50.2

[clarissa]

Someone said in another thread (Dobro?) that...

"50.2 is good news in that it's fortunate, but in the context of 'relationship and communication' it's not so good cuz it talks about how the other party is incapable of approaching you because of illusions and afflictions on their part. You're holding up your side of the equation, but the other person can't match you"

Why does this sound so different from Wilhelm? Hilary also offered something about wanting to help...but not being able...which sounds similar to the above. I'm confused because Wilhelm seems to be saying something totally different.

 

[Liselle]

Does this line have anything to do with "success envy," maybe?

 

[dobro p]

"Why does this sound so different from Wilhelm?"

Good question. And the answer to that question is one that a *lot* of people need to know about. The answer is simple: it sounds different from Wilhelm, cuz I'm not Wilhelm. I agree with Wilhelm a lot of the time in a general kind of way, but nowhere near all of the time. Why's that? Well, it's cuz the Yi lends itself to interpretation - see, the images in the Yi can often be seen as having a range of meanings, not just a single meaning. So anyway, when I read 50.2, I see the situation as being one of something like "I've got something really good here, and that generates some envy on the part of those around me, but that's okay" - I see distance between the parties involved. That's why I read the situation like I did.

But this raises a whole different and very important question: how valid is my interpretation for somebody else's situation and consultation of the Yi? My answer to that question is this: perhaps I'm useful to somebody who can't do their own interpretations, but I'm not as useful as somebody who does their own interpretations. See, I think that when the person asking the question lets the Yi's response sit in the their mind and allows associations to rise naturally, they will get information which is specific to them and which only they can understand.

It's like this. It's like a person asks something like: "What do I need to know about eating fish and chips? Can somebody here help me with this one?" And so I come along and say something like: "Well, eating fish and chips is like this..." and I eat some fish and chips to show you how. Yeah, that's cool, cuz you get to see how somebody eats fish and chips (and I get to eat some fish and chips, which I really like, by the way) and maybe you learn something about eating fish and chips as a result. But compare that second-hand experience to one where *you* eat your own fish and chips. Delicious. Plus you get fed. So you see, it doesn't matter whether Wilhelm eats the fish and chips, or whether I eat it, the result is still not as good as if you eat it.

Damn, this is making me hungry...

 

[bradford_h]

Hi
I lean towards Dobro's interpretation as well.
The accomplishment is not of something significant, as Wilhelm claims, but of something simple. Richard Wilhelm didn't understand the importance of the Zhi Gua (like his son Helmut later began to). The Zhi Gua here is the Wanderer. It's that he has enough that is disturbing to the envious onlooker. But this is very much the onlooker's problem.

 

[pakua]

Hi Dobro,

"perhaps I'm useful to somebody who can't do their own interpretations, but I'm not as useful as somebody who does their own interpretations. "

I don't think so - unless I admit that I can't really do my own interpretations

I had 50.2.6 some months ago, about which I spoke a bit here, and I've been puzzling and thinking about it ever since. Yesterday when I read Clarissa's post quoting you, something clicked about the 50.2 part, and I felt something like relief wash over me, because finally I get that part of it.

It helps a lot to see your point of view, and not just this one example.

 

[luz]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

But this raises a whole different and very important question: how valid is my interpretation for somebody else's situation and consultation of the Yi? My answer to that question is this: perhaps I'm useful to somebody who can't do their own interpretations, but I'm not as useful as somebody who does their own interpretations. See, I think that when the person asking the question lets the Yi's response sit in the their mind and allows associations to rise naturally, they will get information which is specific to them and which only they can understand.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
I agree with Pakua, I think even if you do your own interpretations (which, btw, I think it's how it's meant to be, and what Dobro says in the quote confirms it for me), if you do seek other 'input' or opinions is because your mind is willing to take them and allow more associations to rise from this other points of views.. you get food for thought, fish and chips for the intuition, so to speak

 

[clarissa]

"something clicked about the 50.2 part, and I felt something like relief wash over me, because finally I get that part of it."

Can you explain?...because I'm still stuck with that interpretation. However, the idea that someone may not be ABLE to do something they want to do might possibly fit with my question. Was 50.2 something like this for you?

 

[bruce]

my refrigerator is full
my friends don?t understand how I manage
the gods do not abandon me

 

[clarissa]

Ok...let's see if I can make sense out of this:

"50.2 is good news in that it's fortunate, but in the context of 'relationship and communication' it's not so good cuz it talks about how the other party is incapable of approaching you because of illusions and afflictions on their part. You're holding up your side of the equation, but the other person can't match you"

My question was about what I mean to someone. The answer was 50.2 -> 56 Am I the "food in the ting" that is unapproachable because the other party has some problem? ....or am I making the "comrades" of this person envious? (That seems very farfetched here) Honestly, I don't get it.

 

[bruce]

Maybe he's a little jealous of what you have?

 

[clarissa]

"Maybe he's a little jealous of what you have?"

That can't be it Bruce...it doesn't make any sense. Me making the "comrades" jealous doesn't seem to make any sense either. However, not being able to approach because of "illusions and afflictions" MIGHT be more applicable...which is why I'd like to hear more about that aspect of it. What a puzzler!

 

[bruce]

hmm, dunno. it's a puzzlement alright.

I know that when I've gotten 50.2 in the past, it was usually a situation where some friends or associates seemed unnerved about me being content or happy, in spite of obstacles. There seemed a sense of ?how can he be happy or content??

Of course there is always the possibility that you (your cauldron) AND your comrades are both you. I?ve found that type of thing to play out too, on occasion. It?s like part of yourself seems full and content, but the other part seems anxious about it all. I realize your question was about him, but I never overlook the possibility that Yi is speaking to my own head about the situation. Sometimes both: ?as above, so below? type thing.

