Archetypal Qualities of Hexagrams

[my_key]

Hexagrams can be readily viewed as archetypes which, according to Carl Jung, can be seen as energies residing in the collective unconscious. They are essential catalysts for aspects of self realisation that form part of the natural human individuation process. Archetypes can be present, or indeed absent, in everyone however when their energies are embraced it can bring about thoughts or actions that are normally considered to be out of character.

While it is perhaps not correct to name them as positive or negative qualities, after all they are just energy, there is a two-sided aspect, which can be best viewed as a continuum, to the qualities displayed by each archetype. As examples, using some of Jung's archetypes we can see the flipsides in 'Caregiver' as nurturing vs victim /slave; in 'Everyman' as positive relationship former vs orphan, dependant, people pleasing; in 'Child' connecting to innate wisdom vs lacking responsibility and ignoring reality and in 'Explorer' (Seeker) focusing on learning, travel and self discovery vs remaining repressed by adults and overly accepting of social norms.

Jung sees each archetype as containing an aspect of the shadow. The shadow is composed of of all things repressed including ideas, weaknesses, desires, instincts, and shortcomings. Additionally, the shadow is a sneaky varmint and will seek to express itself where ever it sees an opportunity.

I have been pondering over this with respect to the hexagrams.
I can see line 1 as the origin of perhaps even the journey from unconscious to conscious of the archetypal energy.
The continuum is clearer in some hexagrams than others. In hex 1 this seems very clear - submerged dragon to arrogant dragon.
While in other hexagrams line 6 seems to jump between caution of displaying excess of the quality through to how best to get the wisdom from the situation being divined. It is also noticeable that there are a profusion of cautionary or warning lines scattered through the I Ching that allude to the consequences of allowing a shadow aspect to take up residence. I am thinking of perhaps the small people, non people or just the small in general.
In the hexagrams how then is the shadow element displayed? The image seems to define for the junzi ('the realising person') what is the 'positive' quality to display or follow as best they can. However, there is little that is absolutely explicit about the shadow aspect / quality that relates to that hexagram.

It's highly likely I have missed something that is staring me in the face, so I'm wondering what thoughts others may have on this aspect of I Ching and it's impact on the interpretation employed during their divination processes.

 

[dobro p]

I don't think the Yi addresses the shadow factor, simply for the fact that the concept of the shadow didn't exist in China when it was created. There's Hex 18, of course, which is pure shadow, but most hexagrams don't deal with depth psychology so much as with situations which consciousness has to deal with. I don't know if you'll like my answer, but I think that where the shadow comes into the Yi - in fact, where the entire unconscious, including the collective unconscious and the archetypes comes into the Yi - is the Yi itself and its function when we consult it. Let's say, for instance, that in the situation I'm consulting the Yi about ("What do I need to know about trying to get this document published as a book'"), the Yi knows what my archetypal underpinning is in this case and which hexagram will best help me deal with it. I'll go further, in fact. I think the Yi's response is the voice of the pertinent archetype, couched in the language of the hexagrams, which consciousness can understand if it learns the language of symbol.

Another question here though is whether each hexagram expresses or connects with a different archetype. It could be that the Yi has a handful of hexagrams that connect with a given archetype, and that each of those hexagrams expresses a different aspect of that archetype. Nobody knows how many archetypes there are, but Jung himself identified only a handful. For my own purposes of psychological balance and wholeness, I work with six or seven only (but then I always have a tendency to simplify).

Long story short: I don't think, in most cases, the shadow element is displayed in the hexagram, I think it's the unspoken underpinning of the hexagram. The Yi connects you with the archetypes and takes into account the shadow, but doesn't speak of it directly.

 

[my_key]

Hi dobro
There is nothing not to like about your answer, after all we are exploring in this forum and exploring equates to opportunities to discover new lands.

I had not appreciated that ancient China did not carry a perspective of the shadow, I had taken the view that as much of their philosophy is based in yin and yang, elements of light and dark would exist for them.

