The Guideway Through Mountains and Seas - has anyone read or sudied it?

[cal val]

Hi

Has anyone read or studied this?

"A Chinese Bestiary" by Richard Strassberg (which is The Guideway Through Mountains and Seas with his comments) finally came in at the library, and I was there to pick it up when I posted here Saturday. Hilary, have you read it yet. It's very interesting to compare what he says about early Chinese religious beliefs compared to what Michael Puett says.

It's a fascinating book. Since it was written around the same time the Yi was compiled, it's shed a whole new light on the people and the period for me, and I'm in a bit of whirlwind now regarding the Yi.

Love,

Val

 

[yly2pg1]

Shan_Hai_Jing?

For me, the original book (in Chinese) is basically boring.

The book i have is a version of "translation" from scientific point of view.

Several interesting points:

(1)The author is estimating the value of "li" (miles literally) by our current measurement unit.

(2)The "text" in Shan_Hai_Jing for various animals etc has a hidden meaning.

(3)The landscape (Mountains and Seas) is drawn out to predict the "time zone" of earth.

(4)DI and his "people" and "enemy" is seen as the immigrant from outer space.

Since it was written around the same time the Yi was compiled, the author believes the ancient people a reference to refer to. This notion is shared by some of ancient renowned scholar of Shan_Hai_Jing. In fact, no one know exactly how to relate its content to what we know currently.

 

[hilary]

Agreeing with Yly2pg1! Not that I can read the Chinese, but I did get the Penguin translation out of the library once, and gave up after a dozen or so nearly-identical chapters. Anne Birrell (who also wrote the translation) quotes from it quite a lot in her Chinese Mythology, and so far I have sort-of relied on her to find the interesting parts. Sounds as though Richard Strassberg's comments are good stuff, though. OK, that's probably another one for the Amazon wishlist.

About when it was written... maybe during the period when the Yijing was compiled, by the sounds of it. Quoting Anne B:

'This is an anonymous work of mixed authorship and dating, compiled in the late Chou and the Han periods from earlier source material. After then Ch'u "Questions of Heaven," this text is the second most valuable source of classical myths. R?mi Mathieu, who has made a special study of this classic, dates its first five chapters to the third century BC, chapters 6-13 to the second century BC, and the last five chapters to the Latter Han period, circa the first century AD.'

So round about the time of the Wings, then. Though she does also say that the purpose of the work was 'to gather together, and so preserve, a vast repertoire of mythic narratives about various parts of China.' So goodness knows when the traditions themselves might actually date from.

 

[yly2pg1]

Any findings of 履帝 (Li Di) and Hexagram 10?

 

[cal val]

Hi Yly2pg1 and Hilary...

First chance I've had to respond to you in days... and still I'm rushed. So... quickly... with apologies.

The book I'm reading is not 'scientific' but it's very scholarly. It does not contain the complete "Guideways" either (which is next on my wish list) but is rather a textbook about its history and about early Chinese religious beliefs and practices. I'm so glad I checked it out of the library. Now that I'm reading it, considering how ignorant I am of the ancient Chinese, I can't imagine reading The Guideways without having read it first.

The author, Richard Strassberg, approaches the subject from the closest to a 'purely objective' viewpoint I've read in a long time. I'm really enjoying the book.

He concurs with you both that:

The li is estimated.

The landscape represents time zones.

It is meant as a spiritual guide and not as an actual geographic guide.

It is an anonymous work of mixed dating and authorship. In addition it survived the Qin book burning.

And I'm finding it is answering a lot of my questions that I think will help me understand the Yi better. It describes the Gods in each region and and describes the proper sacrific to each... such as the bird-bodied-dragon-headed gods who occupy the Southern Mountains require a sacrifice of a hairy animal with offerings of glutinous rice, unhulled rice, and burial of a jade blade and disc... using mats of white rushes for the ceremony.

And there's so much more of course.

So Ylypg1... what is the connection between Li Di and hexagram 10?

Love,

Val

 

[yly2pg1]

He concurs with you both that:

Let compare some interesting points from the book i have:

(1)The li is estimated.
A "li" is estimated at 0.4km

(2)The landscape represents time zones.

(3)It is meant as a spiritual guide and not as an actual geographic guide.
I 'glance thru' the book, it is more like a "documentary".

(4)It is an anonymous work of mixed dating and authorship. In addition it survived the Qin book burning.
I Ching too survives Qin book burning. However. to me it does not fit well with the Emperor's projected image

I first come across SHJ in 2002.
I doubt it, but i like the 'scientific' ideas.

 

[cal val]

Hi there Yly2pg1...

I just wanted to drop you a quick note to let you know I'm not ignoring this last post of yours. I'm in one of those high activity periods where I don't have much time to visit the forum and have to be very selective about which threads I read and especially selective about which I post to.

Besides, I've been spending a lot of my free time with my grandson and haven't been able to read much of any of the books I want. We read the books HE wants. Consequently, I can't tell you what Strassberg has determined as the estimate of a li (if he has at all... so far he's only said the cumulative total of 'li'-age between locations in the Guideways 'does not compute' with reality), but I can tell you that A is for All Aboard... B is for....

*grin*

I will write a real response, however, when I've had time to read more of the books *I* want.

Thanks.

Love,

Val

 

[hilary]

Hi Val,

Try Peter Rabbit. That should keep you both happy.

 

[yly2pg1]

Val,

SHJ is not an interesting subject to play with as we can do with I Ching. It takes time to digest, and it is basically boring, especially if you are reading the original Chinese text.

One way to find the momentum to explore is finding the clue in SHJ and relates it to I Ching, for example.

About the Hexagram 10, could be true that Hex10 may be a kind of typical example on the reflection of processes gone through by Jiang Yuan threading along the "Tiger" trail.
My experience of Hex10 is about cautiousness, self reliance and self effort.
Probably this is the same test Jiang Yuan has to go through before Li Di fulfills her wish.

And there is a symbolic meaning for the "tiger". A test or challenge?

 

[yly2pg1]

Jiang Yuan is ultimately granted to deliver the Hou Ji. It is said she is not "happy" with the child (believing that the child will bring bad omens). But at few occasions she has failed to abondon the child.

When Hou Ji grows up, he has introduced "systematic" agriculture to the people and to enable the growth of primitive social unit and structure in China.

My opinions:

(1) "Li Di" is in charge of selecting the right candidate to give birth to Hou Ji.

(2) Probably Jiang Yuan is NOY unhappy with Hou Ji. It is just a "final test procedure" to check if the baby adapts well with the earth surroundings.

(3) The "Tiger" is the "test procedure" in selecting the right candidate.

There is a PLAN going on to settle the earthlings into stable social establishment. Agriculture is the tool to achieve the mission to grow a nuclear family.

 

[cal val]

Hi Hilary...

Thanks for the suggestion. He's got a few Beatrix Potter books on his shelves. I'm going to try that Sunday after the movie and dinner... we're seeing "Valiant" together.

He always goes straight for the "Thomas and Friends" books. He's obsessed. In an effort to divert his attention from his obsession a couple of weeks ago, I took a Harry Potter book with me. It's written for a much older crowd... but he enjoyed it all the same. Not only did he tell me to keep reading when I thought he might be bored, but he also corrected my pronunciation. I said 'Podder' (soooo American) and he said 'Pot-ter' (so articulate).

Love,

Val

 

[yly2pg1]

《 山海经。海内东经》：雷泽中有雷神，龙身而人关，鼓其腹，在吴西。