pathological inability to make a decision hex. 21

[misswasabi]

Hello everyone,

I hope you are all doing well. I wanted to share something with you and seek some advice or understanding. Over the past year, I've found myself in a difficult situation, and it's causing me a lot of emotional turmoil. I have been having a romantic relationship with a man I met online, despite being married to an amazing man.

I know what I'm doing is wrong, and it's hurting both of them and myself. I don't want to continue down this path, but I find myself drawn to this other man. It's become a complicated situation, and I'm seeking therapy to understand why I sought an escape from my seemingly perfect life.

My husband is caring, loving, and we share many interests, but I somehow got involved with a man who seems to be going through a rough patch in his life. He's jobless, lives with his mother, and has a habit of starting projects and never finishing them. Despite his flaws, I'm inexplicably in love with him, and I can't seem to shake these feelings.

This long-distance relationship with the other man is challenging, given his circumstances. I know it's unrealistic, but I can't help but fantasize about it. At times, I feel overwhelmed and conflicted. On one hand, I want to fix my marriage and forget about the other guy, but on the other hand, there's something driving me towards this complicated situation.

I'm aware that I'm making mistakes, and I'm open with my husband about my feelings, telling him that I don't understand why I feel this way, but I can't control my emotions. I've also sought help from mental health professionals who suggested that I might have a mild Dissociative Identity Disorder or that I'm struggling with my decision-making abilities. Regardless of the reason, I know I need to put an end to this.

I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging, which seems to simply describe my situation, maybe the urge to solve it, to act upon my situation. I know that, and every day I decide I will do something about it, but I don’t, and keep on lying and covering and doing weird things to balance both relationships and failing. But it doesn’t seem to urge me to act with urgency, but to wait, which sounds crazy, for this has been going on for too long now. It just seems to describe my situation without giving a clear direction. I find myself oscillating between wanting to act on the situation urgently and waiting for things to somehow resolve themselves.



also asked what I should do about my relationship with them, and here are the readings I received:

What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.

What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.

The reading about my husband seems to suggest a transitional situation. It might feel good initially, but there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.

On the other hand, the reading about the other guy appears to be auspicious and advises being receptive to the situation.

Based on these readings, it seems that the situation with my husband might not be sustainable in the long run, and it could lead to a difficult ending. As for the other guy, the reading indicates positive aspects, but it's essential to remain open and receptive.

I want to approach these readings with caution and not make hasty decisions solely based on them. I know that I need to take responsibility for my actions and emotions and work towards finding a resolution that is fair to everyone involved.

I'm sharing all of this with you because I feel lost and confused. I know deep down that I need to stop this destructive behaviour, but I'm struggling to take the necessary steps. I want to do the right thing for everyone involved, but I'm feeling trapped and unsure of how to proceed.

If anyone has any advice to offer, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for listening and for any insights you may have.

 

[SuperNatural]

Hello Misswasabi!

I'd like to add some food for thought. However, before I do that, let me do this.

Disclaimer: The following posts presents an interpretation of the 21st hexagram of the I Ching, which is a symbolic and philosophical system. It is important to note that within certain religious or spiritual contexts, there may be specific practices associated with this hexagram. For instance, a group of priests and priestesses who taught me the I Ching in the mid 90s, used to interpret this hexagram as a sign that they needed to perform rituals aimed at addressing and countering the subject of the question. The use of such rituals, however, depends on personal beliefs, cultural traditions, and specific circumstances, and should be approached with careful consideration and respect for individual perspectives.

It is in this context that the 21st hexagram serves as an affirmation for resorting to punitive actions in certain situations. This was deemed necessary because there exist individuals who refuse to compromise, adapt, or improve their behaviors, causing harm to both themselves and others. In certain situations, consequences are required to drive behaviors and to influence change. In the 6th hexagram we are looking at arbitration. In the 21st, we are looking at punitive consequences.

I hope this helps.

 

[Liselle]

But it doesn’t seem to urge me to act with urgency, but to wait

Why do you think that, could you say a little more?

21 doesn't sound like that to me, quite the opposite. It's chewing and gnawing through with vigor, like a dog with a bone.

I think it can also mean fear. The dog is afraid of losing his bone; you might be afraid of losing your marriage. Both the Oracle and the Image mention legal proceedings and punishments:

'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'

'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'

Maybe let yourself be afraid, in other words. Make sure you feel it. Don't let it fade. Decisiveness might follow.

 

[misswasabi]

Hello Misswasabi!

I'd like to add some food for thought. However, before I do that, let me do this.

Disclaimer: The following posts presents an interpretation of the 21st hexagram of the I Ching, which is a symbolic and philosophical system. It is important to note that within certain religious or spiritual contexts, there may be specific practices associated with this hexagram. For instance, a group of priests and priestesses who taught me the I Ching in the mid 90s, used to interpret this hexagram as a sign that they needed to perform rituals aimed at addressing and countering the subject of the question. The use of such rituals, however, depends on personal beliefs, cultural traditions, and specific circumstances, and should be approached with careful consideration and respect for individual perspectives.

It is in this context that the 21st hexagram serves as an affirmation for resorting to punitive actions in certain situations. This was deemed necessary because there exist individuals who refuse to compromise, adapt, or improve their behaviors, causing harm to both themselves and others. In certain situations, consequences are required to drive behaviors and to influence change. In the 6th hexagram we are looking at arbitration. In the 21st, we are looking at punitive consequences.

I hope this helps.

Hello SuperNatural! And thanks a lot for your reply. Your message has reminded me of my last session with my therapist. I recall telling her, "Sometimes I feel the urge to tell the truth, the whole truth, to both of them. I'd certainly lose them both immediately, but sometimes I feel like I need to do it. Not because I believe it would make things better, but as a kind of act of contrition or penance. A punishment, so to speak. I no longer entertain that possibility, but it's what came to mind while reading your curious and interesting interpretation. Maybe I should regain that feeling, the need for punishment, which could simply be the need to feel the consequences of my actions. The situation is causing me pain, obviously, especially because of the pain I cause. But I can't help but see a bit of childish frivolity in my behavior. Perhaps I need a reality check.