Depth psychology, and all it alludes to, is something that is ever present. It carries a strong flavour of the individual soul-making qualities that stem from and percolate into all situations. I agree that these can reside in the background of the unconscious or collective unconscious and only as the dark depths lessen and awareness grows do the things from the depths manifest in the conscious. Here indeed is the place of the real work that divination with Yi directs us towards, especially as we walk in the landscape of the Noble One. The more we walk these pathways following in the footsteps of the Noble One the more the tenacious grip the shadow has on our inner and outer world is loosened.

So, perhaps, the shadow is implicit in the overall countenance of the book and the hexagram that has been divined is the most appropriate archetypal energy to address the dominant shadow aspect within us in any particular set of circumstances. For each trial within there is 'automatically' given an opportunity to play a 'Get out of Jail' card to increase awareness and harvest growth and development. Although I suspect that the growth and development that comes is very rarely for free.

My perspective is that each hexagram is a different archetypal energy, however they combine and interact in ways that strengthen and reinforce the process towards potential / eventual individuation. The 'gang' required to add their strength to each leading archetype can be seen through the individual changing lines; each hexagram calling to another archetypal energy (relating /secondary hexagram) to bring in it's unique qualities, and thereby change our perspective around the shadow-in-residence bringing it more into focus and raising it up within our awareness.

You are right that it is very easy to become lost in the mazy world of archetypes and it may well be that like power animals, in shamanism, there are a key number that reside productively with us for longer periods of time and others pop into our worlds when the time demands and then return to whence they came.

Long story short: I don't think, in most cases, the shadow element is displayed in the hexagram, I think it's the unspoken underpinning of the hexagram. The Yi connects you with the archetypes and takes into account the shadow, but doesn't speak of it directly.

Nice summary. This may well be why I have been unable to identify the shadow clearly in the text of Yi and the wings, The shadow is always present yet not always visible.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

I think this was made by observation of how Change works. In nature and stuff, trees doesn't seem to have psychic aspects, yet that same changes will affect them as well.

Then we can say - but when we ask something related to consciousness then if we have aspects in us we don't understand or suppress, that should be shown by the hexagram. And sure, I assume it will. As suppression or as other processes that exist in nature. But the 'shadow' aspect in any other reading, would be the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive. As the other 'Change' it reflect is there with or without psychic aspects to it.

In that sense, the shadow equivalent in nature can be caves, or underground stuff, or very cloudy weather I think. But they won't be coming from isolated point of view, as some of the ideas of Qi Gong and other similar disciplines is to remove the physical reasons for that suppression. So a practitioner there may not have that same 'shadow' western people tend to create and empower, not in the same ways at least.As they make changes to their physical body and their flows, so what we perceive as suppression, may just be block in a meridian or the flow. Remove it with exercise and it dissolves in the mind, as well.

 

[my_key]

Hi Tihia

I think this was made by observation of how Change works. In nature and stuff, trees doesn't seem to have psychic aspects, yet that same changes will affect them as well.

Trees, stones, animals all carry an implicit wisdom which allows for them to move more freely with the cycle of the year, thus avoiding excessive intervention by shadow aspects of the world. Humans by their nature, and the ease by which there core self is open to reconditioning, are less well protected.

Trees have a wonderful means of communication. Vast underground swathes of connecting root and fungi that carry chemical messages of attack, drought, seasonal change etc from one individual to another. I would perhaps see this as a psychic connection - one based in soul and mind.

Then we can say - but when we ask something related to consciousness then if we have aspects in us we don't understand or suppress, that should be shown by the hexagram. And sure, I assume it will. As suppression or as other processes that exist in nature. But the 'shadow' aspect in any other reading, would be the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive. As the other 'Change' it reflect is there with or without psychic aspects to it.

Suppression is indeed a conscious act that removes potential threats knowingly from our world. However very unpleasant acts or words directed towards us and our very being can be repressed which is an unconscious act e.g. amnesia of the event after a terrible accident.

