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Nice summary. This may well be why I have been unable to identify the shadow clearly in the text of Yi and the wings, The shadow is always present yet not always visible.Long story short: I don't think, in most cases, the shadow element is displayed in the hexagram, I think it's the unspoken underpinning of the hexagram. The Yi connects you with the archetypes and takes into account the shadow, but doesn't speak of it directly.
Trees, stones, animals all carry an implicit wisdom which allows for them to move more freely with the cycle of the year, thus avoiding excessive intervention by shadow aspects of the world. Humans by their nature, and the ease by which there core self is open to reconditioning, are less well protected.I think this was made by observation of how Change works. In nature and stuff, trees doesn't seem to have psychic aspects, yet that same changes will affect them as well.
Suppression is indeed a conscious act that removes potential threats knowingly from our world. However very unpleasant acts or words directed towards us and our very being can be repressed which is an unconscious act e.g. amnesia of the event after a terrible accident.Then we can say - but when we ask something related to consciousness then if we have aspects in us we don't understand or suppress, that should be shown by the hexagram. And sure, I assume it will. As suppression or as other processes that exist in nature. But the 'shadow' aspect in any other reading, would be the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive. As the other 'Change' it reflect is there with or without psychic aspects to it.
Certainly a journey into the shadow requires stepping into the dark recesses, the content of which is that which we protect ourselves from. The ultimate dark place of shadow is, of course, the underworld of myth and legend : the place of our greatest fear - death and annihilation. A part of our shadow must die for change to truly manifest. Then the energy that was trapped in the shadow becomes readily available to reinforce the change or for other activity.In that sense, the shadow equivalent in nature can be caves, or underground stuff, or very cloudy weather I think. But they won't be coming from isolated point of view, as some of the ideas of Qi Gong and other similar disciplines is to remove the physical reasons for that suppression. So a practitioner there may not have that same 'shadow' western people tend to create and empower, not in the same ways at least.As they make changes to their physical body and their flows, so what we perceive as suppression, may just be block in a meridian or the flow. Remove it with exercise and it dissolves in the mind, as well.
Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = ShadowHi Tihia
Trees, stones, animals all carry an implicit wisdom which allows for them to move more freely with the cycle of the year, thus avoiding excessive intervention by shadow aspects of the world. Humans by their nature, and the ease by which there core self is open to reconditioning, are less well protected.
Trees have a wonderful means of communication. Vast underground swathes of connecting root and fungi that carry chemical messages of attack, drought, seasonal change etc from one individual to another. I would perhaps see this as a psychic connection - one based in soul and mind.
Suppression is indeed a conscious act that removes potential threats knowingly from our world. However very unpleasant acts or words directed towards us and our very being can be repressed which is an unconscious act e.g. amnesia of the event after a terrible accident.
Both suppressed and repressed elements will take up residence in the shadow. So I agree that in any reading "the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive" may well be hiding away in our shadow still. The Change we are able to embrace from the advice of any reading will only be that part that has come into our consciousness. Line 1, I think, relates a lot to the nature of the journey from unconscious to conscious; with added pointers of what the nature of the content might well be.
Certainly a journey into the shadow requires stepping into the dark recesses, the content of which is that which we protect ourselves from. The ultimate dark place of shadow is, of course, the underworld of myth and legend : the place of our greatest fear - death and annihilation. A part of our shadow must die for change to truly manifest. Then the energy that was trapped in the shadow becomes readily available to reinforce the change or for other activity.
Qi Gong, I agree, looks to redress balance through promoting the free flow of energy and so works to remove unhealthy shadow elements that have become embodied. Cultural attitudes and beliefs obviously vary from west to east however I not sure that the shadow is any real respect for cultural difference. It's purpose is to hide threats and maintain protection through repeating thoughts and behaviours what were once the only courses of action available. When they have exceeded their sell by date the option of change becomes available, but as you say may need a bit of a push and a shove through the encouragement of new mind / body connection and activity.
Interesting comment for further exploration.Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = Shadow
Gen, Zhen, Xun, Li = Self
Yea, the thing is... He observed something. They took the stuff they couldn't handle and they put in in something. And they set a guardian there, although I don't know if he noticed that part.Interesting comment for further exploration.
I am wondering where have you gained your insights into these relationships. Are you able to share further information?
From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn. This traditional wisdom flies at odds with your groupings of the trigrams that you have gained through energy wave theory.Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = Shadow
Gen, Zhen, Xun, Li = Self
That seems to be a very shadow laden reply. I have seen some off-beat threads over the years on Clarity but have no real evidence of admin deleting threads out of hand, especially those that are started with a good intent. Maybe a more enlightened take from you would be to start the thread and see what happens.Its all good. Seemed good idea to give it a try. But moderators can delete it when online and it will be back to the default topic.
For me - I will be careful with the topics here moving on. : )
The assignment of seasons is slightly different:From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn.
My aim is nothing more than exploring a topic that I find interesting. I like putting effort into topics that interest me. I've obviously missed in your words what you have seen as the next steps that Wilhelm provides insight into.my_key:
You are putting so much effort in this... And even now after all this I still don't understand what you are trying to do.
For my part I'm trying to provide them the next steps using only the stuff explained in Wilhelm now. As that is what I assume is needed.
If you think the next steps will unbalance the community then maybe it wasn't that stable to begin with?
And if not that, then what?