 

[misswasabi]

Why do you think that, could you say a little more?

21 doesn't sound like that to me, quite the opposite. It's chewing and gnawing through with vigor, like a dog with a bone.

I think it can also mean fear. The dog is afraid of losing his bone; you might be afraid of losing your marriage. Both the Oracle and the Image mention legal proceedings and punishments:

'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'

'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'

Maybe let yourself be afraid, in other words. Make sure you feel it. Don't let it fade. Decisiveness might follow.

Hello Liselle, and thank you for your insights on my reading. I had a feeling that hexagram 21 was suggesting the importance of finding the truth before taking action. Thus, my conclusion was not to act immediately, but upon further reflection, it might actually make more sense to approach it the other way around. Fear seems to play a significant role in this situation, and initially, I thought I should set aside my fears to make a better decision. However, your idea of embracing and acknowledging my fears is quite revolutionary to me, as I tend to avoid facing them altogether.

At times, I've entertained the thought that if I were to go all-in with the new guy and leave my husband, I might suddenly realize the magnitude of the mistake I made, but by then, it would be too late. This certainty of the potential regret is what freezes me in indecision and prevents me from moving in any direction. When I speak with the other guy, my mind changes again, and I start contemplating summoning the courage to end things with my husband. This cycle seems never-ending.

Honestly, I wouldn't want this situation to end with one of them falling ill and leaving me. For once, I wish I had the courage to confront my truth and take a stand. If only I could discover what the truth really is.

 

[Trojina]

Have you actually ever even met this other man?

 

[Trojina]

I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging, which seems to simply describe my situation, maybe the urge to solve it, to act upon my situation. I know that, and every day I decide I will do something about it, but I don’t, and keep on lying and covering and doing weird things to balance both relationships and failing.

....21 uc is pretty clear and sharp. Make a clear decision in terms of the right thing to do. The right thing to do can't be lying to your husband. And you already made a clear decision when you married. I wonder if you have even spent real life time in person with this other man. If not then you don't have a relationship with the other guy anyway do you ?

. I had a feeling that hexagram 21 was suggesting the importance of finding the truth before taking action.

Surely the truth is in front of you. You are deceiving your husband which is wrong. That's the truth. The rest is fantasy. Not sure what you find difficult about this really because if you compare how well you know your husband, you know for a fact who your husband is and you know he is kind and caring and you don't even know this other guy then why on earth would you ruin your marriage for that. 21 is a wake up I think and asking you to consider the law in all senses both legally and in terms simply of what is right and wrong. So I think you need to examine yourself in those terms not what you think you may or may not like or in terms of what is and isn't wrong with you psychologically.

So that's your main concern here.

It's not complicated at all BTW, you wouldn't have cast 21uc here if it was. This is pretty simple it's about choosing whether to deceive someone or not. LDRs (where people don't spend a great deal of time together) are often comfortably based on what each imagines the other to be...I mean ldrs with zero actual contact.

 

[Liselle]

Hello SuperNatural! And thanks a lot for your reply. Your message has reminded me of my last session with my therapist. I recall telling her, "Sometimes I feel the urge to tell the truth, the whole truth, to both of them. I'd certainly lose them both immediately, but sometimes I feel like I need to do it. Not because I believe it would make things better, but as a kind of act of contrition or penance. A punishment, so to speak. I no longer entertain that possibility, but it's what came to mind while reading your curious and interesting interpretation. Maybe I should regain that feeling, the need for punishment, which could simply be the need to feel the consequences of my actions. The situation is causing me pain, obviously, especially because of the pain I cause. But I can't help but see a bit of childish frivolity in my behavior. Perhaps I need a reality check.

I would think long and hard about this. I don't think 21 means you should go out of your way to punish yourself and ruin your life on purpose as an act of penance, I think it could mean if you don't get to grips with what you're doing, you'll be punished. There's a difference. You've said you have a good marriage - I think the fear you need to internalize is that you could lose it.

Also, don't assume 16.4 is an endorsement just because it sounds nice superficially. That can be very misleading.

Notice there's no omen. Yi does not say it's good or bad. But it's part of hexagram 16 which can be about imaginings, or as both you and Trojina said, fantasy and fantasizing. 16 can get carried away by the story it's telling. Sometimes that's good, but in this situation I don't think it is.

You asked what you should do, though. Maybe Yi meant you should gather together everything you know about the other man, and make it real in your mind. 16 changing to 2 - imagine it manifested. From what you've said, it seems to me this wouldn't hold up well.

I can understand that just because your life seems perfect doesn't mean it feels that way. That's something to think about, and you're seeing someone to try, right?

That could be part of 21, too. Keep trying to get to the bottom of it, why you're unhappy. Try to figure out what might fix it.

 

[Trojina]

Also if 22 is a marriage celebration or ritual, the outward symbol or expression of it then 21 as it's pair can be seen as the binding contractual reality of it.

You say you have pathological indecision but that's because you aren't noting you have already decided, made that contract, made that commitment and that that meant something, it wasn't empty words. Part of the point of those vows is surely you are free of indecision about who to be with, you've entered a binding contract, binding in law and more importantly binding emotionally and spiritually depending on your beliefs. It doesn't need saying sometimes things just don't work out and that 21 contract can no longer be honoured. But you have said your marriage is good, you said

My husband is caring, loving, and we share many interests,

You also said he was 'amazing' I think

I'm open with my husband about my feelings, telling him that I don't understand why I feel this way, but I can't control my emotions.

So you mean you have told your husband about this man?

