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Why do you think that, could you say a little more?But it doesn’t seem to urge me to act with urgency, but to wait
Hello SuperNatural! And thanks a lot for your reply. Your message has reminded me of my last session with my therapist. I recall telling her, "Sometimes I feel the urge to tell the truth, the whole truth, to both of them. I'd certainly lose them both immediately, but sometimes I feel like I need to do it. Not because I believe it would make things better, but as a kind of act of contrition or penance. A punishment, so to speak. I no longer entertain that possibility, but it's what came to mind while reading your curious and interesting interpretation. Maybe I should regain that feeling, the need for punishment, which could simply be the need to feel the consequences of my actions. The situation is causing me pain, obviously, especially because of the pain I cause. But I can't help but see a bit of childish frivolity in my behavior. Perhaps I need a reality check.Hello Misswasabi!
I'd like to add some food for thought. However, before I do that, let me do this.
Disclaimer: The following posts presents an interpretation of the 21st hexagram of the I Ching, which is a symbolic and philosophical system. It is important to note that within certain religious or spiritual contexts, there may be specific practices associated with this hexagram. For instance, a group of priests and priestesses who taught me the I Ching in the mid 90s, used to interpret this hexagram as a sign that they needed to perform rituals aimed at addressing and countering the subject of the question. The use of such rituals, however, depends on personal beliefs, cultural traditions, and specific circumstances, and should be approached with careful consideration and respect for individual perspectives.
It is in this context that the 21st hexagram serves as an affirmation for resorting to punitive actions in certain situations. This was deemed necessary because there exist individuals who refuse to compromise, adapt, or improve their behaviors, causing harm to both themselves and others. In certain situations, consequences are required to drive behaviors and to influence change. In the 6th hexagram we are looking at arbitration. In the 21st, we are looking at punitive consequences.
I hope this helps.
Hello Liselle, and thank you for your insights on my reading. I had a feeling that hexagram 21 was suggesting the importance of finding the truth before taking action. Thus, my conclusion was not to act immediately, but upon further reflection, it might actually make more sense to approach it the other way around. Fear seems to play a significant role in this situation, and initially, I thought I should set aside my fears to make a better decision. However, your idea of embracing and acknowledging my fears is quite revolutionary to me, as I tend to avoid facing them altogether.Why do you think that, could you say a little more?
21 doesn't sound like that to me, quite the opposite. It's chewing and gnawing through with vigor, like a dog with a bone.
I think it can also mean fear. The dog is afraid of losing his bone; you might be afraid of losing your marriage. Both the Oracle and the Image mention legal proceedings and punishments:
'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'
'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'
Maybe let yourself be afraid, in other words. Make sure you feel it. Don't let it fade. Decisiveness might follow.
....21 uc is pretty clear and sharp. Make a clear decision in terms of the right thing to do. The right thing to do can't be lying to your husband. And you already made a clear decision when you married. I wonder if you have even spent real life time in person with this other man. If not then you don't have a relationship with the other guy anyway do you ?I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging, which seems to simply describe my situation, maybe the urge to solve it, to act upon my situation. I know that, and every day I decide I will do something about it, but I don’t, and keep on lying and covering and doing weird things to balance both relationships and failing.
Surely the truth is in front of you. You are deceiving your husband which is wrong. That's the truth. The rest is fantasy. Not sure what you find difficult about this really because if you compare how well you know your husband, you know for a fact who your husband is and you know he is kind and caring and you don't even know this other guy then why on earth would you ruin your marriage for that. 21 is a wake up I think and asking you to consider the law in all senses both legally and in terms simply of what is right and wrong. So I think you need to examine yourself in those terms not what you think you may or may not like or in terms of what is and isn't wrong with you psychologically.. I had a feeling that hexagram 21 was suggesting the importance of finding the truth before taking action.