Both suppressed and repressed elements will take up residence in the shadow. So I agree that in any reading "the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive" may well be hiding away in our shadow still. The Change we are able to embrace from the advice of any reading will only be that part that has come into our consciousness. Line 1, I think, relates a lot to the nature of the journey from unconscious to conscious; with added pointers of what the nature of the content might well be.

In that sense, the shadow equivalent in nature can be caves, or underground stuff, or very cloudy weather I think. But they won't be coming from isolated point of view, as some of the ideas of Qi Gong and other similar disciplines is to remove the physical reasons for that suppression. So a practitioner there may not have that same 'shadow' western people tend to create and empower, not in the same ways at least.As they make changes to their physical body and their flows, so what we perceive as suppression, may just be block in a meridian or the flow. Remove it with exercise and it dissolves in the mind, as well.

Certainly a journey into the shadow requires stepping into the dark recesses, the content of which is that which we protect ourselves from. The ultimate dark place of shadow is, of course, the underworld of myth and legend : the place of our greatest fear - death and annihilation. A part of our shadow must die for change to truly manifest. Then the energy that was trapped in the shadow becomes readily available to reinforce the change or for other activity.

Qi Gong, I agree, looks to redress balance through promoting the free flow of energy and so works to remove unhealthy shadow elements that have become embodied. Cultural attitudes and beliefs obviously vary from west to east however I not sure that the shadow is any real respect for cultural difference. It's purpose is to hide threats and maintain protection through repeating thoughts and behaviours what were once the only courses of action available. When they have exceeded their sell by date the option of change becomes available, but as you say may need a bit of a push and a shove through the encouragement of new mind / body connection and activity.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

Hi Tihia

Trees, stones, animals all carry an implicit wisdom which allows for them to move more freely with the cycle of the year, thus avoiding excessive intervention by shadow aspects of the world. Humans by their nature, and the ease by which there core self is open to reconditioning, are less well protected.

Trees have a wonderful means of communication. Vast underground swathes of connecting root and fungi that carry chemical messages of attack, drought, seasonal change etc from one individual to another. I would perhaps see this as a psychic connection - one based in soul and mind.

Suppression is indeed a conscious act that removes potential threats knowingly from our world. However very unpleasant acts or words directed towards us and our very being can be repressed which is an unconscious act e.g. amnesia of the event after a terrible accident.

Both suppressed and repressed elements will take up residence in the shadow. So I agree that in any reading "the part of the reading we don't understand or part of the understanding we aren't open to receive" may well be hiding away in our shadow still. The Change we are able to embrace from the advice of any reading will only be that part that has come into our consciousness. Line 1, I think, relates a lot to the nature of the journey from unconscious to conscious; with added pointers of what the nature of the content might well be.

Certainly a journey into the shadow requires stepping into the dark recesses, the content of which is that which we protect ourselves from. The ultimate dark place of shadow is, of course, the underworld of myth and legend : the place of our greatest fear - death and annihilation. A part of our shadow must die for change to truly manifest. Then the energy that was trapped in the shadow becomes readily available to reinforce the change or for other activity.

Qi Gong, I agree, looks to redress balance through promoting the free flow of energy and so works to remove unhealthy shadow elements that have become embodied. Cultural attitudes and beliefs obviously vary from west to east however I not sure that the shadow is any real respect for cultural difference. It's purpose is to hide threats and maintain protection through repeating thoughts and behaviours what were once the only courses of action available. When they have exceeded their sell by date the option of change becomes available, but as you say may need a bit of a push and a shove through the encouragement of new mind / body connection and activity.

Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = Shadow
Gen, Zhen, Xun, Li = Self

 

[my_key]

Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = Shadow
Gen, Zhen, Xun, Li = Self

Interesting comment for further exploration.
I am wondering where have you gained your insights into these relationships. Are you able to share further information?

 

[Tihia Viatar]

Interesting comment for further exploration.
I am wondering where have you gained your insights into these relationships. Are you able to share further information?

