hexagram 38.3 > 14 Am I losing my mind?

[pizzabec]

It probably just my morbid curiosity, but I looked through your earlier posts and I just have have to ask:

As above, what is '5D' and do you think I have it?

When Covid began, I called it a biological weapon: from the point of view of nature, all harmful viruses and bacteria are 'weapons' - ebola, smallpox, polio, AIDS, the flu ..... But on a human scale, this implies someone created a weapon and released it for a specific reason. Whom do you think did this, and why?

Behind the scenes they were building "quarantine camps": and you know this for a fact, and you can provide me directions to where these camps are located? I'd like to visit one and see for myself.

I saw the segregation and discrimination: we've been having segregation and discrimination for a few hundred thousand years, and 400 or so years on this continent, ever since us white folk got here. In Canada you sent First Nations children off to boarding schools and did not allow native peoples their language, religion or culture. Here in the US we made black people slaves, and then we supposedly 'freed' them, but we continued to segregate and discriminate against them - which is what BLM is all about. So, it doesn't take a great vision to see segregation and discrimination - it's not rocket science.

I see ... the removal of liberties etc: the US and Canada have been humming along pretty much as usual for a few hundred years, and we've had the same struggles and arguments over our 'rights' and our 'liberties' for just as long. And if enough of us get vaccinated so we can end COVID, we'll all go back to our same struggles as before - and no one will have to issue special passports or erect special camps.

But now you're saying the Canadian government wants to all of a sudden 'remove' your liberties. Why? For what purpose?

If 'they' (whomever the hell 'they' are) remove too many of your liberties, you won't be able to get coffee and donuts at Tim Hortons. And if they do the same here, who is going to buy all the crap from China that's sitting on ships, that they can't unload fast enough? I don't think our governments want that, and why would China want to cut into their customer base? They want us to be free to buy more crap, not less.

So, who gains anything by removing your 'liberties'? And why would they do this?

(There is a small, isolated inlet near where I live - Holmes Harbor - and for months now there have been 2-3 ships at a time anchored there, many of them awaiting getting into the Port of Vancouver, BC (Canada), so you too can be free to buy crap from China and other places.)

I see the schism of society: I've seen that all of my life, but at least here in the US, it has gotten much deeper and wider thanks to our former president and those who want to re-install him to power.

*** So, since you have a 5D, more inclusive vision, I hope you can enlighten me about all these things that you are seeing - and that I've asked about here.

Best, D.

First you insult me and then you ask questions.
Soooooo you can shove it.
Nothing and no one can enlighten you.
Only you can, and by the looks of what you say, you are far from that point.

 

[dfreed]

First you insult me and then you ask questions.

I insulted you? Where? In the questions i asked you? Wherever I did, i apologize.

But i'm still hoping you'll tell us what 5D is and if I too have 5D?

I ask because I've heard the term before, but no one has ever been able to explain what it means, even those who have - or are - 5D. Consider these two question as being an olive branch.

PS - does your life coach have a website or anything? Just like 5D, I've heard of life coaching before, but I would like to know more, especially since you speak so highly of her.

 

[IrfanK]

But in this instance pizza did ask if she lost her mind though whether that was a rhetorical question, a real question, ie she thinks she's mad, or just a way to reveal her ideas about it all being a political plot I don't know. All I'm saying is if the question is actually asking if she lost her mind then it may not be surprising if she gets opinions about that. I really don't think Yi can confirm that either way for her or anyone else, as you say that would be the job of a psychiatrist.

Well, fair point. But if we had a querent asking if their reading suggested they had cancer, I think the right answer would be to tell them to consult a doctor rather that to ask here on the forum. This is the same kind of thing. If someone really did believe this querent had psychiatric issues, I don't think telling them to start trying to think logically and shake it off is going to work. So why say it?

 

[dfreed]

if we had a querent asking if ... they had cancer, I think the right answer would be to tell them to consult a doctor rather that to ask .... This is the same kind of thing. If someone really did believe this querent had psychiatric issues, I don't think telling them to start trying to think logically and shake it off is going to work. So why say it?

I'm not sure if pizzabec 'asked' anything really. I took it as a question at first - am I losing my mind? - but from their response, it seems to me they only want agreement (i.e. 'pizzabec's words are awesome'), and not necessarily advice nor interpretation. And if they don't want advice or any interpretations they don't like, why post here to begin with?

As I said, I thought they asked about losing their mind, and I offered my interpretation; I am not responsible, if they like or don't like what I say, or if someone believes me or not, or agrees with me or not.