I would think long and hard about this. I don't think 21 means you should go out of your way to punish yourself and ruin your life on purpose as an act of penance, I think it could mean if you don't get to grips with what you're doing, you'll be punished. There's a difference. You've said you have a good marriage - I think the fear you need to internalize is that you could lose it.Hello SuperNatural! And thanks a lot for your reply. Your message has reminded me of my last session with my therapist. I recall telling her, "Sometimes I feel the urge to tell the truth, the whole truth, to both of them. I'd certainly lose them both immediately, but sometimes I feel like I need to do it. Not because I believe it would make things better, but as a kind of act of contrition or penance. A punishment, so to speak. I no longer entertain that possibility, but it's what came to mind while reading your curious and interesting interpretation. Maybe I should regain that feeling, the need for punishment, which could simply be the need to feel the consequences of my actions. The situation is causing me pain, obviously, especially because of the pain I cause. But I can't help but see a bit of childish frivolity in my behavior. Perhaps I need a reality check.
You also said he was 'amazing' I thinkMy husband is caring, loving, and we share many interests,
So you mean you have told your husband about this man?I'm open with my husband about my feelings, telling him that I don't understand why I feel this way, but I can't control my emotions.
Where do you get the idea you need to wait ? It's not there at all. 21 is about processes of justice, law, biting through not sitting in emotion being helpless. You say 'both relationships' and again I wonder how much face to face engagement you have had with this other guy and how well you even know him ? If you don't know him well there aren't 'both relationships' there is one real relationship and one potential one which if you believe in marriage at all isn't even a potential.I know that, and every day I decide I will do something about it, but I don’t, and keep on lying and covering and doing weird things to balance both relationships and failing. But it doesn’t seem to urge me to act with urgency, but to wait,
21 pulls you up short then as it's saying to decide on the legality, the ethics of the situation.I find myself oscillating between wanting to act on the situation urgently and waiting for things to somehow resolve themselves.
How can your relationship with your husband be 'transitional' when you married him? The 56.6 is you burning down your own nest by messing with the other guy.The reading about my husband seems to suggest a transitional situation. It might feel good initially, but there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.
On the other hand, the reading about the other guy appears to be auspicious and advises being receptive to the situation.
In this situation, do you have a clear view of the answers you received or is it colored by your preference for this other man?What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.
What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.
The reading about my husband seems to suggest a transitional situation. It might feel good initially, but there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.
On the other hand, the reading about the other guy appears to be auspicious and advises being receptive to the situation.
Hi Trojina,....21 uc is pretty clear and sharp. Make a clear decision in terms of the right thing to do. The right thing to do can't be lying to your husband. And you already made a clear decision when you married. I wonder if you have even spent real life time in person with this other man. If not then you don't have a relationship with the other guy anyway do you ?
Surely the truth is in front of you. You are deceiving your husband which is wrong. That's the truth. The rest is fantasy. Not sure what you find difficult about this really because if you compare how well you know your husband, you know for a fact who your husband is and you know he is kind and caring and you don't even know this other guy then why on earth would you ruin your marriage for that. 21 is a wake up I think and asking you to consider the law in all senses both legally and in terms simply of what is right and wrong. So I think you need to examine yourself in those terms not what you think you may or may not like or in terms of what is and isn't wrong with you psychologically.
So that's your main concern here.
It's not complicated at all BTW, you wouldn't have cast 21uc here if it was. This is pretty simple it's about choosing whether to deceive someone or not. LDRs (where people don't spend a great deal of time together) are often comfortably based on what each imagines the other to be...I mean ldrs with zero actual contact.
You keep presenting this as an impossible situation but have 21uc showing you need to bite through incisively to the truth. That means fully engaging rational thinking in order to get to the truth and the truth will be the right thing to do.I don't take the decision lightly, and I know it's a complex situation that requires careful consideration. I don't want to deceive anyone, but I also can't ignore my feelings.
My husband is caring, loving, and we share many interests, but I somehow got involved with a man who seems to be going through a rough patch in his life. He's jobless, lives with his mother, and has a habit of starting projects and never finishing them. Despite his flaws, I'm inexplicably in love with him, and I can't seem to shake these feelings.