Yea, the thing is... He observed something. They took the stuff they couldn't handle and they put in in something. And they set a guardian there, although I don't know if he noticed that part.
But there is vast difference between putting something in the trash bin in our house where we have a few things, and putting something in the trash bin on the street that is potentially connected to ... More.

In I Ching... We observe a tree. During winter in looks dead. We know its not. We know it renews itself in some way. But as we look at outside factors, we can't know what is happening within it.

So that part of the movement... Both of them coudn't really see it. In the changes because they look at outside effects. And they knew part of it, it connects to its essence etc. but can't follow the process, as no outside effect, just looks dead.
Same with sleeping or with death, actually. Nothing scary, but has to cross the doorway to see.

I remember first time I saw chart of the light spectrum as vibration. The idea here is that light carry vibration, or vibration carry light - we call it wavelength. The shorter it is, the faster something vibrates.

Back then inthe systems I enjoy we worked with something we called 'rays'. Doesn't really matter what they are, just that Ray 1 is Red. Ray 7 is violet.
Its very similar to all other systems. Red as visible, yang portion of the cycle, expansion and discovery and stuff. Clear and obvious there. 7 is something one will have a lot of trouble defining in a usable way. They can say words that define it, but either won't be accurate or won't be easy to follow.

One day in a book I saw the spectrum and here is another image of it easier to see:

https://energywavetheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/EM_Spectrum_Properties_edit.svg_-1024x607.png

This is physics, though, but same rules.
We can see that Red is actually the heaviest vibration we can see. Purple is the highest. Infra Red is below that and ultra violet above it to the Cosmic Rays.

One way we can look at it can be that the Day with the Sun and the I am focus on consciousness and Yang aspect flowing outside is actually the heaviest, denses material creation we can see.
Same for Spring and Summer.

The night with the purple blue colors is the Yin part of the cycle and while it carry danger and it permits what we supressed in the day to come out, it also carries the highest vibration because all is there.

Why all is there...
Well, in the day we see the Sun. I am presence etc. In the night if there aren't clouds we see infinite other Suns from far, far away places shinning at the same time we call Stars.
But the I am as the Moon have to be weaker, so only reflecting now.

So the Shadow... Its part of the movement. The tree doesn't carry it along the rest, this is the Autumn/Winther movement when it goes within. Its just misunderstood in most systems and ways.


'Certainly a journey into the shadow requires stepping into the dark recesses, the content of which is that which we protect ourselves from. The ultimate dark place of shadow is, of course, the underworld of myth and legend : the place of our greatest fear - death and annihilation. '

Shadow is the Yin part of the movement, as far as I know. The rest is human attempts to put rational meaning to it, as they couldn't work with it in native form, because they had to let their Self go for a time and we don't do that easily

The other systems together with the I Ching are missing this as well, by the way.They are using it perfectly, but they don't understand it. Long story there, though and we kinda covered the essence.

 

[my_key]

So, to summarise, you see the autumn / winter movement as Shadow and the Spring /Summer movement as Self.

Kun, Dui, Qian, Kan = Shadow
Gen, Zhen, Xun, Li = Self

From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn. This traditional wisdom flies at odds with your groupings of the trigrams that you have gained through energy wave theory.

The insight that you have gained is, indeed, far removed from accepted wisdom in respect to trigrams and it is most definitely worth you opening a new thread for the Physics connection and other theories that you want to expound on. especially as what you have written here seems to be pointing to things not just archetypal and not just Shadow, which is the theme of this thread.

I think you owe it to yourself to make this information available for all to visit on it's own dedicated thread.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

Its all good. Seemed good idea to give it a try. But moderators can delete it when online and it will be back to the default topic.
For me - I will be careful with the topics here moving on. : )

 

[my_key]

Its all good. Seemed good idea to give it a try. But moderators can delete it when online and it will be back to the default topic.
For me - I will be careful with the topics here moving on. : )

That seems to be a very shadow laden reply. I have seen some off-beat threads over the years on Clarity but have no real evidence of admin deleting threads out of hand, especially those that are started with a good intent. Maybe a more enlightened take from you would be to start the thread and see what happens.

