Clarity,
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Thanks! I find the video interesting because I never really cared about trigrams before. About the moving lines approach, can I be safe in concluding that there are many different ways to approach them and not necessarily as a bottom-up linear story? I hope so, otherwise I'd have to reconsider answering a lot of guesses I've made and I'll be disappointed.
Harmen Mesker has made a video * about moving lines:
Yes, absolutely. Lines can tell a story, or they can be alternatives, or they can work together to paint a picture of different layers of a situation. Here's a blog post I wrote about this a while back. It may go into more detail than you want at the moment, but hopefully it'll be reassuring.Thanks! I find the video interesting because I never really cared about trigrams before. About the moving lines approach, can I be safe in concluding that there are many different ways to approach them and not necessarily as a bottom-up linear story? I hope so, otherwise I'd have to reconsider answering a lot of guesses I've made and I'll be disappointed.
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I think hex. 63 shows how to see the lower and upper trigrams. Partly because all of the lines have reached their proper places ie yang lines on yang places and yin lines on yin places.
But besides this imagination, my personal approach is more what is coming and what is going ie from the time perspective that the upper trigram leaves and the lower trigram come -
Yup. It's lovely. The heart of it for me is the main idea about how the relating *trigram* holds the best approach to dealing with the imbalance in the primary trigram with the changing line(s). It's brilliant. You just need robust associations with the trigram meanings, and he does that really well, I think.A thing I like about Harmen's representations or lectures is that even newbies like me got a chance to get a glimpse of an understanding very nicely - sometimes with humour - and simple to follow.
Harmen is really exceptionally good with trigram associations. He does whole, fluent readings with them that are quite something. I would be wary of the idea that a changing line always necessarily means an imbalance, however. Some do, some don't. It depends what they say.The heart of it for me is the main idea about how the relating *trigram* holds the best approach to dealing with the imbalance in the primary trigram with the changing line(s). It's brilliant. You just need robust associations with the trigram meanings, and he does that really well, I think.
So, not every changing line means an imbalance? And yet every changing line means a change to its opposite. You've talked about how multiple changing lines can be read as a story or as layers/dimensions of a situation. But what's your take on the changing line itself? If it's ready to change, how many reasons for that could there be? I'll start, and you add or change:I would be wary of the idea that a changing line always necessarily means an imbalance, however. Some do, some don't. It depends what they say.
Not much, I think - not in practice. There are lots of things it's useful to think about when you're considering a line, and that doesn't seem to be one of them does it?...but since we do call them old yin and yang, does the old/young concept mean much in actual readings?
So why not changing lines? Connection and points of difference could well still be two of the outcomes that a changing line brings to the party.
- The changing line is energised because it's the moment of connection between two hexagrams, where their relationship happens
- The changing line 'lights up' because this is the point of difference between the two hexagrams, where current flows
As Liselle says we do already call them old yin and old yang. The concept that has already been brought to the changing line therefore is one of decay. Things go into decline and decay without oldness. I feel it in my arthritic joints every day and they are not yet 70 years old....but since we do call them old yin and yang, does the old/young concept mean much in actual readings?
It wouldn't have to, I suppose. It could be called old without "oldness" being important to the answer, per se...don't know; haven't ever thought about it.
With entropy at the reins, whether a dark line or a light line they both follow the same trajectory. The light does not become energised and the dark does not die. Passivity and activity just become dog-eared and worn out; each in their own way and in their own right. Both reach a point of maximum disorder where just like neutrons, protons, and electrons that reach this place of maximum decomposition, they become something else. In a binary system at this point of maximum decomposition (and holding fast to the idea that energy cannot be destroyed) the only option for light is to become dark and for dark to become light and up steps young yang and young yin.* The changing line is energized to the point where it flips polarity - 'enantiodromia'
* The changing line is 'old' and it's time for it to 'die'
I like how you combine relationship and current in the two ideas - it makes it capable of being personal, I think.