Notice there is no auspice given in this line for good or ill. I now take 'do not doubt' not to always mean 'have faith in this because it's good', I see it more as 'do not doubt because this influence is real and makes real things happen'. I have seen it refer to a charismatic person who is able to gather new friends and contacts constantly by enthusing them with all kinds of shared goals and interests. However she also rather ruthlessly deletes them from her phone regularly too. The capacity to enthuse and inspire others is a neutral capacity which can be used for good causes but equally may not be.
Applied to oneself the same must be true. With this line one need not doubt that one will make things happen, the personal power and charisma is there. What is dreamed of can be made real. Line 4 here is the only solid line in 16. Wishes can take form here. This doesn't always mean the highest good is served. Whilst thinking on this 'The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler' came on TV. An extreme example but he was able to gather people and inspire them but not for the greater good.
but I somehow got involved with a man who seems to be going through a rough patch in his life. He's jobless, lives with his mother, and has a habit of starting projects and never finishing them. Despite his flaws, I'm inexplicably in love with him, and I can't seem to shake these feelings.
How to make a decision? Make a decision based on the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging,
I'd say, if you leave him like that, you'll regret it very badly later.What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.
I am not sure about this one. 16.4 can show your attraction and connection. The result hexagram is 2, so I doubt there will be any substantial thing beyond some emotional encounters.What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.
If I approach this situation rationally, it becomes evident that staying with my husband is the most sensible choice. However, the emotional connection I share with Mr. X has deeply impacted my relationship with my husband. Regrettably, I don't feel the desire for intimacy with my husband, and I find myself unintentionally blaming him for hindering me from pursuing my affair (I'm aware of how selfish this may sound, and I'm struggling with these conflicting emotions). Realistically, the prospects with Mr. X seem quite bleak given our current circumstances. Nevertheless, I can't help but fantasize about a simple and happy life with him in his small town, if only he would also find a job.You keep presenting this as an impossible situation but have 21uc showing you need to bite through incisively to the truth. That means fully engaging rational thinking in order to get to the truth and the truth will be the right thing to do.
Perhaps you need to fully think this through to it's conclusion in terms of what impacts your decision to leave your husband and go with this man you met twice will have. I mean practically. So look at this, this is something to think about in a 21 incisive way.
So if you make the decision to leave your husband who you say is caring, loving and who shares your interests for this man I'll call MrX you met twice well it follows you'd need to consider
1. Where will you live ? If you leave your husband are you going to go and live in Mr Xs mother's house ?
2. How will you manage with the loss of your caring loving husband? Might you miss him while living in Mr X's bedroom in his mother's house? I mean if you go with Mr X you will have to leave your home as you can't expect your husband to leave his own house so Mr X can move in.
3. You don't know Mr X and so it's a mighty big sacrifice to give up your home and your caring husband to go to him or to find another home where you can see him. All you know is you have feelings. Well feelings aren't everything and they don't always lead to real fulfilment, this is where the teeth of 21 come in handy to save you from disaster. But if you put these feelings you attribute to Mr X above your home and marriage, well it's your choice but as outsider it looks like one completely crazy plan to me. In fact I'm not sure you've got a plan but you will need to have one if you are leaving your home and marriage. So I'm not saying this for the sake of it but trying to show what using 21 might be for you here in making a decision.
4. You can't go on lying as your husband has the right to withdraw from you if you are cheating on him. He needs to know so he can make his own plans otherwise it's really not fair on him. Thinking about what is fair is central to 21, it ties in to doing what is right and the processes of law. Which matters more being fair to him or your feelings? Yi says with 21uc put aside the feelings that can come and go like clouds in the wind, cut through complication and messiness and get very clear about what is fair to your husband here.