I know that, and every day I decide I will do something about it, but I don’t, and keep on lying and covering and doing weird things to balance both relationships and failing. But it doesn’t seem to urge me to act with urgency, but to wait,

Where do you get the idea you need to wait ? It's not there at all. 21 is about processes of justice, law, biting through not sitting in emotion being helpless. You say 'both relationships' and again I wonder how much face to face engagement you have had with this other guy and how well you even know him ? If you don't know him well there aren't 'both relationships' there is one real relationship and one potential one which if you believe in marriage at all isn't even a potential.

I find myself oscillating between wanting to act on the situation urgently and waiting for things to somehow resolve themselves.

21 pulls you up short then as it's saying to decide on the legality, the ethics of the situation.

The reading about my husband seems to suggest a transitional situation. It might feel good initially, but there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.

On the other hand, the reading about the other guy appears to be auspicious and advises being receptive to the situation.

How can your relationship with your husband be 'transitional' when you married him? The 56.6 is you burning down your own nest by messing with the other guy.

It would be a highly flimsy basis for a relationship if you thought 'ah I will go with that guy because I like the reading better' when you are already married. It's not like choosing between cars is it.

 

[Hans_K]

What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.

What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.

The reading about my husband seems to suggest a transitional situation. It might feel good initially, but there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.

On the other hand, the reading about the other guy appears to be auspicious and advises being receptive to the situation.

In this situation, do you have a clear view of the answers you received or is it colored by your preference for this other man?
It occurs to me that you have the interpretation in favor of the other man, even though the text says otherwise.
56.6 is in my opinion a clear indication not to do something, namely not to burn the nest: home and security.
You explain 556.6 yourself as "there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.", but the text clearly says "But later he weeps and wails. He loses a cow in the field. Misfortune."
You tone down this second part considerably, which of course is totally fine, but the question is why?

H16.4 seems positive, but is it really? Or is the answer more convenient for you?
H16 is about enthusiasm, but when we are enthusiastic about something we also often get carried away, trying to convince ourselves and others of something and always looking for arguments that confirm our point. We don't want to hear the cons and counter arguments.
I think 16.4 shows that. The change to H2 shows the importance of being open en receptive to other voices.

So the question is whether it is wise to let such an important decision depend on the oracle's answer when you are not sure you understand the answer?

 

[misswasabi]

....21 uc is pretty clear and sharp. Make a clear decision in terms of the right thing to do. The right thing to do can't be lying to your husband. And you already made a clear decision when you married. I wonder if you have even spent real life time in person with this other man. If not then you don't have a relationship with the other guy anyway do you ?


Surely the truth is in front of you. You are deceiving your husband which is wrong. That's the truth. The rest is fantasy. Not sure what you find difficult about this really because if you compare how well you know your husband, you know for a fact who your husband is and you know he is kind and caring and you don't even know this other guy then why on earth would you ruin your marriage for that. 21 is a wake up I think and asking you to consider the law in all senses both legally and in terms simply of what is right and wrong. So I think you need to examine yourself in those terms not what you think you may or may not like or in terms of what is and isn't wrong with you psychologically.

So that's your main concern here.

It's not complicated at all BTW, you wouldn't have cast 21uc here if it was. This is pretty simple it's about choosing whether to deceive someone or not. LDRs (where people don't spend a great deal of time together) are often comfortably based on what each imagines the other to be...I mean ldrs with zero actual contact.

Hi Trojina,
I appreciate your input, and I understand that you see the situation as straightforward and clear-cut. Yes, I have met the other guy twice, and while it may not seem like much, those encounters had a significant impact on me. I can't deny that I feel a strong connection and attraction to him, which has left me feeling intoxicated and torn.

I agree with you that the right thing to do cannot be lying to my husband, and I am fully aware of the commitment I made when I married him. Trust me, I'm struggling with this internal conflict between reason and instinct. On one hand, my mind tells me it's wrong to jeopardize my marriage, especially for someone I barely know. On the other hand, my heart feels drawn to this other person, and I can't shake the feelings I have.

The truth is that I know my husband well, and he is kind and caring, but that doesn't negate the emotions I have for the other guy. It's true that I don't know the other guy as well as my husband, but there's an inexplicable connection that I can't ignore. It's not just fantasy; there's a real emotional pull.

I understand that you see Hexagram 21 as a wake-up call to consider what is right and wrong. Believe me, I am wrestling with my conscience. It's not about what I like or dislike; it's about facing the reality of my feelings and the consequences of my actions.

You mentioned that LDRs can be based on imagination, but in my case, it's not entirely true. While it's true that we haven't spent as much time together physically, the emotional connection is real.

I don't take the decision lightly, and I know it's a complex situation that requires careful consideration. I don't want to deceive anyone, but I also can't ignore my feelings.

 

[Trojina]

I don't take the decision lightly, and I know it's a complex situation that requires careful consideration. I don't want to deceive anyone, but I also can't ignore my feelings.

You keep presenting this as an impossible situation but have 21uc showing you need to bite through incisively to the truth. That means fully engaging rational thinking in order to get to the truth and the truth will be the right thing to do.

Perhaps you need to fully think this through to it's conclusion in terms of what impacts your decision to leave your husband and go with this man you met twice will have. I mean practically. So look at this, this is something to think about in a 21 incisive way.

My husband is caring, loving, and we share many interests, but I somehow got involved with a man who seems to be going through a rough patch in his life. He's jobless, lives with his mother, and has a habit of starting projects and never finishing them. Despite his flaws, I'm inexplicably in love with him, and I can't seem to shake these feelings.

So if you make the decision to leave your husband who you say is caring, loving and who shares your interests for this man I'll call MrX you met twice well it follows you'd need to consider

1. Where will you live ? If you leave your husband are you going to go and live in Mr Xs mother's house ?

2. How will you manage with the loss of your caring loving husband? Might you miss him while living in Mr X's bedroom in his mother's house? I mean if you go with Mr X you will have to leave your home as you can't expect your husband to leave his own house so Mr X can move in.

