35 Unchanging to ‘Why do I keep thinking of dying?’. Please Help.

[gfer72]

The reason I asked this question, is because I have been going through a dark night of the soul for over 3 years now.

I’ve lost almost everything. I’m over 50, and while I’ve been incredibly resilient all my life, and knew that there was always light at the end of the tunnel, and the darkest night before the dawn, I no longer feel that way as events of the last few months, have tipped me over into thinking that the light & the dawn might exist in redemptive stories in books & films that we would like to believe in, but that in real life, that’s just not true.

Very successful people seem to have succumbed to the inability to bear their inner suffering & its unrelenting return. Unlike them, I’m nothing, and have lost everything, and even after attempting to end things late last year (one more failure, as Seinfeld jokes cruelly), after a decade of such ideation, unheeded cries for help from ‘loved ones’, I now experience myself as nothing more than an unwanted burden on others.

After the attempt, instead of being more understanding, the ones closest to me, avoided me even more, and after the shock of trying to understand the loss of the already inadequate support at the darkest hour, it was in speaking to another survivor who had the same experience, that I realised, my family felt shame at what society would feel/think about them, since their son/husband/brother did the unthinkable & unforgivable. I understood them, felt less judgemental, but it made me even more alone.

My body has taken a severe beating because of a combination of self abuse & neglect over the last three years, and I was already weak before from the same things, and having had severe clinical depression for 7 years then (now over ten years), and a stent in my heart 3 years ago. I have not had my heart checked recently, despite the abuse/neglect/trauma in the last 3 years being many times more than what caused the blockage needing the stent in the first place, and the arrhythmia I have for ten years now. Because I’d rather ‘go’ than fight to stay on, anymore.

Now, I think of dying several times a day, and even of how to, without failing again. I keep telling myself that I have no right to bring shame upon my family, and/or guilt (I know some will be relieved I got it over with, but there are also those who I know will suffer), and that my final act of courage will be to let myself die ‘naturally’ (read somewhere of ‘slow suicide’), like a cousin of mine, who suffered somewhat similar issues did, too early at 60.

I can’t wait 10 more years, and am doing what I can to speed up the process.

Sorry for the really long lead up to my question about the I Ching, I thought the context was important in understanding the question, and probably went on too long.

I am confused by the 35 UC reading, and have looked at the shared readings on this site, as well as referred to other interpretations, and am still very confused about what it means.

I have some familiarity with the I Ching, since the last three years, have consulted many dozens of times, (mainly on this site, sometimes on cafe au soul) ie, am little better than a novice.

I’m in a lot of pain, and clutching at straws, and hoping the I Ching would help, and need your help to understand what the Tao is telling me.

Any help in understanding the reading is greatly appreciated.

 

[MeltingPot247]

The reason I asked this question, is because I have been going through a dark night of the soul for over 3 years now.

I’ve lost almost everything. I’m over 50, and while I’ve been incredibly resilient all my life, and knew that there was always light at the end of the tunnel, and the darkest night before the dawn, I no longer feel that way as events of the last few months, have tipped me over into thinking that the light & the dawn might exist in redemptive stories in books & films that we would like to believe in, but that in real life, that’s just not true.

Very successful people seem to have succumbed to the inability to bear their inner suffering & its unrelenting return. Unlike them, I’m nothing, and have lost everything, and even after attempting to end things late last year (one more failure, as Seinfeld jokes cruelly), after a decade of such ideation, unheeded cries for help from ‘loved ones’, I now experience myself as nothing more than an unwanted burden on others.

After the attempt, instead of being more understanding, the ones closest to me, avoided me even more, and after the shock of trying to understand the loss of the already inadequate support at the darkest hour, it was in speaking to another survivor who had the same experience, that I realised, my family felt shame at what society would feel/think about them, since their son/husband/brother did the unthinkable & unforgivable. I understood them, felt less judgemental, but it made me even more alone.