I'm not against what you have said, just observing that it might be better placed elsewhere. Being open to new perspectives that challenge the status quo is what brings richness to life.

Remember, even Copernicus had to overcome a great deal of inertia before his point of view was accepted by the admin of his time. If he'd never taken the risk who knows where physics and science would have ended up.

 

[Hans_K]

From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn.

The assignment of seasons is slightly different:
Thunder (Zhen)+ Wind (Xun)= Spring
Fire (Li) + Earth (Kun) = Summer
Lake (Dui) + Heaven (Qian) = Autumn
Water (Kan) + Mountain(Gen) = Winter.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

my_key:​

You are putting so much effort in this... And even now after all this I still don't understand what you are trying to do.
For my part I'm trying to provide them the next steps using only the stuff explained in Wilhelm now. As that is what I assume is needed.

If you think the next steps will unbalance the community then maybe it wasn't that stable to begin with?
And if not that, then what?

 

[my_key]

my_key:​

You are putting so much effort in this... And even now after all this I still don't understand what you are trying to do.
For my part I'm trying to provide them the next steps using only the stuff explained in Wilhelm now. As that is what I assume is needed.

If you think the next steps will unbalance the community then maybe it wasn't that stable to begin with?
And if not that, then what?

My aim is nothing more than exploring a topic that I find interesting. I like putting effort into topics that interest me. I've obviously missed in your words what you have seen as the next steps that Wilhelm provides insight into.

I have no particular views on how those next steps will balance or unbalance the community - this concept is your concoction - especially as I do not have an insight into what you see as being the next sreps, as pictured in your world.

 

[my_key]

The assignment of seasons is slightly different:
Thunder (Zhen)+ Wind (Xun)= Spring
Fire (Li) + Earth (Kun) = Summer
Lake (Dui) + Heaven (Qian) = Autumn
Water (Kan) + Mountain(Gen) = Winter.

View attachment 5676

Thanks Hans.
Trigrams, as you know, are not my strong suit. I did have some notes that I referred to about seasonal connection and I based my feedback on. They probably came from Wikipedia or some other web site in the past. Are these totally wrong or are there different ways to view the Trigram connective energies based on different I Ching methodologies?

I appreciate there can be mythical connections of autumn / winter to shadow and spring /summer to self as Tihia Viatar alluded. Do these come from any of the I Ching methodologies you use?

 

[Hans_K]

Are these totally wrong or are there different ways to view the Trigram connective energies based on different I Ching methodologies?

I don't know if it's wrong, but I haven't come across the assignment of seasons as you depict them before.
The Chinese solar calendar is based on the system shown in the image in my previous post and also within the work with the I Ching and the 5 elements, the trigrams are assigned to the seasons in this way.

I appreciate there can be mythical connections of autumn / winter to shadow and spring /summer to self as Tihia Viatar alluded. Do these come from any of the I Ching methodologies you use?

When you see Shadow as yin and Self as yang, I believ the assignment can be explained as follows:

Each pair of trigrams assigned to the seasons has a yin and a yang aspect.

Thunder (Zhen) = yang/Self	Fire (Li) = yang/Self
Wind(Xun) = yin/Shadow	Earth (Kun) = yin/Shadow

etc.

 

[Hans_K]

Addition to previous post, as I forgot to post part of the explanation.
Only then the assignment of Shadow and Self would be slightly different than Tia Viatar describes.
In this case, it would be:
Zhen (Thunder), Li (Fire), Lake (Dui), Kan (Water) = Self
Xun (Wind), Kun (Earth), Qian (Heaven), Gen (Mountain) = Shadow.
So the main axes are yang or Self and the diagonals are yin or Shadow.
In this way the cyclical development to higher levels of Self is always through fathoming the Shadow aspects

 

[my_key]

Hi Hans

I've just checked my notes and they are not as well collated or referenced as perhaps they ought to be .
It appears that the trigram connections I quoted in post #11 could well be the seasonal positions as defined by Fu Xi's Earlier Heaven sequence. Your comments and those of Tihia Viator look to be firmly grounded in King Wen's Later Heaven arrangement.