3. You don't know Mr X and so it's a mighty big sacrifice to give up your home and your caring husband to go to him or to find another home where you can see him. All you know is you have feelings. Well feelings aren't everything and they don't always lead to real fulfilment, this is where the teeth of 21 come in handy to save you from disaster. But if you put these feelings you attribute to Mr X above your home and marriage, well it's your choice but as outsider it looks like one completely crazy plan to me. In fact I'm not sure you've got a plan but you will need to have one if you are leaving your home and marriage. So I'm not saying this for the sake of it but trying to show what using 21 might be for you here in making a decision.

4. You can't go on lying as your husband has the right to withdraw from you if you are cheating on him. He needs to know so he can make his own plans otherwise it's really not fair on him. Thinking about what is fair is central to 21, it ties in to doing what is right and the processes of law. Which matters more being fair to him or your feelings? Yi says with 21uc put aside the feelings that can come and go like clouds in the wind, cut through complication and messiness and get very clear about what is fair to your husband here.

BTW I have had experiences with 16.4 which definitely had a dark side. I will copy my wiki entry. Here it is

Notice there is no auspice given in this line for good or ill. I now take 'do not doubt' not to always mean 'have faith in this because it's good', I see it more as 'do not doubt because this influence is real and makes real things happen'. I have seen it refer to a charismatic person who is able to gather new friends and contacts constantly by enthusing them with all kinds of shared goals and interests. However she also rather ruthlessly deletes them from her phone regularly too. The capacity to enthuse and inspire others is a neutral capacity which can be used for good causes but equally may not be.

Applied to oneself the same must be true. With this line one need not doubt that one will make things happen, the personal power and charisma is there. What is dreamed of can be made real. Line 4 here is the only solid line in 16. Wishes can take form here. This doesn't always mean the highest good is served. Whilst thinking on this 'The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler' came on TV. An extreme example but he was able to gather people and inspire them but not for the greater good.

How do you know Mr X isn't a charming sociopath? How do you know he isn't just a charmer, how do you know he doesn't have a number of other women that he sees ? You don't know yet are willing to lose your home and husband because you are experiencing strong emotions around Mr X. You experiencing strong emotions doesn't appear to me be enough to go on to declare your marriage null and void. You can explore the strong emotions without risking losing your husband and home surely and without being unfaithful.

So 21 is asking you to step away from the feelings for a second and think this through. Chew on it, ponder it. To me to be honest it looks like an absolute no brainer. You don't even know Mr X and you are happily married but think it's worth leaving for a man you met twice ? You can feel all the feelings but be aware they may not have a great deal to do with Mr X himself at all, they can just be your feelings, something arising in you. But you have to step aside and be sharp and clear about this and as far as I can see, and this is my own perspective I really do not see it as a viable option to give it all up for Mr X.

You said about Mr X

but I somehow got involved with a man who seems to be going through a rough patch in his life. He's jobless, lives with his mother, and has a habit of starting projects and never finishing them. Despite his flaws, I'm inexplicably in love with him, and I can't seem to shake these feelings.

I think the red flag there is he starts things he doesn't finish...big plans zero commitment. Sounds very 16.4, lots of enthusiasm and pulling people into things he just doesn't carry through. What makes you think he will go through with things he promises you? 16.4 isn't always this way btw, there is more positive side when it's referring to being proactive and such but looking at that cast as a factor/ reason to go to MrX and 56.6 as a reason to leave your husband just doesn't hold. If you are now betraying your husband then stop and either tell him or leave. You do have to decide one or the other for his sake and that is the nub of 21. You're saying you have this powerful feelings you have to obey and Yi is telling you to be clear thinking and act fairly with clarity, making decisions based on truth. So whether you decide to go or stay being truthful is a priority now.

If you don't think 21 is about that then I don't know what you do think it's about? You have been answered very directly

I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging,

How to make a decision? Make a decision based on the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 

[marybluesky]

Misswasabi,

I feel your emotional turmoil and it's a noble act of yours to try to make the right decision despite all difficulties.

To me hexagram 21 sounds like some difficult journey you can't avoid as that's the only way the problem can be solved.

What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.

I'd say, if you leave him like that, you'll regret it very badly later.

What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.

I am not sure about this one. 16.4 can show your attraction and connection. The result hexagram is 2, so I doubt there will be any substantial thing beyond some emotional encounters.

21 also talks about legal proceedings... can you see a marriage counselor with your husband? Or take some time apart in order to sort your emotions out?

 

[misswasabi]

You keep presenting this as an impossible situation but have 21uc showing you need to bite through incisively to the truth. That means fully engaging rational thinking in order to get to the truth and the truth will be the right thing to do.

Perhaps you need to fully think this through to it's conclusion in terms of what impacts your decision to leave your husband and go with this man you met twice will have. I mean practically. So look at this, this is something to think about in a 21 incisive way.



So if you make the decision to leave your husband who you say is caring, loving and who shares your interests for this man I'll call MrX you met twice well it follows you'd need to consider

1. Where will you live ? If you leave your husband are you going to go and live in Mr Xs mother's house ?

2. How will you manage with the loss of your caring loving husband? Might you miss him while living in Mr X's bedroom in his mother's house? I mean if you go with Mr X you will have to leave your home as you can't expect your husband to leave his own house so Mr X can move in.

3. You don't know Mr X and so it's a mighty big sacrifice to give up your home and your caring husband to go to him or to find another home where you can see him. All you know is you have feelings. Well feelings aren't everything and they don't always lead to real fulfilment, this is where the teeth of 21 come in handy to save you from disaster. But if you put these feelings you attribute to Mr X above your home and marriage, well it's your choice but as outsider it looks like one completely crazy plan to me. In fact I'm not sure you've got a plan but you will need to have one if you are leaving your home and marriage. So I'm not saying this for the sake of it but trying to show what using 21 might be for you here in making a decision.