My body has taken a severe beating because of a combination of self abuse & neglect over the last three years, and I was already weak before from the same things, and having had severe clinical depression for 7 years then (now over ten years), and a stent in my heart 3 years ago. I have not had my heart checked recently, despite the abuse/neglect/trauma in the last 3 years being many times more than what caused the blockage needing the stent in the first place, and the arrhythmia I have for ten years now. Because I’d rather ‘go’ than fight to stay on, anymore.

Now, I think of dying several times a day, and even of how to, without failing again. I keep telling myself that I have no right to bring shame upon my family, and/or guilt (I know some will be relieved I got it over with, but there are also those who I know will suffer), and that my final act of courage will be to let myself die ‘naturally’ (read somewhere of ‘slow suicide’), like a cousin of mine, who suffered somewhat similar issues did, too early at 60.

I can’t wait 10 more years, and am doing what I can to speed up the process.

Sorry for the really long lead up to my question about the I Ching, I thought the context was important in understanding the question, and probably went on too long.

I am confused by the 35 UC reading, and have looked at the shared readings on this site, as well as referred to other interpretations, and am still very confused about what it means.

I have some familiarity with the I Ching, since the last three years, have consulted many dozens of times, (mainly on this site, sometimes on cafe au soul) ie, am little better than a novice.

I’m in a lot of pain, and clutching at straws, and hoping the I Ching would help, and need your help to understand what the Tao is telling me.

Any help in understanding the reading is greatly appreciated.

Dear sweet soul,

I sense the pain and suffering you write of in your post. At 34 years old, I've also had similar thoughts and feelings. We live in a world, an environment where we are surrounded by people - yet can still feel all alone. Like outcasts.

35 unchanging - speaks of a time when you are going through the motions in life and can not see that you are making any progress - but you do advance with every single day that you stay here on this Earth plant, that courage you speak of to go through the same pain each day and to wait to die a natural death so that you do not cause others you care about additional shame and or pain/ suffering. You don't want to take yourself out for the effects you know it might have on them.

What I try to do, when I start to feel the way you are now is do my favorite activities, keep myself busy - make money so that I can buy more stuff for myself to enjoy - but a lot of my favorite activities are kind of free...singing, dancing.

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Facebook/ Instagram TikTok etc - but the first two are potential avenues for you to join online groups that match your interests, with people that actually meet up as well and the latter TikTok has a lot of short videos that depending on what you watch, like or dislike will start to show more of what interests you and less of what doesn't.

The only insight I have for you right now is that 35 unchanging is showing you that the reason you are thinking of death and dying more often is because you want or need to find something to live for again.

Best of luck - I got this visualization of putting your hand on your heart and taking deep breaths. If you can and need to cry...sometimes it helps to let pain out.

 

[hilary]

Gfer, I've sent you a private message - you can find it here:

https://onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/index.php?conversations/

 

[Trojina]

After the attempt, instead of being more understanding, the ones closest to me, avoided me even more, and after the shock of trying to understand the loss of the already inadequate support at the darkest hour, it was in speaking to another survivor who had the same experience, that I realised, my family felt shame at what society would feel/think about them, since their son/husband/brother did the unthinkable & unforgivable. I understood them, felt less judgemental, but it made me even more alone.

There's the pair there, 36, that feeling of not being accepted. You didn't get 36 but 35 and 36 are two sides of the same coin. One moment our name is mud, the next it is celebrated and neither are any measure of our actual worth, they are fleeting experiences that most often don't seem so fleeting.

But your life doesn't belong to your family, it doesn't even come from your family, nor does it come from society, it is from Life itself or God herself from where you can draw support when other people fail you, they aren't all there is, there is greater resource for you than that. It's important to know that and call upon that in prayer or whatever form your spirituality takes. Other people aren't all there is. Other people's opinion of you do not determine your life or worth. And often in families there is one person playing the role of the one with all the problems and he's doing a kind of job for the family - you often see that - on some level one person's suffering in the family serves a function for the family and that person's expense.