- The changing line is energised because it's the moment of connection between two hexagrams, where their relationship happens
- The changing line 'lights up' because this is the point of difference between the two hexagrams, where current flows
I would have thought the only meaning it had wasn't the nature of the line itself but the meaning ascribed to it in the text, and how the relating hexagram affected that meaning. Which, if you continue to call them old yang and old yin (I do sometimes), means we pay attention to, listen to, our elders....but since we do call them old yin and yang, does the old/young concept mean much in actual readings?
I'm not sure I quite buy this. The universe as a whole is entropic, but our small corner of it is full of life, which goes in the opposite direction and creates order. And goodness knows the Yi, with its connections and relationships and complexities, is a good expression of that.However, rather than changing because the line has become energised or 'lights up' would it not be more fitting for Yi to fit naturally into the rhythm of the Universe and dance to the tune of decay too.
I don't think I understand... every moving line doesn't mean listen to elders, does it? Obviously we should listen / pay attention to moving lines since that's how the I Ching works. And saying Yi is like a wise elder seems right. I've probably missed the point here.I would have thought the only meaning it had wasn't the nature of the line itself but the meaning ascribed to it in the text, and how the relating hexagram affected that meaning. Which, if you continue to call them old yang and old yin (I do sometimes), means we pay attention to, listen to, our elders.
I think if we're going to find a way to describe what happens when a line moves (any line, all lines. ), we need something that feels completely neutral.
I like Hilary's idea to try finding something neutral.
I'd see it differently. Yes, our small corner is full of life and it is life that creates the illusion of order.I'm not sure I quite buy this. The universe as a whole is entropic, but our small corner of it is full of life, which goes in the opposite direction and creates order. And goodness knows the Yi, with its connections and relationships and complexities, is a good expression of that.
In practice, though, I'm not sure how helpful any of this is, because when we use words like 'decay' or 'imbalance', we tend to add a value judgement or emotional colour to them. An imbalance is something wrong that needs correction. Decay is something inevitable and probably sad. But obviously not every line is saying that something is wrong or inevitable or sad. And maybe 'energised' and 'lights up' have the opposite problem, of adding too many positive associations. I think if we're going to find a way to describe what happens when a line moves (any line, all lines. ), we need something that feels completely neutral.
I'm not suggesting that the name of the book is changed. I don't know where you got that idea from. Similarly I'm not suggesting that they are called anything other than 'changing lines'. I can't image a reason why I would want to do that.Don't we already have something neutral, they are what they are, 'changing lines', 'change lines', that's what we call them. Afterall this is the 'Book of Change' it's not the 'Book of Changing Towards Entropy' nor 'The Book of Everything is Just Getting Better'....it just says 'change'. Change is change. From yin to yang from yang to yin, from light to dark from hot to cold etc etc
As soon as people start trying to pin down/label what is happening with lines beyond changing they just get trapped in limiting language like 'imbalance' which has so many negative connotations.
Bizarre. I haven't said anyone said to change the name of the book..no idea where you got that idea from !I'm not suggesting that the name of the book is changed. I don't know where you got that idea from.
Don't we already have something neutral, they are what they are, 'changing lines', 'change lines', that's what we call them. Afterall this is the 'Book of Change' it's not the 'Book of Changing Towards Entropy' nor 'The Book of Everything is Just Getting Better'....it just says 'change'. Change is change. From yin to yang from yang to yin, from light to dark from hot to cold etc etc
I was just playing with the meanings of 'old line' and 'elder'. All the same, it's interesting to me that in just about every culture but our own, elders are given respect and attention by younger ones (who are themselves in the process of becoming more experienced, wiser, and elder). Hence the joke about changing lines meriting our special attention because they're 'old'I don't think I understand... every moving line doesn't mean listen to elders, does it? Obviously we should listen / pay attention to moving lines since that's how the I Ching works. And saying Yi is like a wise elder seems right. I've probably missed the point here.
I don't call them old yang/yin myself, but I'm familiar with the terms and the black and white diagram (this one).
Also - not sure about this but I think I remember reading it somewhere - do the hexagrams pre-date the yin/yang concept?
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).