4. You can't go on lying as your husband has the right to withdraw from you if you are cheating on him. He needs to know so he can make his own plans otherwise it's really not fair on him. Thinking about what is fair is central to 21, it ties in to doing what is right and the processes of law. Which matters more being fair to him or your feelings? Yi says with 21uc put aside the feelings that can come and go like clouds in the wind, cut through complication and messiness and get very clear about what is fair to your husband here.

BTW I have had experiences with 16.4 which definitely had a dark side. I will copy my wiki entry. Here it is



How do you know Mr X isn't a charming sociopath? How do you know he isn't just a charmer, how do you know he doesn't have a number of other women that he sees ? You don't know yet are willing to lose your home and husband because you are experiencing strong emotions around Mr X. You experiencing strong emotions doesn't appear to me be enough to go on to declare your marriage null and void. You can explore the strong emotions without risking losing your husband and home surely and without being unfaithful.

So 21 is asking you to step away from the feelings for a second and think this through. Chew on it, ponder it. To me to be honest it looks like an absolute no brainer. You don't even know Mr X and you are happily married but think it's worth leaving for a man you met twice ? You can feel all the feelings but be aware they may not have a great deal to do with Mr X himself at all, they can just be your feelings, something arising in you. But you have to step aside and be sharp and clear about this and as far as I can see, and this is my own perspective I really do not see it as a viable option to give it all up for Mr X.

You said about Mr X


I think the red flag there is he starts things he doesn't finish...big plans zero commitment. Sounds very 16.4, lots of enthusiasm and pulling people into things he just doesn't carry through. What makes you think he will go through with things he promises you? 16.4 isn't always this way btw, there is more positive side when it's referring to being proactive and such but looking at that cast as a factor/ reason to go to MrX and 56.6 as a reason to leave your husband just doesn't hold. If you are now betraying your husband then stop and either tell him or leave. You do have to decide one or the other for his sake and that is the nub of 21. You're saying you have this powerful feelings you have to obey and Yi is telling you to be clear thinking and act fairly with clarity, making decisions based on truth. So whether you decide to go or stay being truthful is a priority now.

If you don't think 21 is about that then I don't know what you do think it's about? You have been answered very directly


How to make a decision? Make a decision based on the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

If I approach this situation rationally, it becomes evident that staying with my husband is the most sensible choice. However, the emotional connection I share with Mr. X has deeply impacted my relationship with my husband. Regrettably, I don't feel the desire for intimacy with my husband, and I find myself unintentionally blaming him for hindering me from pursuing my affair (I'm aware of how selfish this may sound, and I'm struggling with these conflicting emotions). Realistically, the prospects with Mr. X seem quite bleak given our current circumstances. Nevertheless, I can't help but fantasize about a simple and happy life with him in his small town, if only he would also find a job.

He claims that I am his driving force, and being with me would motivate him to seek employment. However, I can't help but feel that he should have already taken steps to show his capability. Although we've known each other for over a year, his efforts haven't yielded any significant progress. Furthermore, I don't want to be responsible for someone else's motivation; I prefer being with people who are self-motivated.

Your mention of him possibly being a sociopath is something I've considered as well. So far, he seems honest, but I've noticed certain red flags that make me cautious. The fear of being manipulated and enduring the torment I've faced in the past terrifies me. Identifying a sociopath can be challenging, especially when emotions are involved.

Regardless, this is my truth – a mixture of what I know, what I don't know, my instincts, and my desires – all conflicting and powerful in their own ways. Now, I feel the need to face my husband and be honest about the situation. He's growing tired of the lies, especially regarding the virtual relationship I have with Mr. X. He's urging me to tell the truth and, if necessary, leave him if I no longer love him. Though the fear paralyzes me, I understand that I must find the courage to have this conversation.

 

[misswasabi]

In this situation, do you have a clear view of the answers you received or is it colored by your preference for this other man?
It occurs to me that you have the interpretation in favor of the other man, even though the text says otherwise.
56.6 is in my opinion a clear indication not to do something, namely not to burn the nest: home and security.
You explain 556.6 yourself as "there is a possibility that it could eventually turn into a sad situation, possibly leading to a separation or splitting up, from my interpretation.", but the text clearly says "But later he weeps and wails. He loses a cow in the field. Misfortune."
You tone down this second part considerably, which of course is totally fine, but the question is why?

H16.4 seems positive, but is it really? Or is the answer more convenient for you?
H16 is about enthusiasm, but when we are enthusiastic about something we also often get carried away, trying to convince ourselves and others of something and always looking for arguments that confirm our point. We don't want to hear the cons and counter arguments.
I think 16.4 shows that. The change to H2 shows the importance of being open en receptive to other voices.

So the question is whether it is wise to let such an important decision depend on the oracle's answer when you are not sure you understand the answer?

I appreciate your thoughtful analysis and concerns regarding the interpretation of the answers I received. You make valid points about the potential bias and preference I may have for the other man, and how it could affect my understanding of the responses from the oracle.
My feelings for the other man could indeed be influencing my interpretation of the oracle's responses, even if I try to be objective.
Regarding hexagram 56.6, you rightly pointed out that the text clearly warns against potential misfortune and losing security. It's possible that I may have unconsciously downplayed this aspect because I'm more focused on the possibility of a new, happier life with the other man.
As for hexagram H16.4, you bring up a valid perspective on how enthusiasm can lead to selective hearing and an inclination to find arguments that support our desires. I must acknowledge that my eagerness for a positive outcome might be influencing how I perceive the answer.
Your final question is crucial: Is it wise to base such an important decision solely on the oracle's answer when I'm unsure of its true meaning? You raise a valid concern. While seeking guidance from the oracle can be insightful, it should not be the sole basis for making life-altering decisions. That's why I seeked professional advice to gain clarity before making any life-changing choices. But since nothing triggers a reaction in me, I thought the I Ching would inspire me.