So you didn't cast 36 where one feels everything you describe, outcast, unappreciated, you have felt all that but here you cast 35

Now, I think of dying several times a day, and even of how to, without failing again. I keep telling myself that I have no right to bring shame upon my family, and/or guilt (I know some will be relieved I got it over with, but there are also those who I know will suffer), and that my final act of courage will be to let myself die ‘naturally’ (read somewhere of ‘slow suicide’), like a cousin of mine, who suffered somewhat similar issues did, too early at 60.

I can’t wait 10 more years, and am doing what I can to speed up the process.

Sorry for the really long lead up to my question about the I Ching, I thought the context was important in understanding the question, and probably went on too long.

I am confused by the 35 UC reading, and have looked at the shared readings on this site, as well as referred to other interpretations, and am still very confused about what it means.

You already know why you think of dying as you have told us about the factors that make you feel this way...but Yi gave you 35uc which here to me makes me think of finding an opportunity in each moment of your life now. I don't mean big opportunities but the tiny ones that come free. 35 is a new day, the sun coming over the horizon, all those moments being little opportunities for your life to flourish

'Prospering, Prince Kang used a gift of horses to breed a multitude.
He mated them three times in one day.'

So Yi is showing you as having a gift of opportunity and right now I don't feel this is opportunity as in some big life development but being in each moment. Particularly a gift each day brings is beauty, there aren't days that hold no beauty and there isn't a day it's not there for you. If in one day you have enjoyed the wind blowing the leaves or light on the water or the taste of your coffee then you have used 'a gift of horses', you have taken what life gives you that day and multiplied it. Even a casual artist or writer multiplies that moment of beauty multiple times.

Here is the Image from Hilary and her commentary in wiki - inserting your name

'Brightness comes forth over the earth. Prospering.
The noble one's (gfer72's) own light shines in her de.'

The brightness coming out above the earth is like sunrise. There's also the awareness - behind this - that the sun is daily renewed in the earth; the earth sustains the light. Much as light emerges from the earth, the noble one's light is an emergent property of her earth, of the stuff she's made of and the everyday things she does. Her inner quality sustains her shining out. (If you receive this one, maybe you don't need to try so hard; maybe you naturally tend to illuminate what you do.)

It might be worth repeating the Image with your own real name in in place of 'the noble one' here because of course you are the noble one, Yi is showing what you as the noble one does here. The fact that you have suffered much and abused yourself does not touch the nobility of your own life. You are meant to be here on this earth on this day, I see Yi as showing you you're being given these days as gifts you can make things out of. I don't mean worldly achievements I mean just taking what the day has to offer. I knew someone who did 'a drawing a day' - she committed to doing a drawing of something she saw every single day however she felt. I think that's a very 35 thing to do. I wonder if there is any kind of creativity you are drawn to, if so however small and fragile it is could you 'mate' it, that is someone who draws perceives and then mates from that perception.

I am aware all of this may sound trite given the level of suffering you are experiencing and I do encourage you to seek support from outside your family if you can. You still have plenty of life to live, 'every day has something for you' is how I see 35 here. If you are alive on this planet right now there is the possibility to flourish - this part of your life is not the end of all possibilities.

I personally believe in prayer so I will pray for you and so may others and also I encourage you to pray for yourself also.

 

[marybluesky]

Dear @gfer72 ,

just want to express my solidarity. If you read the posts on this forum since 3 years ago you'll see how many people- including myself- have been diagnosed with neurosis during this dark period. So no wonder what you're going through. It can be a form of long Covid by the way, in other words, as the virus finds the weak point of people, it may cause mental suffering in people with fragile nervous system.

And I came to know that the family- that is expected to love us unconditionally- love us just as long as we're not a shame or burden. Sad but true.

You have asked why you think about death that much, and the answer is 35. I'd say: because you have an advanced case of depression.

I don't know what can help you. Maybe you can ask another I Ching question. When you're in the dark it seems that nothing can save you but that's different when you're out. Is there any group therapy or something similar where you live? Or even online?

 

[emiliana2010]

Dearest gfer72, the answer to "Why do I keep thinking of dying?" isn't it obvious? It seeems to me to be self explanatory after reading your story. It pains me to understand how you're groping in the dark and yet the question you asked seems to me not a question that could have helped you.