And ... If we're using your analogy, shouldn't you be telling pizzabec to go see a psychiatrist, instead of posing their question here on this forum?

 

[fanoozus]

I insulted you? Where? In the questions i asked you? Wherever I did, i apologize.

But i'm still hoping you'll tell us what 5D is and if I too have 5D?

I ask because I've heard the term before, but no one has ever been able to explain what it means, even those who have - or are - 5D. Consider these two question as being an olive branch.

PS - does your life coach have a website or anything? Just like 5D, I've heard of life coaching before, but I would like to know more, especially since you speak so highly of her.

on a separate note and not to get in the fray...

there is an unfortunate thing that happened, I heard about it on NPR, somewhere certain aspects of the new age movement crossed paths with the fear-based neo-nationalist movement here in the states, and many people who are involved in a focus on spiritual development fell prey to the fear-mongering of the alt-right. If one does not know there are two independent trajectories within "5-D" ideology then it is easy to see 5-D as more alt-right fear fodder and a harbinger of "crazy". Physicists recognize there are at least 12 dimensions, so 5-D is no big deal per say.

a quote from a book that sums it up. (and I will add the 4th dimension is actually emotion)
... shares humanity’s journey from their third-dimensional beginnings to the 4th dimensional, a mindset to the ultimate state of fifth-dimensional consciousness. This is the journey from a world of duality to a state of oneness.

It is what all the sages and esoteric teachings teach about...a recognition that separation is an illusion
we can experience 5-D when we experience unity, but we can't live there all the time, as we are in 3-D on the earth plane, however, we can spend more time there by choosing peace over fear. Fear is very 3-D, it is fragmentation, unity is 5-d, it is unification, oneness, nirvana, etc. As you can see all # 45 did was fragment and fear, not 5-D at all, but it has created atremendous opportunity to explore persona power and choice around fear or peace. hope this helps somehow...to answer your question, not solve questions about the mental state if others.

 

[Trojina]

Well, fair point. But if we had a querent asking if their reading suggested they had cancer, I think the right answer would be to tell them to consult a doctor rather that to ask here on the forum. This is the same kind of thing. If someone really did believe this querent had psychiatric issues, I don't think telling them to start trying to think logically and shake it off is going to work. So why say it?

I don't see/read/understand pizza's initial post as you do. Look at it below

Certain events have occured and based on those events, I am able to see a certain landscape ahead and I can see beneath certain superficialities of this reality. To me, it is clear as day.
To others, it is not. They have opposing views in the complete opposite direction. So now, I clearly see my landscape, and I clearly see the others' point of view and even see how they view me while I see the landscape ahead. So their point of view is literally making me question my own sanity. What if I have gone crazy? What if I've gone off the deep end? Are they right? Am i just humiliating myself?
So I asked Yi, am I losing my mind

In everyday colloquial english the phrase 'am I losing my mind?' really isn't generally taken as a literal question of 'do I have a diagnosable mental illness?' , it's a kind of exclamation of disbelief. A bit like
'am I seeing things ?'. When someone asks 'am I seeing things ?' they don't mean literally 'am I actually hallucinating?' they are expressing amazement/disbelief they could be seeing such things.


So going back to your point

Well, fair point. But if we had a querent asking if their reading suggested they had cancer, I think the right answer would be to tell them to consult a doctor rather that to ask here on the forum. This is the same kind of thing. If someone really did believe this querent had psychiatric issues, I don't think telling them to start trying to think logically and shake it off is going to work. So why say it?

People do ask if they have cancer and of course they are told to see a Dr but also often at least given some impressions from the reading. But in no way is this thread like that at all IMO. You are assuming pizza does have some mental illness but she is actually hanging out with a life coach by the sound of it who is encouraging/enabling her.

Why say it ? Because it's true and also actual interpretations of the cast were offered

 

[Trojina]

there is an unfortunate thing that happened, I heard about it on NPR, somewhere certain aspects of the new age movement crossed paths with the fear-based neo-nationalist movement here in the states, and many people who are involved in a focus on spiritual development fell prey to the fear-mongering of the alt-right. If one does not know there are two independent trajectories within "5-D" ideology then it is easy to see 5-D as more alt-right fear fodder and a harbinger of "crazy". Physicists recognize there are at least 12 dimensions, so 5-D is no big deal per say.

It's not surprising as much of new age philosophy really does align closely with right wing values such as 'you are responsible for all in your life' which offers no recognition of social conditions and circumstances, it puts all the onus on the individual and so bypasses any need for social change.