 

[Trojina]

However, the emotional connection I share with Mr. X has deeply impacted my relationship with my husband. Regrettably, I don't feel the desire for intimacy with my husband, and I find myself unintentionally blaming him for hindering me from pursuing my affair

If you told your husband the truth he wouldn't be hindering you would he. He'd let you go so he could get on with his own life and find someone who loves him. I hope he does.

 

[misswasabi]

Sounds like the online guy situation is a trauma bond connection.

Hex 21un - Biting through.
Your situation isn't about choosing one man over the other, it's about cracking open what's really going on for you as a person that's caused you to put yourself in this situation.

56.6>62 - stop being careless with your marriage or you could lose it with great loss.

That resonates deeply with me... Actually, my therapist has pointed out something similar that I am exploring with him. Growing up in a family with a history of addiction, I am conscious of my addictive personality and always try to make a conscious effort to keep it under control, determined not to follow the same path.
However, I can't help but see a resemblance between my mother and me, especially when it comes to the choices we've made. My mother faced the decision between her family and the bottle, and unfortunately, she chose the latter. I can't say she didn't love or cared for us, but there was something stronger than that pushing her to make the wrong choices, an emptiness that we couldn't fill.
Additionally, I find myself taking on the role of caring for vulnerable individuals, and I can't ignore the possible link between this tendency and my family's background. It's likely that past experiences and family dynamics have shaped my actions and that way I make (or not make) decisions, and it sucks.

So yes, probably my relationship with this guy is rooted in a trauma bond.

I see more and more hexagram 21 like a fitting representation of my journey. I see it as an invitation to face the underlying issues that drive my decisions and unravel the complexities within myself. The problem is that might take too long and my husband might get sick of waiting for me to make up my mind and be clear to him.

 

[misswasabi]

Misswasabi,

I feel your emotional turmoil and it's a noble act of yours to try to make the right decision despite all difficulties.

To me hexagram 21 sounds like some difficult journey you can't avoid as that's the only way the problem can be solved.

I'd say, if you leave him like that, you'll regret it very badly later.

I am not sure about this one. 16.4 can show your attraction and connection. The result hexagram is 2, so I doubt there will be any substantial thing beyond some emotional encounters.

21 also talks about legal proceedings... can you see a marriage counselor with your husband? Or take some time apart in order to sort your emotions out?

Marybluesky,

Thank you for your response and for showing empathy in understanding the complexities of my situation. I was thinking about your perspective on Hexagram 21, pointing to a difficult journey I can't avoid, and thinking whether that could refer to "leave my husband and regret it later" Sounds stupid, but sometimes we have to actually make mistakes in order to learn and grow. Because bitting, or telling the truth would mean admitting the strong feelings I have for someone else and acknowledging the lack of intimacy with my husband. It's a harsh reality, but it's a truth that I can't ignore.
The situation with the other guy is not clear either, I also lie to him or give him false hope of a future together that I'm not sure will come true. He might be a mess, but he seems like a good person, and I'm also toying with his emotions, and being deceitful to him by making promises I'm unsure I can keep, although I genuinely love him. What I mean to say is that losing him wouldn't be an easy path either.

What I find hard to understand is the part about "legal proceedings." I'm not really sure what it could be referring to.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help.

 

[Trojina]

What I find hard to understand is the part about "legal proceedings." I'm not really sure what it could be referring to.

Really ? Isn't it very clear? At least I thought I had explained it clearly. Perhaps we need the actual words of Yi here

Oracle

'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'

Image
'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'

Your question was this

I've turned to the I Ching for guidance, and I asked how I could make a decision about it and got Hexagram 21 unchanging,

So Yi answered that as clearly as it possibly can. I've explained what 'legal processes' are here - same as in law, deciding the truth, what is right and wrong. I went into that at length. I went into detail about making the decision according to legal process and one thing that most certainly is not is foundering in emotion and self analysis. In court the jury doesn't decide a verdict on emotions but on the law and that is what you being advised is a good basis for decision.

You are attached to seeing this as complicated and all about your inner workings and what you want but the fact is you are lying to two people but the most important person you are lying to is your husband. Why are you letting that go go on? Because you don't know which option you like the best ? That's what it comes down to.

Also although the question a good clear one 'how to make a decision' I'm not sure what that decision involves? Is it a decision between leaving your husband very soon and going to Mr X's mum's or staying with your husband and dropping Mr X ? I guess so, I guess that's what your decision is between. I'm highly doubtful that you are going to leave your husband, I just can't see it given I think you'd risk too much not least the fact you may lose him for good so it looks like you want to stay in both worlds, you want to stay with your husband whilst having the relationship with Mr X. But you can't do that as it's dishonest and having lots of feelings doesn't reduce that fact it only obscures or justifies it. That's 21 and 'legal processes' right there. You're trying to do the opposite by thinking about it all only in terms of your own emotions, but that is not the advice of 21 at all.

You didn't say what the decision was specifically, only in terms of your feelings, decisions in terms of your feelings. But what about the actual decisions of leaving ? I asked where you were going to live for example? I'm trying to ascertain how this decision is going to be enacted as right now I find it hard to envisage you packing your bags next week and leaving. So practically how is this decision going to manifest? There's no mystery as to what 21 is saying here, you need to be truthful and clear. If you see it as other than that, if you see it as needing more time, I think you're avoiding the reply.

I can't see you have any practical intentions of leaving your husband so I think the idea this is about an actual decision on your part isn't really the case. Again 21, you aren't even telling the truth to yourself so try to do that. You're aren't going to be packing your bags any time soon are you so what role does MrX really have for you?

 

[marybluesky]

I'm not sure about legal proceedings either. So let that be. Maybe you don't have to admit all in a rush, rather talk with your husband about not feeling intimate, and look for marriage therapy?? That's what comes to my mind.

 

[Trojina]

I've also sought help from mental health professionals who suggested that I might have a mild Dissociative Identity Disorder or that I'm struggling with my decision-making abilities. Regardless of the reason, I know I need to put an end to this.

Just so as not to skip over this if you did have Dissociative Identity Disorder I can't think it would be good for you to place your entire life in the hands of MrX who you don't know well at all.

