Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
heylise said:These are the things which are impossible to know when one is not born in the East.
I'd love to spend some time in China and find out myself, but since that is not possible... And I guess 'some' time would be way too short anyway.
LiSe
fyreflye said:Terms like "shame" and "humiliation" in Asian cultures refer to one's feelings about censure, deserved or not, by others - by friends, family, peer group. "Guilt" in Western cultures refers to the feeling that one has somehow done something dishonorable or hurtful. The junzi may have done the right thing by his or her code and in accordance with the Mandate of Heaven and thus have no reason to feel guilt or any reason to be blamed but the social code of others may cause temporary feelings of shame. In such a case your original translation is not problematic.
-fyreflye
bradford said:Hi Dobro-
Lin doesn't refer to all kinds of what we call shame.
It doesn't apply to getting caught stealing,
or getting caught doing that thing to your goat.
It's more like embarassment at being inadequate, at not being up
to a task, at being handicapped, at being impotent, at poor status
or level of accomplishments.
Lin isn't necessarily your fault, and not at all if you really tried.
So, loosely, there's no shame in having tried
dobro said:So, not so much painful emotion at having wrongdoing come to light as painful emotion at having inadequacy come to light?
lightofreason said:Shame exercies an essential function; without shame and the restraint it imposes, even the most rudimentary form of civilization would be unthinkable.
soulreaver said:I agree with you Chris, the nazis used the very same techniques in their bid. Shaving heads and what not.
John
lightofreason said:What do you think would be a shameful act in a troop of chimps as compared to a troop of bonobos?
soulreaver said:Throwing poop?
John
lightofreason said:not for chimps - that is normal for them.
lightofreason said:What do you think would be a shameful act in a troop of chimps as compared to a troop of bonobos?
soulreaver said:So what's the answer?
soulreaver said:Don't forget cannibalism.
bradford said:It's more like embarassment at being inadequate
dobro said:Hi Bradford - Okay, I've wrangled this and decided that this is the way to go with it - I'm grateful for your input. The only thing I have to do now is decide on a new term for xiu1 in 12.3 and 32.3, cuz I've been translating it as 'embarrassment'. It'll be an easy fix, I think. Thanks for the help.
soulreaver said:Don't forget cannibalism.
(Bonobos are a species of chimpanzee apparently.)
bradford said:Chimps are known to practice cannibalism, but I don't think bonobos are. Not enough hormones left to rage that way.
bradford said:Depending on the chimp troop it could be all three homosexuality, incest and pedophilia.
Bonobos are true practitioners of free love a couple dozen times a day.
We knew this about Luis. He's a little monkey too. Oooo Oooo
bradford said:That's maybe closer to shame as I see it. I see Xiu1 as failure due to defects of character, disgrace, unworthiness, etc., something that better person would not have to go through.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).