So now there's a curious mix/cross over between new age/conspiracy theorists/right/far right.

It is what all the sages and esoteric teachings teach about...a recognition that separation is an illusion
we can experience 5-D when we experience unity, but we can't live there all the time, as we are in 3-D on the earth plane, however, we can spend more time there by choosing peace over fear. Fear is very 3-D, it is fragmentation, unity is 5-d, it is unification, oneness, nirvana, etc. As you can see all # 45 did was fragment and fear, not 5-D at all, but it has created atremendous opportunity to explore persona power and choice around fear or peace. hope this helps somehow...to answer your question, not solve questions about the mental state if others.

That's all a bit of a mish mash isn't it and I do think new age ideas about Ascension/5D and so on actually don't bear much connection to 'unification/oneess/nirvana as described in Eastern religions or any religions come to that. These theories are embedded in the new age which is notoriously undiscriminating about truth.

You say fear is very 3D ? What does that actually mean ? If someone comes at you with a knife there will be fear regardless of what dimension one is imagining one is in. 'Unity is 5D' means nothing to me ? And the problem is these stratifications whereby 5D is a 'better' place to be than 3D again leads to person A thinking they are above person B and I've come to think it's all a bit of an ego trip and not coming from a great place, purporting to be 'spiritual' but not being so at all.

It is what all the sages and esoteric teachings teach about...a recognition that separation is an illusion
we can experience 5-D when we experience unity, but we can't live there all the time, as we are in 3-D on the earth plane, however, we can spend more time there by choosing peace over fear. Fear is very 3-D, it is fragmentation, unity is 5-d, it is unification, oneness, nirvana, etc. As you can see all # 45 did was fragment and fear, not 5-D at all, but it has created atremendous opportunity to explore persona power and choice around fear or peace. hope this helps somehow...to answer your question, not solve questions about the mental state if others.

There's not a lot of use in going about thinking separation is an illusion it just makes one remote from immediate reality. Even if separation is an illusion we still have to live with it. One could say gravity or time is an illusion but it's one we live in so we have to reckon with it as part of our reality.

Not sure what you mean by #45 that normally would mean post 45 but there is no post 45 here yet.

 

[dfreed]

That's all a bit of a mish mash isn't it and I do think new age ideas about Ascension/5D and so on actually don't bear much connection 'unification / oneness / nirvana as described in Eastern religions or any religions come to that.

And yes I meant 5D.

... we can experience 5-D when we experience unity ...

I think that describing all this as a 'mish mash' is a good start, but it goes even further:

* the physicists' description of 10+ dimensions is describing how we might experience the universe beyond our usual 4D (time and space) existence. And these are only descriptions - not actual states of being - and it's only theory.

* the new age (for lack of a better, inclusive term) way of describing the 5th dimension (and beyond) is in terms of emotional, mental or feeling states. Ex. in 3D we experience fear, but in the 5th dimension we 'get beyond' our fears, etc.

I don't see that this is based on actual fact or reality, or it is perhaps confusing these dimensions with spiritual states, when they are not the same thing .... But then again I might only feel this way because I'm stuck in 3D, which brings us to ....

* now we also have the '5D' of the spiritual conspiracy theorist - which I've heard referred to as 'con-spirituality'. Here '5D' denotes a superior way of seeing the world, in the same way that alt-right people claim to have superior news sources, or that they're free thinkers - so they now see or experience reality in '5D', whereas I'm still stuck in my lowly, confused, 3D, fear-filled, CNN / MSNBC diluted way of seeing the universe.

In plain English, they are saying they are better than others simply because they have a different world view.
Or, as we used to say in 3rd grade: ... "my 5D is better than your 3D, and can beat up your 3D any day of the week!"

And this is how the term has been used: ... that I'm just too un-evolved to understand that I'm being manipulated by 'the elites' or I can't see that Trump is actually going to lead 'the great awakening' ... and these are the sorts of things that have been said to me ... along with a 5D person telling me I am a 'communist pedophile'.

And so - getting back to the topic of losing one's mind - because we can understand 5D on soooo many plains of existence, I was hoping pizzabec would tell us what she means when she talks about 5D?

 

[fanoozus]

Trojina, by # 45 I meant the 45th president of the United States. I apologize for any confusion.