The Yi can tell you:
- how to cope with this difficult times;
- which is the best attitude you can have to overcome this period of your life;
- what is appropriate, timely and beneficial for you to do in this situation;
- what is the silver lining in this situation you're living;
- what's the general diagnosis of your situation;
and countless more others that can give you some tools.

Go for it!

All the best!

 

[rosada]

They say that when we die we don't regret so much the things we did as the things we didn't do - the risks we didn't take, the invitations we didn't accept, the gorgeous stallions (or mares) we never mated. I see 35 as saying you find yourself thinking about death at this time because you are recognizing you don't have an endless summer still ahead. Your higher self is urging you to quit stalling. Life is short! Mate your stallions! Live your dream!

 

[IrfanK]

35 shows a point on a cycle: The sun rises above the earth. Then it sets, then it rises again. This part of your cycle seems to be going on for a long time, and it probably feels like forever. But cycles do pass.

Wishing you all the best, an agnostic's prayers. I hope you find strength and grace to pass through it.

 

[gfer72]

I am overwhelmed with the support from so many of you. Haven’t replied earlier, for what would be obvious reasons (was even afraid to read responses) to your good souls. More later, as I reflect on the various points shared. Thank you all, so, so much. And please keep the support and advice coming, it is indeed very welcome in this darkness.

One question…..

marybluesky, you say “You have asked why you think about death that much, and the answer is 35. I'd say: because you have an advanced case of depression.”

35 UC is ‘Progress’ I understand. Not Depression. I’ve gone through various interpretations of the Judgement & the Image, and I was leaning along the lines of ‘you need to rise above those people/circumstances that are holding you down to be the sun that you are, to make it through the dark night of the soul’

Sharing Wilhelm’s interpretation below, (parts bolded by me).

Please continue offering your suggestions. Since I posted my question, I have been pulled both ways,
- have received powerful signs I am on the right path (life long quest for awakening/meaning/purpose, leading to the dark night of the soul of the last three years),
- as well as powerful urges to ‘end it all’, as the denial of my being, from the human beings around me, that I cannot unentangle myself from, pushes beyond the breaking point I feel I passed a long time ago,

when I ‘pulled the plug on myself’, only to discover exactly what marybluesky said:

“And I came to know that the family- that is expected to love us unconditionally- love us just as long as we're not a shame or burden. Sad but true.”

Thank you all again, and please do keep sharing, this soul needs you all.

Infinite Love & Gratitude,
gfer72


——————————————
35. Chin / Progress

above LI THE CLINGING, FIRE
below K'UN THE RECEPTIVE, EARTH

The hexagram represents the sun rising over the earth. It is therefore the symbol of rapid, easy progress, which at the same time means ever widening expansion and clarity.

THE JUDGMENT

PROGRESS. The powerful prince
Is honored with horses in large numbers.
In a single day he is granted audience three times.

As an example of progress, this pictures a time when a powerful feudal lord rallies the other lords around the sovereign and pledges fealty and peace. The sovereign rewards him richly and invites him to a closer intimacy.

A twofold idea is set forth here. The actual effect of the progress emanates from a man who is in a dependent position and whom the others regard as their equal and are therefore willing to follow. This leader has enough clarity of vision not to abuse his great influence but to use it rather for the benefit of his ruler. His ruler in turn is free of all jealousy, showers presents on the great man, and invites him continually to his court. An enlightened ruler and an obedient servant--this is the condition on which great progress depends.

THE IMAGE

The sun rises over the earth:

The image of PROGRESS.

Thus the superior man himself
Brightens his bright virtue.

The light of the sun rises over the earth is by nature clear. The higher the sun rises, the more it emerges from the dark mists, spreading the pristine purity of its rays over an ever widening area. The real nature of man is likewise originally good, but it becomes clouded by contact with earthly things and therefore needs purification before it can shine forth in its native clarity.

 

[rosada]

Thank you for encouraging us to continue posting our thoughts here on this fascinating yet under-discussed subject. The taboo against talking about death has held back consciousness far too long.