BTW I have had experiences with 16.4 which definitely had a dark side. I will copy my wiki entry. Here it is
How do you know Mr X isn't a charming sociopath? How do you know he isn't just a charmer, how do you know he doesn't have a number of other women that he sees ? You don't know yet are willing to lose your home and husband because you are experiencing strong emotions around Mr X. You experiencing strong emotions doesn't appear to me be enough to go on to declare your marriage null and void. You can explore the strong emotions without risking losing your husband and home surely and without being unfaithful.
So 21 is asking you to step away from the feelings for a second and think this through. Chew on it, ponder it. To me to be honest it looks like an absolute no brainer. You don't even know Mr X and you are happily married but think it's worth leaving for a man you met twice ? You can feel all the feelings but be aware they may not have a great deal to do with Mr X himself at all, they can just be your feelings, something arising in you. But you have to step aside and be sharp and clear about this and as far as I can see, and this is my own perspective I really do not see it as a viable option to give it all up for Mr X.
You said about Mr X
I think the red flag there is he starts things he doesn't finish...big plans zero commitment. Sounds very 16.4, lots of enthusiasm and pulling people into things he just doesn't carry through. What makes you think he will go through with things he promises you? 16.4 isn't always this way btw, there is more positive side when it's referring to being proactive and such but looking at that cast as a factor/ reason to go to MrX and 56.6 as a reason to leave your husband just doesn't hold. If you are now betraying your husband then stop and either tell him or leave. You do have to decide one or the other for his sake and that is the nub of 21. You're saying you have this powerful feelings you have to obey and Yi is telling you to be clear thinking and act fairly with clarity, making decisions based on truth. So whether you decide to go or stay being truthful is a priority now.
If you don't think 21 is about that then I don't know what you do think it's about? You have been answered very directly
How to make a decision? Make a decision based on the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
I appreciate your thoughtful analysis and concerns regarding the interpretation of the answers I received. You make valid points about the potential bias and preference I may have for the other man, and how it could affect my understanding of the responses from the oracle.In this situation, do you have a clear view of the answers you received or is it colored by your preference for this other man?
It occurs to me that you have the interpretation in favor of the other man, even though the text says otherwise.
56.6 is in my opinion a clear indication not to do something, namely not to burn the nest: home and security.
You explain 556.6 yourself as "there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.", but the text clearly says "But later he weeps and wails. He loses a cow in the field. Misfortune."
You tone down this second part considerably, which of course is totally fine, but the question is why?
H16.4 seems positive, but is it really? Or is the answer more convenient for you?
H16 is about enthusiasm, but when we are enthusiastic about something we also often get carried away, trying to convince ourselves and others of something and always looking for arguments that confirm our point. We don't want to hear the cons and counter arguments.
I think 16.4 shows that. The change to H2 shows the importance of being open en receptive to other voices.
So the question is whether it is wise to let such an important decision depend on the oracle's answer when you are not sure you understand the answer?
If you told your husband the truth he wouldn't be hindering you would he. He'd let you go so he could get on with his own life and find someone who loves him. I hope he does.However, the emotional connection I share with Mr. X has deeply impacted my relationship with my husband. Regrettably, I don't feel the desire for intimacy with my husband, and I find myself unintentionally blaming him for hindering me from pursuing my affair
That resonates deeply with me... Actually, my therapist has pointed out something similar that I am exploring with him. Growing up in a family with a history of addiction, I am conscious of my addictive personality and always try to make a conscious effort to keep it under control, determined not to follow the same path.Sounds like the online guy situation is a trauma bond connection.
Hex 21un - Biting through.
Your situation isn't about choosing one man over the other, it's about cracking open what's really going on for you as a person that's caused you to put yourself in this situation.
56.6>62 - stop being careless with your marriage or you could lose it with great loss.
Marybluesky,Misswasabi,
I feel your emotional turmoil and it's a noble act of yours to try to make the right decision despite all difficulties.
To me hexagram 21 sounds like some difficult journey you can't avoid as that's the only way the problem can be solved.
I'd say, if you leave him like that, you'll regret it very badly later.
I am not sure about this one. 16.4 can show your attraction and connection. The result hexagram is 2, so I doubt there will be any substantial thing beyond some emotional encounters.