 

[misswasabi]

I'll know not to respond in the future. Sounds like you know your truth but it doesn't matter what anyone says you're going to do what you want anyway.

No, not at all. I express what I feel and how I feel it to be better understood, but I wouldn't come to this forum to share my problems if I didn't think it would influence me in any way. I've been reading this forum for years, sometimes without participating, because it's full of people with very good judgment, not only interpreting the I Ching. There are wise people here from whom I've learned a lot and who, perhaps unknowingly, have helped me greatly in complicated situations in my life. If I've raised this issue here, it's to take into account the voices that have kindly decided to give their opinion. Don't really understand why you said that.

 

[misswasabi]

Really ? Isn't it very clear? At least I thought I had explained it clearly. Perhaps we need the actual words of Yi here

Oracle

'Biting through, creating success.
Harvest in making use of legal proceedings.'

Image
'Thunder and lightning. Biting through.
The ancient kings brought light to punishments and enforced the laws.'

Your question was this


So Yi answered that as clearly as it possibly can. I've explained what 'legal processes' are here - same as in law, deciding the truth, what is right and wrong. I went into that at length. I went into detail about making the decision according to legal process and one thing that most certainly is not is foundering in emotion and self analysis. In court the jury doesn't decide a verdict on emotions but on the law and that is what you being advised is a good basis for decision.

You are attached to seeing this as complicated and all about your inner workings and what you want but the fact is you are lying to two people but the most important person you are lying to is your husband. Why are you letting that go go on? Because you don't know which option you like the best ? That's what it comes down to.

Also although the question a good clear one 'how to make a decision' I'm not sure what that decision involves? Is it a decision between leaving your husband very soon and going to Mr X's mum's or staying with your husband and dropping Mr X ? I guess so, I guess that's what your decision is between. I'm highly doubtful that you are going to leave your husband, I just can't see it given I think you'd risk too much not least the fact you may lose him for good so it looks like you want to stay in both worlds, you want to stay with your husband whilst having the relationship with Mr X. But you can't do that as it's dishonest and having lots of feelings doesn't reduce that fact it only obscures or justifies it. That's 21 and 'legal processes' right there. You're trying to do the opposite by thinking about it all only in terms of your own emotions, but that is not the advice of 21 at all.

You didn't say what the decision was specifically, only in terms of your feelings, decisions in terms of your feelings. But what about the actual decisions of leaving ? I asked where you were going to live for example? I'm trying to ascertain how this decision is going to be enacted as right now I find it hard to envisage you packing your bags next week and leaving. So practically how is this decision going to manifest? There's no mystery as to what 21 is saying here, you need to be truthful and clear. If you see it as other than that, if you see it as needing more time, I think you're avoiding the reply.

I can't see you have any practical intentions of leaving your husband so I think the idea this is about an actual decision on your part isn't really the case. Again 21, you aren't even telling the truth to yourself so try to do that. You're aren't going to be packing your bags any time soon are you so what role does MrX really have for you?

Thank you again, Trojina, for your incredible analytical skills. When I asked how to make my decision, I was inquiring about the aspects I should consider and those I should not. I hoped for a different perspective or some form of inspiration. Once you've carefully weighed all the pros and cons and still find yourself unsure of what to do, more information won't necessarily help you decide. I also don't see my decision as merely choosing between two men, as if I were picking between two seats. I am seriously contemplating other options, such as being alone and dedicating time to rebuilding myself, stopping the harm caused to others by my own problems, since it may be the fair thing to do. It's something I've ruled out because of the practical aspects ofsplitting up my husband would have to endure. If we splitted up, his situation, practically speaking, would be worse than mine. I earn more money, and the apartment we live in is one that I rented and he wouldn't be able to afford even if I handed it over to him. In reality, I am protecting him more than myself, on that regard, as I am also aware of his economic vulnerability. But yeah, now I fully grasp the concept of 'legal proceedingsas you explained it. Thank you so much; you gave lots of food for thought.

 

[angelatlantis14]

Hello Misswasabi,

I cannot really give you relationship advice, not knowing you, your husband or the other guy in any way...

just a few notes on your readings:
Like others said before, I do not see 21 UC as a call for waiting - if anything, the opposite, "Biting Through" would rather point to the need to the need to resolve this situation, to apply energy and effort to find a resolution. The fact that it is unchanging underlines this to me, it says IMO "this is all the answer you need, focus on it."

So you feel that you are unable to make this decision, but the fact that you have received 21 as answer could be saying that the Yi tells you "You CAN make this decision".

So maybe you need just more trust in yourself and your intuition and intellect? Deep down, you probably know what is the right decision for you, so you may just need to go and find it for yourself.

You asked then:
What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.

In general terms (as others have commented already) it seems to me a warning to not burn your bridges prematurely, you are currently a wanderer between different worlds, which includes insecurity and vulnerability. It is better to err on the side of caution and rectitude than on the opposite. The image of 62 is saying:

"Thus in his conduct the superior man gives preponderance to reverence.
In bereavement he gives preponderance to grief.
In his expenditures he gives preponderance to thrift."


What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.

You interpret this a being positive for the relationship but I think it talks about something else: Actually, I think both the Hex text and the moving line are recommending you to find a support system, friends or family, people you can help you in this situation, which might turn out one way or another.

So maybe you need to focus more on your own emotional security than on this either/or decision. The conflict between different men may well be only an expression of a deeper confusion that might need to be addressed, and for that you may need supporters.

Hope to help you!

 

[Liselle]

16.4 can be about money, according to some translations.


Hilary in WikiWing mentions great possessions:
'Source of enthusiasm.
Great possessions gained.
Do not doubt.
Friends are gathered together as a hair clasp gathers hair.'

Freeman Crouch translates the same phrase as "cowries," which were shells used as money. (Hilary's review of Crouch's book.)