Interesting how 35 means ideas coming to light and how the Image - the lesson to be gotten from the experience - "The Superior man himself brightens his bright virtue." - is that each man has the ability to be his own light, to find the light within, to connect with Source, pure consciousness. Perhaps leading to the awareness that death, eternal darkness - unconsciousness - cannot be experienced because our light - consciousness - is eternal so everywhere we go we see light, a reflection of our own light/consciousness because we ourselves are the light.

I think one of the reasons there is the taboo about mentioning death is that we all intuitively recognize the connection between talking about something and having it manifest so we instinctively avoid that conversation. However, in this era of war and the internet it is impossible to pretend we can outsmart death by simply ignoring it. We must study death from all directions. Untangle the snarl of fear around it. Death is the great unknown. Admit we are curious.

Hmm.. now the challenge to find ways to know what death is without having to experience it first hand! Sounds like the reverse of the problem posed back at the beginning of the I Ching journey - How to know life without having to experience it first hand? (3. Difficult Beginning can't progress without 4. Life Experience.)

 

[gfer72]

@rosada, love your philosophical perspectives on living & dying, and bringing them into the light.

Do you have any guidance about the reading? Thank you.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Gfer72,

My heart is with your question and Yi's answer. As Marybluesky mentioned, many people on the forum have struggled or are with similar emotions, fears, cycles.

Myself I am barely emerging from such an anxious, spun out and traumatized state of being that can only make sense as a loss and dissociation from the Self or the inner source that animates each one of us.
I turned towards the Yi in these times to the point of dependency and obsessive compulsion. Asking way too many questions.

Yet Yi has not let me down and the guidance that shines through the hexagrams now seems to follow me throughout life, in images and numbers, like a comforting presence, a friend.
True friends can love each other through difficulty, disagreement, or imbalance so long as there is an emergent dialog, a respect, a choice to trust.
Humans are fickle and often sway to the winds of opinion, social stigma. It hurts to be abandoned for these reasons but especially as someone who "bears suffering" for a family system or a culture that refuses to look death in the eye, it is part of living to choose to go on anyways.
For that we need deeper Source like the Well of 48, or to become the tree of 47 who's roots reach down deep while in confinement. Yi demonstrates reliable communication with that source, and so I do trust the Yi on many things more than fellow humans. The Oracle is a beautiful witness and guide through loneliness.


So your reading:

35 follows from 34, "much force."
It takes great, deep inner power and strength to survive suicidal depression and dark night of the soul. Those on the outside of it seem so far away, and the loneliness penetrating all things. To come out of such a period requires forcing oneself to go against what feels natural while also surrendering to it.

This is not based on the text of the Yi so much as my intuitive relationship with the oracle. But between that force and Yang strength required to come back from self abusive and neglectful ways of existing, and the 36 wounded brightness where one sort of pretends to be weak to protect the Self's inner light....that is where 35 lives. Between using force, and hiding, is a vital life.

What Trojina said above resonated with my own readings from the Yi in a similar state of mind. Every day there is a chance to find something to live for, some sort of vitality, some mare or stallion to mate.

There is an emptiness in the chest during severe depression that is like a vortex or a black hole. A destructive magnetic force. Meanwhile there are voices that push you towards it, within your own head and heart, or outside as family or community express their feelings about YOUR pain and choices.
Surviving this force is like Odysseus having to sail between Scylla the monster and Charybdis the whirlpool.

I hope not to overstep here. However...I would likely not be alive without the Yi, this forum of warm and honest souls, and a group of spiritual somatic therapist friends who all speak openly of this force, of death, and violence, but also tought me techniques of "countervortex."

There are exercise you can do to imagine within the body a positive, calm, or grounding force that balances out the dark or empty void feelings. Some of these techniques, like Emotional Freedom Technique, can be done alone, or with guidance from a healing practitioner. Another person's presence, or a good habit, or a connection with a natural force such as trees or rivers can be a "countervortex" that knit the soul into life again where it has been dancing with death.

Personally I kept hearing to start with one easy habit and chose taking supplements and medicine daily every morning. So far it is working to keep me from collapsing back.