21 also talks about legal proceedings... can you see a marriage counselor with your husband? Or take some time apart in order to sort your emotions out?
Really ? Isn't it very clear? At least I thought I had explained it clearly. Perhaps we need the actual words of Yi hereWhat I find hard to understand is the part about "legal proceedings." I'm not really sure what it could be referring to.
So Yi answered that as clearly as it possibly can. I've explained what 'legal processes' are here - same as in law, deciding the truth, what is right and wrong. I went into that at length. I went into detail about making the decision according to legal process and one thing that most certainly is not is foundering in emotion and self analysis. In court the jury doesn't decide a verdict on emotions but on the law and that is what you being advised is a good basis for decision.I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging,
Just so as not to skip over this if you did have Dissociative Identity Disorder I can't think it would be good for you to place your entire life in the hands of MrX who you don't know well at all.I've also sought help from mental health professionals who suggested that I might have a mild Dissociative Identity Disorder or that I'm struggling with my decision-making abilities. Regardless of the reason, I know I need to put an end to this.
No, not at all. I express what I feel and how I feel it to be better understood, but I wouldn't come to this forum to share my problems if I didn't think it would influence me in any way. I've been reading this forum for years, sometimes without participating, because it's full of people with very good judgment, not only interpreting the I Ching. There are wise people here from whom I've learned a lot and who, perhaps unknowingly, have helped me greatly in complicated situations in my life. If I've raised this issue here, it's to take into account the voices that have kindly decided to give their opinion. Don't really understand why you said that.I'll know not to respond in the future. Sounds like you know your truth but it doesn't matter what anyone says you're going to do what you want anyway.
Thank you again, Trojina, for your incredible analytical skills. When I asked how to make my decision, I was inquiring about the aspects I should consider and those I should not. I hoped for a different perspective or some form of inspiration. Once you've carefully weighed all the pros and cons and still find yourself unsure of what to do, more information won't necessarily help you decide. I also don't see my decision as merely choosing between two men, as if I were picking between two seats. I am seriously contemplating other options, such as being alone and dedicating time to rebuilding myself, stopping the harm caused to others by my own problems, since it may be the fair thing to do. It's something I've ruled out because of the practical aspects ofsplitting up my husband would have to endure. If we splitted up, his situation, practically speaking, would be worse than mine. I earn more money, and the apartment we live in is one that I rented and he wouldn't be able to afford even if I handed it over to him. In reality, I am protecting him more than myself, on that regard, as I am also aware of his economic vulnerability. But yeah, now I fully grasp the concept of 'legal proceedingsas you explained it. Thank you so much; you gave lots of food for thought.Really ? Isn't it very clear? At least I thought I had explained it clearly. Perhaps we need the actual words of Yi here
Oracle
'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'
Image
'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'
Your question was this
So Yi answered that as clearly as it possibly can. I've explained what 'legal processes' are here - same as in law, deciding the truth, what is right and wrong. I went into that at length. I went into detail about making the decision according to legal process and one thing that most certainly is not is foundering in emotion and self analysis. In court the jury doesn't decide a verdict on emotions but on the law and that is what you being advised is a good basis for decision.
You are attached to seeing this as complicated and all about your inner workings and what you want but the fact is you are lying to two people but the most important person you are lying to is your husband. Why are you letting that go go on? Because you don't know which option you like the best ? That's what it comes down to.
Also although the question a good clear one 'how to make a decision' I'm not sure what that decision involves? Is it a decision between leaving your husband very soon and going to Mr X's mum's or staying with your husband and dropping Mr X ? I guess so, I guess that's what your decision is between. I'm highly doubtful that you are going to leave your husband, I just can't see it given I think you'd risk too much not least the fact you may lose him for good so it looks like you want to stay in both worlds, you want to stay with your husband whilst having the relationship with Mr X. But you can't do that as it's dishonest and having lots of feelings doesn't reduce that fact it only obscures or justifies it. That's 21 and 'legal processes' right there. You're trying to do the opposite by thinking about it all only in terms of your own emotions, but that is not the advice of 21 at all.