It is all a mish-mash because from where I sit a lot of these ideas do collapse into one another and people's abilities to see the connections are limited and conditioned by the behaviors attributed to people who say they subscribe to these ideas rather than a deeper understanding of the ideas themselves and how they are meant to be of service. For example, separation means one doesn't see the planet as a whole system, complete like the body (this is a very western ontology), it is a fragmented way of thinking and it is very very destructive, we are seeing that and it is why other cultures with a more holistic view are crying for us to wake up and see that truth. Quantum physics is unity consciousness for the western mind, it recognizes there is no separation on a sub-atomic level, even if we are perceiving it as such.

All healing begins when you accept that a notion that you have held as true may in fact be untrue. At that moment you may be liberated from a limiting perception, a condition placed on the world that defines the ability to see the world for what it really is. Science is always catching up to "reality", our technologies determine what we can detect not what actually exists.

I understand how someone else might not see what I see, especially if human behavior is mistaken for the concept. The tenets of 5 D could be understood much like Gandhi's "be the change you want to see". It is a call to personal power and responsibility, not a shirking of it. And one should not confuse the arrogance of an individual(s) with the teaching they are trying to embody. Many people on "spiritual" paths lack humility to be certain, but that does not speak to the path it speaks to the person's own development. What Jesus taught had nothing to do with the crusades, what the Quran teaches has nothing to do with the Jihad as it is currently understood, and so on. Once again there are many concepts, with lofty ideals that have been incarnated and distorted...by fear vs openness and then people attack and trash the idea.


The very unfortunate reality at this moment in the US (and globally) is that the polarization that has occurred has left both "sides" absolutely certain the other is bat-shit crazy. I have watched this and I have seen the arrogance all around and fallen prey to it myself at times. This is separation in action. And we can see this energy on all levels, from issues around climate change to disease, social issues, food production everything. There is a huge polarization, a tremendous amount of fear, and many destructive beliefs that will be our end if we don't "transcend" them somehow.

Taking this back to pizzabec and my limited ability to interpret the Yi Ching it seems that this reading is much more about opposing views and the difficulty one faces when one can see the drama of the opposing views and do nothing but observe. That can make one feel "crazy". So I would have to agree with the one poster that gave Pizzabec kudos. Stand your ground internally, let the opposing views oppose and move on. One does not need to feel crazy for what they see, but one can often feel crazy when they see alone. The drama has even played out here in this very conversation whereby it has demonstrated very real parallel realities and ways of seeing the world and an inability to allow those realities to co-exist with equal validity. Not liking something and not agreeing with it does not mean it does not have a real trajectory in time-space and attacking it as a way of shutting it down is not productive, it just grows stronger.

 

[dfreed]

Not liking something and not agreeing with it does not mean it does not have a real trajectory in time-space

Similarly, liking something and agreeing with it (or accepting it) does not mean it is at all real or is helpful, at least not in the 4D, down-to-earth universe I live in.

This touches upon the function of the Yijing (since pizzab says she's interested in learning it):

The Yijing was never meant to always agree with us, and 'accept' our opinions of stuff, or agree with our 'feelings' - especially when we're not seeing clearly, or we're viewing the world in a less than balanced, sane way. It's function is to give us advice and provide direction so we can bring balance to the unbalanced situations we're asking about ....

... or it is meant to address an unbalanced way we might be seeing the world, as in a perhaps skewed '5D view' of things. After all, we know that '5D' has at least a few different meanings, and not all of them are truthful, nor useful. In fact, they may be confusing and harmful, and just accepting or liking these views doesn't make them any less confusing or harmful.

 

[Trojina]

It is all a mish-mash because from where I sit a lot of these ideas do collapse into one another and people's abilities to see the connections are limited and conditioned by the behaviors attributed to people who say they subscribe to these ideas rather than a deeper understanding of the ideas themselves and how they are meant to be of service. For example, separation means one doesn't see the planet as a whole system, complete like the body (this is a very western ontology), it is a fragmented way of thinking and it is very very destructive, we are seeing that and it is why other cultures with a more holistic view are crying for us to wake up and see that truth. Quantum physics is unity consciousness for the western mind, it recognizes there is no separation on a sub-atomic level, even if we are perceiving it as such.

Which other cultures with a more holistic view are crying for us to wake up ? You have an idealised view because often in other cultures they are so poor they hunt elephants for ivory, chop down the forests, kill whales to eat because that's part of their culture so why shouldn't they. I don't know of any other specific culture which is crying out for such a thing. There are many in my culture who are incredibly concerned about and active in environmental change.

And separation is actually the idea that we are separate, not specifically to do with the planet. You know the illusion that we are all separate persons and all that.