Perhaps the Yi is offering you comfort in the image of the sun rising out of the dark, naturally, with little effort, if only you can commit to greeting it each day by "brightening the self" through some small act of self love and care.

The noble one is an obedient servant and an enlightened leader because a true leader leads through service to those who are dependent on him.
This also brings to mind pets, plants, children - are there any beings that depend on you for care? A reason to keep going perhaps?
My cat and houseplants have been that for me through very dark times.

 

[rosada]

Thinking about how 35. Progress mentions the importance of the man being one of the people whom others regard as their equal so that as the blessings bestowed on him by the prince will ultimately be shared with the masses. So then I'm thinking what makes people equals? And I'm realizing that Death is the greatest equalizer of all. So from there I'm thinking that as we recognize death ultimately comes for us all what should we be inspired to do and as with the prince giving the blessings to the man so he might help others, likewise perhaps thoughts of death can motivate us to consider not just what we want to experience for ourselves - for indeed there may not be anything more we want to do - but also to think what we are called to pass on before we go.

 

[1Dreamwalker1]

The reason I asked this question, is because I have been going through a dark night of the soul for over 3 years now.

I’ve lost almost everything. I’m over 50, and while I’ve been incredibly resilient all my life, and knew that there was always light at the end of the tunnel, and the darkest night before the dawn, I no longer feel that way as events of the last few months, have tipped me over into thinking that the light & the dawn might exist in redemptive stories in books & films that we would like to believe in, but that in real life, that’s just not true.

Very successful people seem to have succumbed to the inability to bear their inner suffering & its unrelenting return. Unlike them, I’m nothing, and have lost everything, and even after attempting to end things late last year (one more failure, as Seinfeld jokes cruelly), after a decade of such ideation, unheeded cries for help from ‘loved ones’, I now experience myself as nothing more than an unwanted burden on others.

After the attempt, instead of being more understanding, the ones closest to me, avoided me even more, and after the shock of trying to understand the loss of the already inadequate support at the darkest hour, it was in speaking to another survivor who had the same experience, that I realised, my family felt shame at what society would feel/think about them, since their son/husband/brother did the unthinkable & unforgivable. I understood them, felt less judgemental, but it made me even more alone.

My body has taken a severe beating because of a combination of self abuse & neglect over the last three years, and I was already weak before from the same things, and having had severe clinical depression for 7 years then (now over ten years), and a stent in my heart 3 years ago. I have not had my heart checked recently, despite the abuse/neglect/trauma in the last 3 years being many times more than what caused the blockage needing the stent in the first place, and the arrhythmia I have for ten years now. Because I’d rather ‘go’ than fight to stay on, anymore.

Now, I think of dying several times a day, and even of how to, without failing again. I keep telling myself that I have no right to bring shame upon my family, and/or guilt (I know some will be relieved I got it over with, but there are also those who I know will suffer), and that my final act of courage will be to let myself die ‘naturally’ (read somewhere of ‘slow suicide’), like a cousin of mine, who suffered somewhat similar issues did, too early at 60.

I can’t wait 10 more years, and am doing what I can to speed up the process.

Sorry for the really long lead up to my question about the I Ching, I thought the context was important in understanding the question, and probably went on too long.

I am confused by the 35 UC reading, and have looked at the shared readings on this site, as well as referred to other interpretations, and am still very confused about what it means.

I have some familiarity with the I Ching, since the last three years, have consulted many dozens of times, (mainly on this site, sometimes on cafe au soul) ie, am little better than a novice.

I’m in a lot of pain, and clutching at straws, and hoping the I Ching would help, and need your help to understand what the Tao is telling me.

Any help in understanding the reading is greatly appreciated.

According to Wilhelm/Baynes, Hexagram 35 means easy and rapid progress. This means that you will start overcoming your problems before long. This hexagram does not say anything about your frequent thoughts of death. It just indicates that your frequent thoughts of death will come to an end with the general uplifting of your whole situation.

 

[gfer72]

Thank you, kestrelw1ngs & 1Dreamwalker1.