You didn't say what the decision was specifically, only in terms of your feelings, decisions in terms of your feelings. But what about the actual decisions of leaving ? I asked where you were going to live for example? I'm trying to ascertain how this decision is going to be enacted as right now I find it hard to envisage you packing your bags next week and leaving. So practically how is this decision going to manifest? There's no mystery as to what 21 is saying here, you need to be truthful and clear. If you see it as other than that, if you see it as needing more time, I think you're avoiding the reply.
I can't see you have any practical intentions of leaving your husband so I think the idea this is about an actual decision on your part isn't really the case. Again 21, you aren't even telling the truth to yourself so try to do that. You're aren't going to be packing your bags any time soon are you so what role does MrX really have for you?
'Drawn out enthusiasm.
There will be a big haul.
Have no doubt.
Cowries?
Why not?
Put them on your clip.' *
* The figure here is of the cowries being tacked down like hair in a hair clip. Compare to 23.5, that compares cultivating the Shang courtiers to putting fish on a string.
➂The object of our ambitions is visible. It is time to compose ourselves for battle.
➃But war cannot be entered into with cold blood. Enthusiasm will be needed, and needed for a protracted time. Wealth may be taken, but note that cowries is also the word used for friends. Nothing makes friends like winning; this is also an opportunity to further build our alliance.
➌ Staring enthusiasm.
Trouble walking slowly.
There will be trouble.
➍Drawn out enthusiasm.
There will be a big haul.
Have no doubt.
Cowries?
Why not?
Put them on your clip.
Shells of certain species have historically been used as currency in several parts of the world [...] The cowrie was the shell most widely used worldwide as shell money [...] Starting over three thousand years ago, cowrie shells, or copies of the shells, were used as Chinese currency [...] The Classical Chinese character for money (貝) originated as a stylized drawing of a Maldivian cowrie shell.[8] Words and characters concerning money, property or wealth usually have this as a radical. Before the Spring and Autumn period the cowrie was used as a type of trade token awarding access to a feudal lord's resources to a worthy vassal.
Hello,Hello Misswasabi,
I cannot really give you relationship advice, not knowing you, your husband or the other guy in any way...
just a few notes on your readings:
Like others said before, I do not see 21 UC as a call for waiting - if anything, the opposite, "Biting Through" would rather point to the need to the need to resolve this situation, to apply energy and effort to find a resolution. The fact that it is unchanging underlines this to me, it says IMO "this is all the answer you need, focus on it."
So you feel that you are unable to make this decision, but the fact that you have received 21 as answer could be saying that the Yi tells you "You CAN make this decision".
So maybe you need just more trust in yourself and your intuition and intellect? Deep down, you probably know what is the right decision for you, so you may just need to go and find it for yourself.
You asked then:
What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.
In general terms (as others have commented already) it seems to me a warning to not burn your bridges prematurely, you are currently a wanderer between different worlds, which includes insecurity and vulnerability. It is better to err on the side of caution and rectitude than on the opposite. The image of 62 is saying:
"Thus in his conduct the superior man gives preponderance to reverence.
In bereavement he gives preponderance to grief.
In his expenditures he gives preponderance to thrift."
What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.
You interpret this a being positive for the relationship but I think it talks about something else: Actually, I think both the Hex text and the moving line are recommending you to find a support system, friends or family, people you can help you in this situation, which might turn out one way or another.
So maybe you need to focus more on your own emotional security than on this either/or decision. The conflict between different men may well be only an expression of a deeper confusion that might need to be addressed, and for that you may need supporters.
Hope to help you!
Is it line 2 or line 4? Also who are you quoting there?Nevertheless, he description of Line 2, "becoming one with the Enthusiasm, losing our individuality, being possessed by the god"
Hello Liselle,Is it line 2 or line 4? Also who are you quoting there?
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