All healing begins when you accept that a notion that you have held as true may in fact be untrue. At that moment you may be liberated from a limiting perception, a condition placed on the world that defines the ability to see the world for what it really is. Science is always catching up to "reality", our technologies determine what we can detect not what actually exists.

I'm just wondering what this has to do with conspiracy theories about Covid ? Why are you conflating it all with healing. It's all very well to pontificate but actually these conspiracy theories are rather shitty lies. They are lies. If you are telling me it is healing to accept lies and nonsense then no of course it isn't.

I understand how someone else might not see what I see, especially if human behavior is mistaken for the concept. The tenets of 5 D could be understood much like Gandhi's "be the change you want to see". It is a call to personal power and responsibility, not a shirking of it. And one should not confuse the arrogance of an individual(s) with the teaching they are trying to embody. Many people on "spiritual" paths lack humility to be certain, but that does not speak to the path it speaks to the person's own development. What Jesus taught had nothing to do with the crusades, what the Quran teaches has nothing to do with the Jihad as it is currently understood, and so on. Once again there are many concepts, with lofty ideals that have been incarnated and distorted...by fear vs openness and then people attack and trash the idea.

Yes....I'm not sure any more how this connects with absurd conspiracy theories, perhaps I've had enough of this thread now.

The very unfortunate reality at this moment in the US (and globally) is that the polarization that has occurred has left both "sides" absolutely certain the other is bat-shit crazy. I have watched this and I have seen the arrogance all around and fallen prey to it myself at times. This is separation in action. And we can see this energy on all levels, from issues around climate change to disease, social issues, food production everything. There is a huge polarization, a tremendous amount of fear, and many destructive beliefs that will be our end if we don't "transcend" them somehow.

Well no the far right is actually wrong. Unless you are saying that racism, misogyny and all their values can be washed away in a sea of waffly spirituality. There is good and evil that is a reality we must deal with. It's very nice and fluffy to just talk about how we have to transcend this that and the other but try telling that to women in Afghanistan right now ! What use is that attitude to them ? Do you think it would work if they just approached the Taliban and said 'hey we have to transcend our oppositional consciousness here' ? Do you think that would work ?

Just saying 'we have to transcend' has absolutely no impact on anything at all.

Taking this back to pizzabec and my limited ability to interpret the Yi Ching it seems that this reading is much more about opposing views and the difficulty one faces when one can see the drama of the opposing views and do nothing but observe. That can make one feel "crazy". So I would have to agree with the one poster that gave Pizzabec kudos. Stand your ground internally, let the opposing views oppose and move on. One does not need to feel crazy for what they see, but one can often feel crazy when they see alone. The drama has even played out here in this very conversation whereby it has demonstrated very real parallel realities and ways of seeing the world and an inability to allow those realities to co-exist with equal validity. Not liking something and not agreeing with it does not mean it does not have a real trajectory in time-space and attacking it as a way of shutting it down is not productive, it just grows stronger.

The thing is pizza's views have no basis not even for her. When we ask questions like 'why do you think every government in the world wants lockdown when lockdown harms capitalism?' there is no reply. there can be no reply of course because it's 100% sheer poppycock.

As for giving kudos I'm disappointed in anyone who would offer kudos to someone who is propagating this nonsense,

This idea that all ideas are equal and valid is lazy, not well thought out. You are saying lies don't exist - it's all one big fuzzy cloud and all the evil in the world, liars, child abuse, theft for you it's all 'oppositional consciousness'. Well I hope you enjoy the luxury of this philosophy, it is a luxury because those living in real oppression from their governments can't sit around saying 'ah never mind they will torture me for going to college/speaking out but hey it's all oppositional and it is so healing for me to see their POV.'.



I've not got the patience for this so I'm done with this thread. I wouldn't even want to stay around on a forum where there were people posting such nonsense about lockdown being a plot, it's just too ridiculous. I especially would not want to be any part of a forum where there were no actual opposition to such views there were just people going on about how all viewpoints are equal. Then I'd write the place off as one of those dopey new age forums where there's no sign of cognitive life at all just fluff and unicorns.

There's no need to reply I'm through with this thread, it's had way too much attention and there are other threads going unanswered perhaps.

 

[fanoozus]

Agreed Trojina. I have no desire to continue with this thread either and realize I made a big error involving myself at all, will not do that again!

I would be super excited if someone (you) as you do seem to know a lot about the Yi Ching evaluated my thread where I asked about 22 changing to 40. As I would be excited to see how to interpret this as I am at a loss and did my best but my best yields little at this time.