So I extend my apologies to Tihia Viator, I was singing from different hymn book to him.

I do like the layout that you outline in your diagram where each season holds a vestige of Shadow and self within it. That seems a very natural yin / yang way of doing things.

For me this again shows that shadow imagery is hidden in plan sight in the I Ching - it's my chosen route of connection with Yi that has left me in sitting in the dark.

View attachment 5679

My curiosity now moves me to thinking about how a hexagram comprising two 'shadow' trigrams plays out. So there is shadow influencing inner and outer world in an archetypal manner. Conversely, when two self / consciousness trigrams go towards making up a hexagram how does that every pattern play out.

 

[Hans_K]

My curiosity now moves me to thinking about how a hexagram comprising two 'shadow' trigrams plays out. So there is shadow influencing inner and outer world in an archetypal manner. Conversely, when two self / consciousness trigrams go towards making up a hexagram how does that every pattern play out.

Interesting line of thought, but in a hexagram, the trigrams have a different polarity than in the assignments to the seasons. Here, the assignments of yin and yang as follows:
Thunder, Heaven, Water, and Mountain are yang trigrams
Wind, Fire, Lake, Earth are yin trigrams.
So the assignment yin and yang depends on the context.
Although Heaven in itself is a yang trigram, in the context of the seasons it is in a yin/Shadow position.
From going through a phase in a cycle, this can be explained and understood.
Perhaps with the seasons, it is better to speak of a shadow/ Self position rather than the trigram itself being the Self or Shadow.

 

[my_key]

Interesting line of thought, but in a hexagram, the trigrams have a different polarity than in the assignments to the seasons. Here, the assignments of yin and yang as follows:
Thunder, Heaven, Water, and Mountain are yang trigrams
Wind, Fire, Lake, Earth are yin trigrams.
So the assignment yin and yang depends on the context.
Although Heaven in itself is a yang trigram, in the context of the seasons it is in a yin/Shadow position.
From going through a phase in a cycle, this can be explained and understood.
Perhaps with the seasons, it is better to speak of a shadow/ Self position rather than the trigram itself being the Self or Shadow.

Thanks Hans. To be sure, that's saved me from setting off down a long and winding road in search of an invisible pot of gold.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

my_key:​

Its all good.
Hans_K:
I very much agree about the positions. : )

 

[Hans_K]

To return to the original topic of this thread
I think an archetype can be assigned for a number of hexagrams, or that certain hexagrams have archetypal qualities.
A few that come to mind:
The most obvious is H1: the Leader/Father(figure).
H2: The Mother(figure)
H10: The Diplomat (dealing with risky and precarious situations and finding a middle ground )
H16: The Shaman (see the text of the Image)
H56: The Researcher/Investigator
There are bound to be more like this.

 

[Hans_K]

A few more:
H3: The Explorer (a bit like the Fool in Tarot)
H4: The Child
H49: The Rebel
H51: The Initiator
H52: The Monk

 

[my_key]

That's added a fun element to the thread, I fancy. Not sure I see it all quite like you, though.

A few that come to mind:
The most obvious is H1: the Leader/Father(figure). Agree Creator / Inspiring Force
H2: The Mother(figure) Yes. The Caregiver also another term from the Mother
H10: The Diplomat (dealing with risky and precarious situations and finding a middle ground ) not clear to me
H16: The Shaman (see the text of the Image) aka The Magician improvising through grounded quake and thunder. Sounds promising. Magicians goal is to make dreams come true, now that is typical shaman.
H56: The Researcher/Investigator 56 might be The Explorer who seeks freedom to discover who he is. On the way to authenticity he burns his resting place

