Fan Yao (corresponding lines)

[heylise]

Answer to http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/92/2463.html

I don't know who invented it, but Bradford coined the term for it. Both Bradford and I have been using it, but I have no doubt that many others did too.

Years ago, when I could not yet look at the Chinese text, I had difficulty with the meanings of many lines. I needed a kind of coordinates, like when one defines a spot on the surface of the earth. I found a connection with the Sabian symbols, and they often had a connection with each other through the fanyao lines. The image of one line 'looked' like the other one, and vv.
I do not especially use the Sabian symbols anymore, but the fanyao have proven their value for me. Lines yield much more of their meaning.
It does make sense: the bottom line of hex.1, #1.1 is "hex.1 its 44". It is the region of hex.1 which has a 44-connection. And 44.1 is "44 its 1". So the two are closely related.

The fanyao is always only between two lines. Every line has a fanyao, and it is always the same. There is no special sequence. What you refer to, "going from the bottom to the top", is a certain way of following the change from one hex into another. You can use the fanyao there, but the fanyao themselves have nothing to do with 'from bottom to top' or so.

Personally I never use this way, the "steps of change". I think the Yi gave me a hexagram with one or more changing lines, and that is it, no more. The hexagram is important, and the lines are, with their fanyao, because it explains the lines themselves. But everything extra is one's own addition. It just depends on what works best for everyone individually.

LiSe

 

[soshin]

Very interesting! It is an further explanation of the line which pimarily moved. I see.
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Personally I never use this way, the "steps of change". I think the Yi gave me a hexagram with one or more changing lines, and that is it, no more. The hexagram is important, and the lines are, with their fanyao, because it explains the lines themselves. But everything extra is one's own addition. It just depends on what works best for everyone individually.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am just in the process to learn more about in-depth-readings, so I am grateful for each and every added possibility to understand the meaning of an answer.

So far, I had this technque applied to a few answers from the last weeks. They do make some sense for me, but I will have to look deeper into that matter, trying not to forget to count on intuition and not that much in "maths" . As you say so beautiful on your site:

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

Every time one brags about a force, that force loses part of its genuine, natural power. It goes to your mind and leaves your soul, and by doing so it becomes limited. The mind is like a demanding boss for it, believing in matter and facts, the soul is like a nurturing mother, trusting heaven.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you.

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Soshin-
With regard to Fan Yao, I think it's important to keep them out of the prediction realm and simply use them to assist in your understanding of the text that you actually received by stalks or coins.
They are not a part of the Yi's response to your question, but they were often a part of the authors' understanding when they were writing the line texts to begin with.

 

[heylise]

Agree completely with Bradford.

About "Every time etc..": you have to thank Jung, because that is where it comes from.

LiSe

 

[soshin]

I'll keep them out, OK. Thank you for your first-hand informations.

Oh, Carl Gustav again. Nevertheless, thank you for including it into your Yijing Page. That's a very good thought.

Soshin

 

[soshin]

edited

 

[cheiron]

Hi

Quick note:

I have had a lot of success using the Fan Yao as a predictive tool.

Karcher proposes that it is used thus... see his next book, I expect.

However I am still uncertain about their use in hexagrams 1:2 27:28 29:30 61:62.

I would suggest folk to experiment and decide for themselves.

Respectfully to LiSe and Brad.

--Kevin

Try:
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/I_Ching_community/messages/48/1845.html?

 

[soshin]

Thank you, Kevin.

I have looked into that thread and bookmarked it. So I will experiment further with a few readings with multiple moving lines and will share the findings here, checking the answers from the hindsight.

Namaste,

Soshin

 

[cheiron]

That's great

I look forward to your findings.

--Kevin

 

[hilary]

Following up on something someone wrote to the newsletter once, I've got some mileage out of the idea that fan yao have to do with how the querent might feel about the situation, or how it might look from their perspective.

But then I have difficulty dealing with the stacks of 'related things' available (like 'paired lines' or crosslines - was that what you meant above, Kevin?) unless I can have some idea of what kind of 'relationship' I'm looking at.

 

[soshin]

It was as Kevin stated:

"I am firmly convinced that the Yi will speak to us in the way we expect it will...

Our Connection is all...

For me the more concepts or models I use the more likely the Yi will answer in one of those veins... thus I increase the vocabulary of the communication between the Yi and myself..."

After asking more than ten questions with the fanyao method (of course only answers with multiple moving lines applied, which I got plenty of lately) it shows that the answers are becoming clearer to me and more facettes of the whole story of the time are visible to me.

I looked into answers given last year in hindsight, and it was much harder to get a connection to the fanyao in those cases. Perhaps it is really that important to tell the Yi which "added concept" - in this case the fanayo - one wants to add, and - whow! - it seems to work. At least IMHO.

Perhaps I am seeing something in it the fanyao never was, but I definitely added it to my tools when getting multiple moving lines.

Namaste and thank you for your help.

 

[etiram]

Hi all:

What is the meaning of hexagram 44 line 1, changing to hexagram 1 ? I have a hard time understanding the meaning. I recently interviewed with a company for a job, and I wanted to know what was their impression about me on the interview. The question was what was the opinion of that possible employer about me after my interview? Hexagram 44 is kind of negative, I am not expecting much of a job offer from them. Am I right? can I have some hope?
Please, If any of you out there can help with this ambiguous response.
Thanks.
ET