 

[surnevs]

#31

First you insult me and then you ask questions.
Soooooo you can shove it.
Nothing and no one can enlighten you.
Only you can, and by the looks of what you say, you are far from that point.

Agreed pizzabec,
That's what happened

 

[pizzabec]

Agreed Trojina. I have no desire to continue with this thread either and realize I made a big error involving myself at all, will not do that again!

I would be super excited if someone (you) as you do seem to know a lot about the Yi Ching evaluated my thread where I asked about 22 changing to 40. As I would be excited to see how to interpret this as I am at a loss and did my best but my best yields little at this time.

Thank you for your input. You nailed it quite well on all levels, including on how I feel.

 

[pizzabec]

Taking this back to pizzabec and my limited ability to interpret the Yi Ching it seems that this reading is much more about opposing views and the difficulty one faces when one can see the drama of the opposing views and do nothing but observe. That can make one feel "crazy".

This.

 

[dfreed]

This.

it seems that this reading is much more about opposing views

Pizzabec, in summary:

I believe both you and I see a world out of control, but we clearly have very different ideas and beliefs about why that might be:

​

You have a 5D, apocalyptic vision of government control, COVID as a biological weapon, government (or elite) manipulation into mass psychosis, "quarantine camps", the removal of liberties, and a bunch of other predictions (these are all your own words).​

​

I see something quite different - that believing in this vision you are describing may in fact be what is actually causing this 'schism of society', and its related 'intense suffering' (again, your words).​

One thing I noted previously - and that I find telling - is that I've heard much of your 'vision' and also this idea of '5D' consciousness many, many (many) times before, as told by others on the internet. And this makes me wonder: have you gleaned you less-than-original 'vision' from these other people, who might - in fact - be trying to manipulate you? We just don't know, do we?

But all that aside, all we really have here are competing visions; mine might not be true, but yours surely isn't - at least not yet - because here you are: freely expressing your views without Canadian government control and you are even disagreeing with me, which would never be allowed in the society you are describing!

*****
I mistakenly thought you wanted us to interpret your query: 'Am I losing my mind" - 38.3 > 14. And so I offered my take on this:

To make it more personal (and make it yours), it reads something like this:

​

38.3: "Seeing Pizzabec's (PB's) wagon dragging, her oxen held back; she is branded and her nose is cut off. What has no beginning for PB has no end." ​

My interpretation of the Yi, along with my life experience and my own 'vision' provide sufficient reason to question your 5D vision, and to conclude that perhaps what you are saying or believing is not all that sane (nor real).

Other's offered a different take:

​

38.3: Seeing PB's wagon being dragged (but others); her oxen held back (by someone else); she is branded (but others); and her nose has been cut off (by someone else)! ​

Is this 'vision' or interpretation true? Perhaps, but it feels to me that it is describing a lot of victim-hood on your part, that all these people, governments, rules, viruses are all doing something TO YOU, that you are now a victim of! But perhaps - in reality - it the 'con-spiritualist' (people who mix conspiracy theories with the spirituality) whom are dragging you down, whom have branded you and cut off your nose - that it is they whom are making you a victim? Maybe this is what your vision and the Yi's response are really about! We just don't know.

But again, all we really have here are competing interpretations of what the Yijing is saying.

*****
At some point, I realized that you did not post this to get our interpretation, or to seriously question, 'am I losing my mind?' What you came here for is to get praise and affirmation, to have people say:

​

'pizzabec's words are awesome' or that your 5D vision is awesome, and that you have every right to believe what you believe (which has never been in question) ....​

And your own words confirm this: anyone who agrees with you, you have praised or given 'thumb's up' to; anyone who interpreted your 'vision' differently (like me) you've ignored. or you have said, in your compassionate, '5D' way:

​

"You can shove it. Nothing ... can enlighten you .... and by the looks of what you say, you are far from that point."​

So be it. Unlike you, I did not come here to be praised nor coddled, nor told how 'right' or correct I am; so I am fine with what's been said here, even you saying, 'you can shove it'.

But in the end - because your '5D vision' has not yet come to pass - we don't know what the future holds. I therefore propose a solution for our competing 'visions' of what is happening in the world, and what is wrong with it:

​

*** I suggest that we all bookmark this page, and that on Feb. 20, 2022 (six months from now) we all return here and report in - just what we're experiencing, and what our world is like and why.​

It may be that in 6 months from now, you'll be checking in from your Canadian COVID concentration camp (during the limited hours they allow you internet access, which is highly monitored). And I may be reporting in from my plush 3D home, while I sip fine wine, provided to me by my government overlords - as reward for buying into their 3D lies.

