead from that war.)

Attached: Tomb 5 of the Shang Dynasty rubbing showing what looks like pig and pig's jaws