Changing Lines

[soshin]

Yes, Jesed, your "commentarie" is as useful as always, thank you. I am just wondering, you did that on your own? It strikes me how close you are to Wang Bi in Lynn's translation as for the line-relationships. Truly brilliant.

Thank you,

Soshin

 

[lightofdarkness]

Two forms of dichotomy, both representable of yin/yang.

Form one deals with difference from sameness and is more 'yin/yin' or 'yang/yang' oriented. E.g. hex 02 vs hex 23 - the five lines are same, the top line is different and here we see the unconditional nature of devotion vs the conditional. Note how movement from 02 to 23 is a movement to a particular and so more differentiating condition - and so requires more energy as we move from a potential to an actual.

The other dichotomy is asymetric, e.g. 01 vs 02. Here we are after sameness across difference and the sameness is 'purity', one expresses it as an actual (01) the other as a potential (02). We see this pairing in the traditional sequence (in the binary they are opposed and reflect the logic of relationships of all hexagrams of opposite structure)

Symmetric dichotomies give us Gaussian distributions (bell curve)

Assymmetric dichotomies give us spectrums/power laws etc and yin/yang can map both reflecting the 'dual encoding' of differentiating/integrating in our nature.


There is also the suggestion that there are no 'changing lines' - the original comments where on taking the hexagrams deeper, into single line comments that someone then introduced 'changing lines' - the fact is that the so-called changing lines are dodecagrams COMPRESSED into 6-line representations (and so 4096 dodecagrams, 64 packed into one hexagram through the use of 'changing lines')....

The 'traditional' I Ching is a product of our brains, common across the species, but operating in the LOCAL context of ancient China. The 'universal' I Ching is a lot more than that where we are dealing with what is 'behind' the traditional where we can now 'transcend' the traditional perspectives.

 

[jesed]

Hi Soshin

"I am just wondering, you did that on your own?"

I had and I hadn't

The internal Laws of I Ching have been described several years ago, and been developed by several Sages and Saints. So I hadn't "did that" on my own. I did nothing "new" (as much there is always the temptation of arrogancy, like six line of heaven told)

The internal Laws of I Ching must to be lived by the student, not only "knowed". This is a personal work. Implies not only repeat what Tradition had said, but confirmed that in reality. So, yes I had "did that" on my own.

Of course, there is a question: Can I say I had achieve the goal of living internal Laws of I Ching? No, I wouldn't dare to say that

Even more, the Great question: is there anything like "my own"?

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

ps

About your reading... you are trying to dominate the internal Laws of I ching (9), but what you need is to internalized them (61).

The consecuence of trying to dominate them BY FORCE (intelectual/academic effort, "Too much Wang Bi/Lynn lately" as you say ):Internal Laws of I ching will be like a broken wagon for you.

 

[jte]

Hi, Jesed -

Thanks for posting that! Hopefully I'll be able to get a translation of the book that's in Spanish somewhere.

- Jeff

 

[cal val]

Jesed...

Love your last post. Amazing actually. Because I've said the same thing many times. English is my first language and apparently not yours, yet it's so much easier to understand when you say it.

Love,

Val

 

[soshin]

Hi, Val,

nice to see you again!

"Because I've said the same things many times"

But not to me!

 

[soshin]

Soshin says:
(...looking out from between staples of books...):

Hi, Jesed,

it was not in the context of a divination that I got those hexagrams, and the hexagrams were not properly chosen by chance. So I would not go so far as to say that there would be a message especially to me here in the "answer" of the Yi. This was done for purely recreational purposes... ;-)

But, on the other hand, your post strikes a certain cord... (grin!)

Namaste,

Soshin

 

[cal val]

No Soshin...

I don't believe I've said that to you either. Would you like to me to? *wink* *grin*

Great to see you again too! I didn't realize how much I've missed you until you rematerialized!

Love,

Val

 

[soshin]

Yes, Val, please say it to me, as often as you want. You are doing it in a most charming way. And it's good to hear it, anyway!

Thank you so much for your warm welcome. I truly can need it.

Warm

, crossing the seven seas,

Soshin

 

[soshin]

For you that is nothing special, given your working relationship with the oracle, but I will tell this story nonetheless.

You saw what happened above.

Since that moment whe I wrote the above statementI was really courious if the Yi would have really "meant" me, as Jesed so wonderfully suggested.

I asked it: "Did that one really mean me?" I got an answer which pointed me to a very good young friend of me, who becomes gradually aware that he is developing an addiction, in that case to alcohol.

