38.1.3 narcissism comments

[kestrelw1ngs]

So the theme of narcissism and narcissists, keeps appearing in my life. Having dated one before who groomed me and taught me a lot about how to navigate life, or been friends with people who are accused of being such, and been prey to narcissistic pseudo spirituality, I often wonder if my own traits line up the same way. Or if I enable these traits in others. Either way I want to be free. Many therapists say true narcissists cannot change but I do think one can wake up from narcissistic traits, and address core wounds that lead to such defensive and self centered attitudes, in some cases.

I and most of my friends are on the autism spectrum and some traits are very confusing to sort out.
But I am aware of my own closed off attitudes, insecurity, and anxiety about validation. None of my relationships are really feeling warm, healthy or present, and everything external in my life is sort of falling apart as I come to terms with my relational tendencies and mistakes.

So I figured to ask the Yi to simply comment:
"What do you have to say about the role of narcissism in my life?"

38.1.3 >50

Line 1:​

Aversion goes away.
The lost horse didn't run away by itself again.
See the dislike.
The other is without fault.

The other person doesn't want to be with one. Try to see what the other dislikes, as this other person isn't wrong here. One will get used to the situation.

Line 3:​

Seeing a wagon being dragged,
its ox held back,
its man has a branded forehead and even a cut off nose.
Without beginning it ends.

Being traumatized. There is past hurt that is now holding one back.

Relating hexagram 50. Something is "cooking" like a big realization?

I wonder if it is as simple as the Yi reflecting back this impulse to reflect on my relationships that have failed or ended in withdrawal, to see what the other people found offensive or why the "horse ran away." And possibly allow them space to come back to be real about things on their own time.

And line 3, that the root of these problems is a past hurt/trauma.

Does anyone have any insight on this cast?

I mostly share it because it seems like one of those moments the Yi is uncannily accurate in its reflective quality. And a good description on what narcissism fails to recognize:
A. Other people have feelings, your actions affect them
B. The root cause of alienating behavior is often hurt, trauma and unaddressed inner pain.

 

[moss elk]

Narcissists are stuck in a very immature developmental stage,
We were all 5 year olds once... but some people stay that way.
There is little one can do from the outside to change them.

Line 1 is advice on dealing with evil people.
(Two good reasons not to chase the horse: One may get kicked,
and such pursuit causes you to neglect your farm.)

Line 3 is what it is like to be in relation with a narcissist.

What translation are you using?
That translation of line 1 seems... off the mark.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Narcissists are stuck in a very immature developmental stage,
We were all 5 year olds once... but some people stay that way.
There is little one can do from the outside to change them.

Line 1 is advice on dealing with evil people.
(Two good reasons not to chase the horse: One may get kicked,
and such pursuit causes you to neglect your farm.)

Line 3 is what it is like to be in relation with a narcissist.

What translation are you using?
That translation of line 1 seems... off the mark.

I am using Edward Berkers translation as found online at eclecticenergies.com

 

[moss elk]

I am using Edward Berkers translation as found online at eclecticenergies.com

Try Bradford Hatcher, line 1:

'Regrets pass
The missing horse
Should not be pursued:
it returns on its own
Upon seeing the worst in others
Simply avoid mistakes'

Or Here is Wilhelm:
'Remorse disappears. If you lose your horse, do not run after it; it will come back of its own accord. When you see evil people, guard yourself against mistakes.'


Berkers has really missed the mark here.
The Horse runs away all by itself,
And the horse is also the 'evil people'

It's advice how to deal with a certain kind of person...

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

Try Bradford Hatcher, line 1:

'Regrets pass
The missing horse
Should not be pursued:
it returns on its own
Upon seeing the worst in others
Simply avoid mistakes'

Or Here is Wilhelm:
'Remorse disappears. If you lose your horse, do not run after it; it will come back of its own accord. When you see evil people, guard yourself against mistakes.'


Berkers has really missed the mark here.
The Horse runs away all by itself,
And the horse is also the 'evil people'

It's advice how to deal with a certain kind of person...

Thank you, that is a different tone altogether. Almost opposite.
More of a "stay alert for red flags" and less of a "give credit to the other."

My anxiety is if course that I might be said Evil Horse but not sure Yi can really assuage, confirm or deny that suspicion.

Its interesting though, looking back through old readings to spot patterns.

Once I asked "is X a narcissist?" and hexagram 38 was also the answer, but with lines 2, 4 and 6 changing to hex 24.

which led me to believe, given line 6, I was projecting. or perhaps the line about X feeling unable to trust others.

The other cast related was me asking "how do I rectify my own narcissistic traits?"
And Yi answered with 12.1.2>10

12.1, this line has come up repeatedly in relationship and friendship questions too.

Berkers translates it as

Line 1:​

Pulling out grass with entangled roots, because of its accumulation.
Persistence brings good fortune.
Progressing.

Removing something that has accumulated and is now in the way, weeding it out by the root. Under the surface, things may be more entangled than one thought. Things go well by persevering with this. There is progress being made.

And 12.2 I count having come up 5 times at least in the last 6 months of readings. Always in relation to a question about myself, or relationship difficulties.

And now I feel I ought to look at some other translations of these lines, and hexagram 38 as a whole. For a greater understanding of this issue.

 

[moss elk]

More of a "stay alert for red flags"

Bingo.
Or maybe 'you've just seen a red flag'
(Upon seeing the worst in others....)


And to stay on the farm (abiding in dignity and virtue) instead of trying to run after & domesticate or civilize that type...

 

[marybluesky]

What do you have to say about the role of narcissism in my life?"

38.1.3 >50
50 shows something that cooks and transforms. Those narcisstists seem to have a significant role on you growing up as a personality, maybe by teaching that: 38.1: you should not run after them; and 38.3: such a relationship causes shame and hurt but leads to nowhere.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

What do you have to say about the role of narcissism in my life?"

38.1.3 >50
50 shows something that cooks and transforms. Those narcisstists seem to have a significant role on you growing up as a personality, maybe by teaching that: 38.1: you should not run after them; and 38.3: such a relationship causes shame and hurt but leads to nowhere.

It really does seem that simple.

Its hard returning to a long neglected farm and setting to work on it. Much more thrilling to chase after horses, but the weed's roots just get deeper the longer you stay away.

38 is sort of the cast I expect for questions of differentiation and identity formation. In a sense it might feel like estrangement to forget the horse and get back to ones self, but estrangement from the self is the real danger and what "cooks" people into narcissism in the first place.

I remember the ex who had a big impact on me fantasizing about ending his life or purposefully going to jail. And how it hurt to understand he did not think of me or loved ones at all in considering the future.

After a very rough and emotionally destructive patch in life I have felt similar self destructive urges. At the worst of those feelings someone told me to consider how my negative attitudes and actions were impacting my friends. It was not what I wanted to hear at the time (I wanted pity, and validation of my emotion) but doing so is what pulled me out of that dark place.

Self destruction really is a vortex that can suck you in. I need to be much more careful of who I trust and attatch to going forward because that energy sticks.

Try to be a life preserver for a drowning thrashing person and you both go under, more often than not.

Thanks to you both.