Or perhaps our world will be different than any this, or maybe even about as it is now. We'll just have to see.

Bye for now - see you all in 6 months!

 

[Olga Super Star]

As I said, I thought they asked about losing their mind, and I offered my interpretation; I am not responsible for if they like or don't like what I say, or if someone believes me or not.

To some people your interpretation may sound brutal.

 

[Olga Super Star]

Just to clarify, it is possible to be brutal and insulting even when using "polite" words with insults well hidden. It is much easier to report a letter containing insults clearly shouted out than one with hidden insults. If the moderator is not smart enough he may say there is nothing wrong with what someone wrote. But below words are intentions, and in my opinion you were harsh in what you said as a first reply.

Just writing this not to accuse you (we are people and can all have our bad days) but in defense of pizzabec to tell her that she didn't make insults up.

 

[rosada]

Pizzabec, can you describe your visions and how they come to you? Dfreed seems to me to be saying that your visions are not unbiased impressions coming from a higher perspective but are some how a mish-mash of your own ideas triggered by listening to too many fear mongering politicians. But I don't think that is what you are asking about. I think you are saying you get actual visions - which may or may not align with your own political beliefs - and the visions prove to accurately depict upcoming events - yet the idea that visions of the future are even possible is so often ridiculed that you find yourself wondering if these flashes of insight represent a unique ability or are they a warning there may be something going wrong within you? This is not an unreasonable question. There are many stories of people who have reported having amazing psychic experiences and later found to have had brain tumors and there are stories of people seeing deceased loved ones who gave them accurate messages shortly before they themselves died. . So being concerned that these psychic impressions - no matter whether they are or are not valid - could be the result of something being not quite right in your head seems to me to be a very appropriate question. Whether or not the visions are particularly profound or giving information not otherwise available is not the issue. The question was whether the visions are evidence of some sort of negative mental condition - and from my perspective the I Ching is reassuring you that even though the world may oppose your claim to this ability, verbally cut off your nose and insult you, you can rest assured that you still have your sanity, your 14. Great Possession.
Thanks for sharing! I hope you'll post more about what you are "seeing" over in Open Space.

 

[dfreed]

Just writing this not to accuse you, but in defense of pizzabec to tell her that she didn't make insults up.

You are saying that both pizzabec and I traded insults, but you want to support her by telling her she 'didn't make insults up'. And ... since you're not accusing me of anything, I have nothing to add.

I summarized what I think both our views are in Post 46, above. If you or pizzabec want to comment about that post, I can consider responding.

 

[surnevs]

You are saying that both pizzabec and I traded insults, but you want to support her by telling her she 'didn't make insults up'. And ... since you're not accusing me of anything, I have nothing to add.

I summarized what I think both our views are in Post 46, above. If you or pizzabec want to comment about that post, I can consider responding.

Can You explain this a bit more comprehensive?

 

[Olga Super Star]

You are saying that both pizzabec and I traded insults

No, I said your first post was harsh and we all saw it. So she didn't make anything up. It wasn't anything she imagined or a paranoid reaction she had.

You have responded indeed

 

[surnevs]

No, I said your first post was harsh and we all saw it. So she didn't make anything up. It wasn't anything she imagined or a paranoid reaction she had.

You have responded indeed

Correct. And if we are not allowed to express our experiences with readings like pizzabec actually did on this forum without having to explain what those experiences meant each and every time to some self-appointed Admin* no matter how strange those experiences (and with the I Ching it some times can seem strange) might be, what then would be the point in having a forum like this?

* and yet I'm thinking on dfreed here it could as well be myself or anyone else for that matter.

 

[dfreed]

Can You explain this a bit more comprehensive?

You have responded indeed

Okay, and now you've both commented about me and criticized me. I hope we can move on.

I have summarized what the issue is and what the interpretations are in Post 46, above (and surnevs 'liked' that post). If either of you cares to respond to what I said in that post, or you'd like to interpret pizzabec's query for her, I encourage you to do so.

I assume you also have the "admin's" permission to post here - but if you're unsure, you may want to send them a message to check.

 

[surnevs]

Okay, and now you've both commented about me. I have summarized what the issue and interpretions are in Post 46, above (and surnevs 'liked' that post). If either of you cares to respond to what I said, or you'd like to interpret pizzabec's query, please do so.

What I've been posting here I did fortunately without your permission. And yes I "Liked" your post #46 because You explained yourself instead of leaving.
And You'll probably not find me back in 6 months or maybe You will - what kind of a timeframe....

