Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
But you are still basically engaged in a pattern-matching game, not in divination.
divination is something that happens quite independently of experience. You create a clear, clean inner space where you can bring together person, question and oracle - a unique meeting - and you watch/sense the connections as they arise. Then experience comes in, to enrich your awareness.
if divination is independent from experience why is it that more experienced readers are more likely to give us more reliable information on our readings?
You create a clear, clean inner space where you can bring together person, question and oracle - a unique meeting - and you watch/sense the connections as they arise. Then experience comes in, to enrich your awareness.
hmm, I don't mean to sound oppositional with the above, it's just that the points quoted show a very different side of using the Yi, one I have not thought of at all or know, so if I'm going at things wrongly I'd rather be told than not think of them . . Maybe things like that are already clear to others so bear with me . .
:bows:
I've been thinking about this post ever since you posted it Hilary
Yes, of course you're right, and I didn't write that bit particularly well. (Heh... well, at least I'm writing blog posts - now you want them to make sense as well?) I suppose there are just layers of this, and sometimes recognising a pattern can be an alternative to going further into the reading. 'Oh, I know this one already.' Only - yes - going further in is also a matter of perceiving patterns.and I'm having some trouble here (well, I guess, what's new?!)
...
isn't catching the bird of Yi's answer a matter of contextualizing the energy patterns of the hexagrams/lines received? how else can we read the answer if not by trying to see how the pattern of the answer fits the situation? and how is this different from a certain kind of 'pattern-matching game'?
Mine, too.obviously this whole process is not about one-size-fits-it-all and it would be a bit dump to think that every time a line comes up it involves a copy-paste interpretation from a previous experience with it (as much as it is rude to assume that obvious similarities correspond always with the same single truth). But up to now my understanding of any given line was that they are a kind of shape-shifters, fitting the most diverse situations but doing so due to the fact of having a solid core, a stable pattern of interrelating energies that manifests in one of its forms within the given situation
Not sure. I suppose I can accept the 'more likely' part - I think I've got 'more likely' to be reliable over the years. But then again, I'm not the only one to have had the experience of watching someone encounter the Yijing for the first time, and see clearly things that were invisible to me.and then . . if divination is independent from experience why is it that more experienced readers are more likely to give us more reliable information on our readings?
:bows:
:bows:It's not that experience isn't important but that before past reading experience and its memories kick in, to keep an open and clear mind, and practice astute listening/hearing skills. Then, experience can be employed. But even then I try remain open and not just knee jerk based on readings past. Intelligence requires more than a good memory.
Hm? No, not particularly. I most often see these things come up in interpreting for others, but that could just be because most of the interpretations I see are of other people's readings.I'm glad you articulated those thoughts in your longer post, there were things in Hilarys post, that like you I couldn't quite put my finger on but somehow didn't quite hold for me
But I think Hilary was talking about divining for others, ...as i never divine for others I think what happens in my divining experience for myself is not a thing with instructions.
I even wonder about the word 'divining' and how its used. Is it such a seperate activity from the rest of our mental life especially when as Neegula was discussing we 'divine' all the time from things in our outer world ? We don't need to make compartments of our minds and put experience in one box and a 'clean clear space' in another box in order to divine from the patterns of clouds or words of strangers.
...
Its a nice idea that we can tidy it away to have a 'clear space' and i guess its good to try to make it clear of preconceptions as much as possible in any consultation (?), but i don't think it will ever be truly blank/empty slate. With my own readings I often begin with an idea of the answer is about but then let it 'drop' as if i were letting go of a rope.., so my experience is not of making a clean space but of holding an answer initially in the net my previous experience then letting the answer drop beneath that level, letting the net drop into unknown more open waters.....pull the net up later and theres a different understanding..a different fish than the one i thought i had earlier
Someone should write an article on the benefits of experience.
Someone should write an article on the benefits of experience. There's the general facility with moving round the imagery and the parts of a reading, having some ideas on how they tend to fit together. There are all the assumptions that get unlearned. And there's the chance to get closer to that core of a line you were talking about, the underlying dynamic of the thing - while I suppose the danger is just in thinking you've reached the core when you haven't.
Trojan:
I'm glad you articulated those thoughts in your longer post, there were things in Hilarys post, that like you I couldn't quite put my finger on but somehow didn't quite hold for me
Its a nice idea that we can tidy it away to have a 'clear space' and i guess its good to try to make it clear of preconceptions as much as possible in any consultation (?), but i don't think it will ever be truly blank/empty slate. With my own readings I often begin with an idea of the answer is about but then let it 'drop' as if i were letting go of a rope.., so my experience is not of making a clean space but of holding an answer initially in the net my previous experience then letting the answer drop beneath that level, letting the net drop into unknown more open waters.....pull the net up later and theres a different understanding..a different fish than the one i thought i had earlier
But experience, if not kept in a fertile environment, will do just the opposite. It will become rigid and brittle and absolutely sure of itself. It will think it has already arrived, and the mind closes. The only thing which keep things fertile is the continual feeding and recirculation of resources. Yijing provides a means to keep things circulating, and a way to observe creative order, as well as anomalies, of everything around us and in us.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).