 

[dobro p]

"my refrigerator is full
my friends don?t understand how I manage
the gods do not abandon me"

my plate's loaded with fish and chips
folks hereabouts don't dig it
it's a righteous meal though

 

[bradford_h]

Who'da thunk 50.2 could inspire haiku?

box o' brussel sprouts
falls off a truck. I'm hitching,
broke, starved. Can't eat 'em.

 

[bruce]

ok
that one did it

 

[micheline]

this person likes you a lot, Clarissa, but somebody else ain't gonna be too happy about it.

If it's a man, there could be another woman who will get miffed if he pursues you.and he knows this. Or he suspects that someone in your life will not be happy about his feelings for you.

The "food in the ting", I would suspect, are the person's good feelings for you.

 

[clarissa]

"...but somebody else ain't gonna be too happy about it"

This is where my mind is going with this one and based on something I heard I don't think it's another woman.

I also received 50.6 regarding this person's feelings for me at one time as well. However, nothing happened. I never heard from him again. This 50.2 reading is from a month ago (or more)...and I never understood it at the time...so I thought I'd take another look at it...trying to see if it will make more sense now. I did recently ask two questions which might shed some light on the answer:

What role will this person play in my life in the coming year? Answer: 5 unchanging
(I was trying to understand whether or not this is over.)

What am I waiting for?
60.6 -> 61

Waiting for a "galling limitation" to pass. (Is this limitation self-imposed...or imposed from without?) The plot thickens!

NOTE: I don't want anyone to get the impression that this is a major life issue for me. It has turned into a major curiousity though. Yeah, I liked the guy...and yeah, I'd like to know just what on earth is going on because I know he REALLY liked me. (No, I'm not going to ask him. It doesn't feel right.) However, I'm not losing sleep over it. I also have this strange feeling the guy is going to surface again...and explain.

Dobro,

I think your "fish and chips" example is it. Someone doesn't like this.

 

[yly2pg1]

<font size="-2">"Maybe he's a little jealous of what you have?"

That can't be it Bruce...it doesn't make any sense. Me making the "comrades" jealous doesn't seem to make any sense either. However, not being able to approach because of "illusions and afflictions" MIGHT be more applicable...which is why I'd like to hear more about that aspect of it. What a puzzler!</font>

In the context of 50.2, see if you situations fit into any of these profile.

(1) The element of jealousy is not obvious to the diviner. (However, it is the underlying factor that affect you).

(2) You may have 'completed' something which to you is simple and natural, probably you are a simple and pure-minded person? What you have completed may become a 'benchmark'(or comparison) to what other have done. So, when both come into comparison, what you have simply done, excels what other have completed!

(3) The other party may occupy higher position (in the area of involvement)than you and thus perceive you as inferior when compared to him/her. So, he/she is not able to take the notion that you have 'accomplished' something significant (at least in their perception).

(4) Don't be surprised to find out the 'impact' of what you have done far exceed what you have perceived yourself.

And if you find some truth (but rather vague itself) in some of these points, it is all because ego, pride and afflictions are in essence illusionary.

 

[clarissa]

Yl,

I think 1,2, and 4 are all possibilities. Number 3 doesn't seem very likely. I would like you to expand a bit on number 4 though. Why do you say that the impact may be much greater than I imagine?

 

[yly2pg1]

On (4):
The fact is you do not create any 'impact' to anyone. This is never your intention at all. Ironically, your simplicity make those who are involved in the situation feel hurt and afflicted. (You may or may not aware of their existence from the start). The extent of this affliction and jealousy always leads to bad actions, e.g. lies, defamation and provocation. (These actions always lead to vicious cycle of lies and evils, as one lie cover the other, so entropies proliferate!).

I think what Bruce mentioned above is very true indeed! Beware.

 

[clarissa]

Yl,

In other words, a simple act with good intentions that was perhaps...misunderstood?

Bruce,

You said,

"I know that when I've gotten 50.2 in the past, it was usually a situation where some friends or associates seemed unnerved about me being content or happy, in spite of obstacles. There seemed a sense of ?how can he be happy or content??"

I'd say that this is a very definite possibility....perhaps because the friends or associates have only a partial understanding..or because they are envious? I can't see the envy here...but it does make sense if we think of these associates or friends not having the whole picture. In other words, not understanding.

 

[clarissa]

Incidently, I also received 47.4 in a question related to him. Wilhelm's commentary speaks about powerful people surrounding someone and that person not being in a position to do anything. Could these be the people in 50.2?

When I asked what the obstacle was here I received 21 unchanging. The obstacle is an obstacle? .....or does the obstacle have something to do with a legal matter? Any ideas?

 

[bradford_h]

there's a little grammatic play in 50.2

the cauldron hold's substance
our counterpart's holds afflictions (or anxieties)
not something we can pursue
fortunately

The afflictions are not necessarily a result
of the contents of our own fortune.
We may simply have done a better job attending to
our own needs and are not acountable for theirs.

 

[bradford_h]

HI Clarissa-
I think Wilhelm misunderstands 47.4. What's slowing him down in his gilded chariot is himself - his state of mind has him driving with the brakes on instead of letting go, fighting his own momentum. Most of 47 is caricature of depressive states seeking rest or respite but refusing to lighten up.

 

[clarissa]

"What's slowing him down in his gilded chariot is himself - his state of mind has him driving with the brakes on instead of letting go, fighting his own momentum"

OK...that helps and even seems to tie in with some other lines I've received. As you probably already read...I also received 60.6 when I asked what I'm waiting for...and it sure sounds like a situation similar to what you're saying about 47.4. Oh, and I also received 52.3 once regarding this person....which again, sounds very similar...to me anyway. All seem to show someone refusing to go with the flow.