I leant back, as the suggested way the Yi told me to deal with that need of my friend for help was the I already had chosen to go, feelging my bacon saved... And I were looking forward to implement it at the next meeting with him.

And, being no stranger to this issue myself (in my case painkillers, not alcohol), I couriously asked: "How are we both related to each other regarding that problem of him?"

And I got 9,3 to 61.

This one seriously struck me.

As Kevin said recently in another similar case: "I wish the Yi would not doing such things..."

Warmly,

Soshin

 

[cal val]

Hi Soshin...

I don't mean to complicate things, but... after reading your last post...

9.3 from The Portable Dragon

<blockquote>Like men with sore eyes: they find the light painful, while the darkness, which permits them to see nothing, is restful and agreeable.

DIO CHRYSOSTOM, GREEK (40 - 120).</blockquote>Love,

Val

 

[jesed]

Hi Jeff

Sorry, but I doubt you can find a translation; because is a personal edition, not in stores.
Every book had been made by hand; every book has in his front page it's number and personal signature of Master Andre?. (so, master Andre? knows who is the owner of each single book). And he hadn't do any translation.
I mean: this book is not a comercial book, is a work-book you can only get by a personal relationship with Master Andre?.

But... I'm wondering.... maybe someone can be interesting in working with master Andre? on the English translation?

(Of course, this idea would have to be authorized by Great Masters)

Anyway, if you are interesting in learning this traditional teachings, I can give you the e-mail of master Andre? (I guess he speaks English)

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

Hi Soshin

Just in case it could be useful.

This is how I arrive to the idea I posted to you.

If I understood well, after you read Kevin's post, you pick-up randomly a line from an hexagram, to try Kevin's ideas.

So, even if you didn't do any ritual of divination, even if you did no "casting", you was in contact with the reality behind Yi Jing.

And what was in your attention? Inner Laws of Yi Jing (how it works)
______________________________
Now, if Yi Jing was actually pointing to your friend's adiction (and it is possible beacuse Yi Jing again give you 9.3),.. oh, then HE is line 3 and YOU are line 4 of 9.

Ther are strong advices for him and for you in that case. You need to act like King Wen whe he was cautive; doing with a truthful heart and you could achieve the danger go away from your friend
_________________________________________
There are much more about this reading, deeper.

Your reading has a Macrocosmical level and a Microcosmical level. This is why speaks both about your aproach to Inner Laws of Yi Jing (Macrocosmical level) and your friend Addiction (microcosmical level).

Macrocosmical level always influence microcosmical level. It means: the way you aproach to Inner Laws of Yi Jing CAN INFLUENCE the way you are related to your friend's situation

I can't explain it all right now and right here. I can only say: meditate, pray, have Faith...internalized the Inner Laws of Yi Jing... because you can do so much for your friend.

My best wishes for you and your friend

 

[jesed]

Hi Val

You are right. I know just a poor English.

So, I cann't understand well every post; and frecuently I can express myself the way I would like.

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

Oh... I wanted to write: "I CAN NOT express myself the way I would like. " An this is a great example of that, jajaja

 

[soshin]

Dear Jesed,

I am overwhelmed and feel deeply grateful for your work and your insights.

They do mean a lot to me. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. You are very kind to do this to this ol' frog... ;-) He will not forget.

Warmly,

Soshin

 

[void]

Jesed I have noticed that even though English is not your first language and you sometimes make mistakes in spelling and grammar, somehow you really do manage to express yourself in a very eloquent and charming way. You are able to convey quite subtle shades of meaning where us English speakers fail. I often wonder how you do this - I think you must have a special gift - I really like the way you write.

 

[jesed]

Hi Void

"You are able to convey quite subtle shades of meaning"

mmm I do and I do not take credit for that.
I have excelent teachers. I honor them

By the way, my actual teacher says that I Ching is SCIENCE, so the meanings don't depend of subjective interpretation... I think otherwise: we need balance between literal and "subjective" interpretation.

"I often wonder how you do this - I think you must have a special gift"

Oh, we are going deeper... this is a fine question (not about me, but everyone using Yi Jing)... this deserves a new Thread:

what is the Mandate for my life? Which is my essence? what Way is better according with my nature? how I can develope what I meant to be? how can I avoid spoil my gifts?.... and how Yi Ching can help me to answer all those questions?

Those are GREAT questions to ask, don't you think?

Bes wishes