Thanks Hans.The assignment of seasons is slightly different:
Thunder (Zhen)+ Wind (Xun)= Spring
Fire (Li) + Earth (Kun) = Summer
Lake (Dui) + Heaven (Qian) = Autumn
Water (Kan) + Mountain(Gen) = Winter.
View attachment 5676
I don't know if it's wrong, but I haven't come across the assignment of seasons as you depict them before.Are these totally wrong or are there different ways to view the Trigram connective energies based on different I Ching methodologies?
When you see Shadow as yin and Self as yang, I believ the assignment can be explained as follows:I appreciate there can be mythical connections of autumn / winter to shadow and spring /summer to self as Tihia Viatar alluded. Do these come from any of the I Ching methodologies you use?
Thunder (Zhen) = yang/Self | Fire (Li) = yang/Self |
Wind(Xun) = yin/Shadow | Earth (Kun) = yin/Shadow |
My curiosity now moves me to thinking about how a hexagram comprising two 'shadow' trigrams plays out. So there is shadow influencing inner and outer world in an archetypal manner. Conversely, when two self / consciousness trigrams go towards making up a hexagram how does that every pattern play out.
Interesting line of thought, but in a hexagram, the trigrams have a different polarity than in the assignments to the seasons. Here, the assignments of yin and yang as follows:My curiosity now moves me to thinking about how a hexagram comprising two 'shadow' trigrams plays out. So there is shadow influencing inner and outer world in an archetypal manner. Conversely, when two self / consciousness trigrams go towards making up a hexagram how does that every pattern play out.
Thanks Hans. To be sure, that's saved me from setting off down a long and winding road in search of an invisible pot of gold.Interesting line of thought, but in a hexagram, the trigrams have a different polarity than in the assignments to the seasons. Here, the assignments of yin and yang as follows:
Thunder, Heaven, Water, and Mountain are yang trigrams
Wind, Fire, Lake, Earth are yin trigrams.
So the assignment yin and yang depends on the context.
Although Heaven in itself is a yang trigram, in the context of the seasons it is in a yin/Shadow position.
From going through a phase in a cycle, this can be explained and understood.
Perhaps with the seasons, it is better to speak of a shadow/ Self position rather than the trigram itself being the Self or Shadow.
A few that come to mind:
The most obvious is H1: the Leader/Father(figure). Agree Creator / Inspiring Force
H2: The Mother(figure) Yes. The Caregiver also another term from the Mother
H10: The Diplomat (dealing with risky and precarious situations and finding a middle ground ) not clear to me
H16: The Shaman (see the text of the Image) aka The Magician improvising through grounded quake and thunder. Sounds promising. Magicians goal is to make dreams come true, now that is typical shaman.
H56: The Researcher/Investigator 56 might be The Explorer who seeks freedom to discover who he is. On the way to authenticity he burns his resting place
There seem to be a whole heap of names for top level Jung archetypes, with many different archetypes having holding several sub categories which can easily become confusing. It would be nice to have a list someone has already prepared as being definitive. On second thoughts, that would take a good part of the fun of dialogue and diversity out of the exchanges on this thread.H3: The Explorer (a bit like the Fool in Tarot) The Fool is more like the Jester who is intent on living for now not mindful of consequences. Explorer more 56-like, perhaps. 3 counters it's natural tendencies by making plans. Although the Fool is the confidant and close associate of King and Queen, so 3 might be a natural place for him to sit. Not sure.
H4: The Child Yes, The Innocent might be another name to use. Highly ego centred and just keeps asking the wrong questions. Why?, why? why? and Are we nearly there yet?
H49: The Rebel Could well be. He likes to turn over what is not working. I also have 24 as a possible Rebel.
H51: The Initiator Yes this fits well. I did wonder about this one being The Hero proving worth through brave deeds. Are Hero and Initiator different names for the same archetype?
H52: The Monk I'm not familiar with this name. Keeping Still does carry monk like qualities. I was thinking of this one perhaps more of The Sage, who has contemplative and self-reflective qualities. Again are Monk and Sage on the same archetypal wavelength? Not Sure.
That's fine, everyone can associate their own archetype with this.That's added a fun element to the thread, I fancy. Not sure I see it all quite like you, though.
Yes, I certainly don't see anything I've written as being definitive, but maybe a consensus of two counts towards something in some of the cases. Who knows? Perhaps others will join in the fun. of not knowing, too. Jung is only one way to skin the cat.That's fine, everyone can associate their own archetype with this.
By the way, I did not specifically look for Jungian archetypes.
No, no, I view Shadow is Earth/Water. Can get any information, but with that on its surface is the info one doesn't dare to face, sometimes. So have to clash to open and receive or to use other ways.So, to summarise, you see the autumn / winter movement as Shadow and the Spring /Summer movement as Self.
Well... Want to expand on the traditional info somewhat? : )From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn. This traditional wisdom flies at odds with your groupings of the trigrams that you have gained through energy wave theory.
I hardly think you need my permission to expand on anything you would like to contribute to the Exploring Divination Forum.Well... Want to expand on the traditional info somewhat? : )
I get that is early heaven arrangment, while still use the 4 Images to go through the seasons/elements, but what is the logic behind using that for this?
There is another way of looking at the pre-heaven and post-heaven.I'm certain there are many insights into archetypal and shadow energies when pre-heaven concepts are added to the equation, especially when the influence of pre-heaven onto post heaven experience is taken into consideration.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).