H3: The Explorer (a bit like the Fool in Tarot) The Fool is more like the Jester who is intent on living for now not mindful of consequences. Explorer more 56-like, perhaps. 3 counters it's natural tendencies by making plans. Although the Fool is the confidant and close associate of King and Queen, so 3 might be a natural place for him to sit. Not sure.
H4: The Child Yes, The Innocent might be another name to use. Highly ego centred and just keeps asking the wrong questions. Why?, why? why? and Are we nearly there yet?
H49: The Rebel Could well be. He likes to turn over what is not working. I also have 24 as a possible Rebel.
H51: The Initiator Yes this fits well. I did wonder about this one being The Hero proving worth through brave deeds. Are Hero and Initiator different names for the same archetype?
H52: The Monk I'm not familiar with this name. Keeping Still does carry monk like qualities. I was thinking of this one perhaps more of The Sage, who has contemplative and self-reflective qualities. Again are Monk and Sage on the same archetypal wavelength? Not Sure.

There seem to be a whole heap of names for top level Jung archetypes, with many different archetypes having holding several sub categories which can easily become confusing. It would be nice to have a list someone has already prepared as being definitive. On second thoughts, that would take a good part of the fun of dialogue and diversity out of the exchanges on this thread.

 

[Hans_K]

That's added a fun element to the thread, I fancy. Not sure I see it all quite like you, though.

That's fine, everyone can associate their own archetype with this.
By the way, I did not specifically look for Jungian archetypes.

 

[my_key]

That's fine, everyone can associate their own archetype with this.
By the way, I did not specifically look for Jungian archetypes.

Yes, I certainly don't see anything I've written as being definitive, but maybe a consensus of two counts towards something in some of the cases. Who knows? Perhaps others will join in the fun. of not knowing, too. Jung is only one way to skin the cat.

 

[Tihia Viatar]

So, to summarise, you see the autumn / winter movement as Shadow and the Spring /Summer movement as Self.

No, no, I view Shadow is Earth/Water. Can get any information, but with that on its surface is the info one doesn't dare to face, sometimes. So have to clash to open and receive or to use other ways.

From my understanding trigrams Kun & Zhen signify Winter; Dui & Li signify Spring; Xun & Qian signify Summer and trigrams Kan & Gen relate to Autumn. This traditional wisdom flies at odds with your groupings of the trigrams that you have gained through energy wave theory.

Well... Want to expand on the traditional info somewhat? : )
I get that is early heaven arrangment, while still use the 4 Images to go through the seasons/elements, but what is the logic behind using that for this?

 

[my_key]

Well... Want to expand on the traditional info somewhat? : )
I get that is early heaven arrangment, while still use the 4 Images to go through the seasons/elements, but what is the logic behind using that for this?

I hardly think you need my permission to expand on anything you would like to contribute to the Exploring Divination Forum.

Rather than going off into Early Heaven and all that has on offer (I did mistakenly introduce that, I know - no logic just error), I was hoping that this thread would continue with more dialogue and contributions from others to mapping hexagrams to archetypal qualities. So I'm wondering, what can you add in respect of this direction of advancement? It sounds like you have much that you can offer; if you want to that is.

 

[my_key]

As an afterthought to post#28:
Thinking about it some more,

1) There are no such things as errors or mistakes, just "happy little accidents". Thank you, Bob Ross. RIP
2) I'm certain there are many insights into archetypal and shadow energies when pre-heaven concepts are added to the equation, especially when the influence of pre-heaven onto post heaven experience is taken into consideration.

This could well bring forward deeper connection and insight into the subject matter for this thread. For me, right now, I am looking to focus on staying afloat in the waves of this post heaven ocean we all swim in.

 

[Hans_K]

I'm certain there are many insights into archetypal and shadow energies when pre-heaven concepts are added to the equation, especially when the influence of pre-heaven onto post heaven experience is taken into consideration.

There is another way of looking at the pre-heaven and post-heaven.
Pre-heaven is the world of the mind.
Post-heaven is the world of the experience.