'Drawn out enthusiasm.
There will be a big haul.
Have no doubt.

Cowries?
Why not?
Put them on your clip.' *

* The figure here is of the cowries being tacked down like hair in a hair clip. Compare to 23.5, that compares cultivating the Shang courtiers to putting fish on a string.

Crouch tells a little story with lines 3 and 4. Here it is. (Note that you didn't cast line 3 and you shouldn't pay attention to it. But Crouch's commentary doesn't make sense without it - otherwise we don't know what "But war cannot..." refers to.

➂The object of our ambitions is visible. It is time to compose ourselves for battle.
➃But war cannot be entered into with cold blood. Enthusiasm will be needed, and needed for a protracted time. Wealth may be taken, but note that cowries is also the word used for friends. Nothing makes friends like winning; this is also an opportunity to further build our alliance.

➌ Staring enthusiasm.
Trouble walking slowly.
There will be trouble.
➍Drawn out enthusiasm.
There will be a big haul.
Have no doubt.
Cowries?
Why not?
Put them on your clip.

Wikipedia about cowries used as money:

Shells of certain species have historically been used as currency in several parts of the world [...] The cowrie was the shell most widely used worldwide as shell money [...] Starting over three thousand years ago, cowrie shells, or copies of the shells, were used as Chinese currency [...] The Classical Chinese character for money (貝) originated as a stylized drawing of a Maldivian cowrie shell.[8] Words and characters concerning money, property or wealth usually have this as a radical. Before the Spring and Autumn period the cowrie was used as a type of trade token awarding access to a feudal lord's resources to a worthy vassal.

 

[misswasabi]

Hello Misswasabi,

I cannot really give you relationship advice, not knowing you, your husband or the other guy in any way...

just a few notes on your readings:
Like others said before, I do not see 21 UC as a call for waiting - if anything, the opposite, "Biting Through" would rather point to the need to the need to resolve this situation, to apply energy and effort to find a resolution. The fact that it is unchanging underlines this to me, it says IMO "this is all the answer you need, focus on it."

So you feel that you are unable to make this decision, but the fact that you have received 21 as answer could be saying that the Yi tells you "You CAN make this decision".

So maybe you need just more trust in yourself and your intuition and intellect? Deep down, you probably know what is the right decision for you, so you may just need to go and find it for yourself.

You asked then:
What should I do about my relationship with my husband? I got Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62.

In general terms (as others have commented already) it seems to me a warning to not burn your bridges prematurely, you are currently a wanderer between different worlds, which includes insecurity and vulnerability. It is better to err on the side of caution and rectitude than on the opposite. The image of 62 is saying:

"Thus in his conduct the superior man gives preponderance to reverence.
In bereavement he gives preponderance to grief.
In his expenditures he gives preponderance to thrift."


What should I do about my relationship with the other guy? I got Hexagram 16.4 changing to Hexagram 2.

You interpret this a being positive for the relationship but I think it talks about something else: Actually, I think both the Hex text and the moving line are recommending you to find a support system, friends or family, people you can help you in this situation, which might turn out one way or another.

So maybe you need to focus more on your own emotional security than on this either/or decision. The conflict between different men may well be only an expression of a deeper confusion that might need to be addressed, and for that you may need supporters.

Hope to help you!

Hello,
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. The idea that the unchanging nature of the hexagram 21 signifies that the answer lies within myself and that I have the capacity to make this decision is kind of empowering.
Regarding my reading about my relationship with my husband (Hexagram 56.6 changing to Hexagram 62), your suggestion to not burn bridges prematurely and to err on the side of caution and rectitude makes a lot of sense, of course.
Hexagram 16 is always a tricky one for me, as enthusiasm can be both positive and risky, since it can be a driving force that consumes our focus, making us oblivious to other aspects of life. Considering that my question was "what I should do", I took it as a signal to embrace this enthusiasm and wholeheartedly explore my emotions towards the other guy. Nevertheless, he description of Line 2, "becoming one with the Enthusiasm, losing our individuality, being possessed by the god" sounds a bit daunting and seems to serve as a warning against getting lost in my own feelings and fantasies. I think that getting completely consumed by emotions is definitely not "what I should do."
Perhaps is encouraging me, as you said, to seek a support system, such as friends or family, to share my concerns and gain insights, seeing things from different angles that I can be missing, approaching my emotions with awareness and not let these emotions overpower me.
Thank you again for your guidance and willingness to help me gain clarity in this situation.

 

[Liselle]

Nevertheless, he description of Line 2, "becoming one with the Enthusiasm, losing our individuality, being possessed by the god"

Is it line 2 or line 4? Also who are you quoting there?

 

[misswasabi]

Is it line 2 or line 4? Also who are you quoting there?

Hello Liselle,

It's line 4, my apologies for any confusion. To be honest, I am not sure whom I am quoting. In my notebook, I collect whatever resonates with me during my readings, whether from books, forums, or websites, which I believe will aid me in the future. Perhaps it's not the most organized system, but I find the translations of certain books to be quite cryptic. Therefore, I attempt to build a personal system that can help me comprehend the meaning.

You mentioned that 16.4 could be related to money, based on some translations. However, I am struggling to understand how this interpretation applies to my current reading.

'There will be a big haul.

Have no doubt.

Cowries?

Why not?

Put them on your clip.'

If I take this text at face value, it appears to be a motivational or encouraging statement, right? I read it as:

"There is a bountiful reward awaiting you. There’s no room for doubt. Just like collecting cowries, seize opportunities fearlessly and keep them securely on your (metaphorical) clip of knowledge."

Maybe that highlights the idea of anticipating a significant reward or outcome and encourages to embrace opportunities without hesitation, just as one collects valuable items to keep on your "clip" for future use.

Or maybe it doesn't mean anything like this at all.

 

[Liselle]

Does Mr. X know you have a good job?

 

[Trojina]

I had wondered where on earth you were headed with cowries and Freeman Crouch, I hadn't thought of that!