 

[dfreed]

What I've been posting here I did fortunately without your permission. And yes I "Liked" your post #46 because You explained yourself instead of leaving.

You don't need my permission at all to respond to or interpret pizzabec's query, just as I don't need yours. And I appreciate that you like my explanation.

 

[surnevs]

You don't need my permission at all to respond to or interpret pizzabec's query, just as I don't need yours. And I appreciate that you like my explanation.

If we are not allowed to express our experiences with readings like pizzabec actually did on this forum without having to explain what those experiences meant each and every time to some self-appointed Admin* no matter how strange those experiences (and with the I Ching it some times can seem strange) might be, what then would be the point in having a forum like this?

* and yet I'm thinking on dfreed here it could as well be myself or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Trojina]

If we are not allowed to express our experiences with readings like pizzabec actually did on this forum without having to explain what those experiences meant each and every time to some self-appointed Admin* no matter how strange those experiences (and with the I Ching it some times can seem strange) might be, what then would be the point in having a forum like this?

* and yet I'm thinking on dfreed here it could as well be myself or anyone else for that matter.

If I posted a thread saying

'Hey I have had these amazing visions about electric cars, you know I saw cars that ran not on petrol but electricity and they made little noise so you couldn't hear them coming. And then, get this, I saw cars driving themselves with no driver. I went to my life coach and she said these visions are real and I'm not mad. Of course ordinary people just don't get this and think I am mad. Am I mad ?'

I'd hope in any sane forum someone or other would point out to me

'Trojina there have been electric cars for years now, they aren't so uncommon. There have also been driverless cars for years so I don't think what you are having is a prophetic vision more like a memory of what you saw on the news last week'.

There would be nothing wrong in pointing that out, we are thinking beings not empty headed sponges only concerned with a pleasant wrinkle free exchanges. And that's about a factual thing so it's not very controversial nor offensive.


However in pizza's case we have more than this. We have another factor added in. As has been said several times now I think, these 'covid as conspiracy' theorists have been around since day 1 of Covid and they say things which are exactly the same as this

When Covid began, I called it a biological weapon. I foresaw lockdowns. It scared me but not because of the virus itself. I saw all media as propaganda. Left right all of it. I saw through a veil...before all this began, I had an awakening and began to see things to the point that I freaked people out. Then they opened society up and I told people that the lockdown would happen again, and again...virus has nothing to do with it. It is manipulation into mass psychosis..they thought I was crazy. It happened. Then they announced vaccines. Behind the scenes they were building "quarantine camps". Then I said we will not be able to travel freely. This is a precursor into something much bigger. They will segregate the vaxxed with the unvaxxed...etc...I made a whole bunch of other predictions. Including the vaccine passports because i saw it...I saw the landscape. I saw the segregation and discrimination.
This is one side. The other side is how your everyday people are viewing events and how they are viewing me. It is hard to block these images of how people see me and how they see what is going on. It takes a tremendous amount of effort. So now, because of the way I see how others see me, I am constantly checking my premise to the point of omg...am i going crazy? Is it me who is going through some psychosis? Do I have a brain tumor? And then I asked Yi, am I losing my mind????

I think if I had the will I could could lift this off any one of the conspiracy theorist's publications/websites, even the language is the same.

First of all these theories are lies and fantasies. Lockdowns are for humanitarian reasons obviously and to make out they are for mass control is an insult IMO to those who really do live under serious political oppression. I have some relatives in the Ukraine who last I heard a few months back could not get the vaccine despite being older with health issues. I find it offensive that people from wealthy countries where the vaccine is widely available feel okay about spreading nonsense about vaccines meaning 'segregation and discrimination'. No it's about saving lives.


And also what I find offensive is how Covid measures are being spoken of here in the language of victims of genocide, real victims that is. Notice this

Then they announced vaccines. Behind the scenes they were building "quarantine camps".

I'll tell you what is so offensive about this, it's offensive because the writer is clearly drawing a parallel between this and the Nazi death camps. Look at how it's said 'They were building camps' you know building up the comparison without actually saying it. It's sick quite honestly.

Canada, is not building death camps ffs and drawing parallels between Covid measures and fascism is so sickening it shouldn't have a platform. However if it has to have one here then I do hope and pray it is questioned and argued with and exposed for what it is. This is not something to say this about;

'ah lahdedah how interesting you think Covid measures are like the beginnings of rounding Jews up for the death camps, wow what splendid visions I hope you share more'


And to those that are saying that here do wake up and smell the coffee ! There are still people around who remember death camps, they probably don't much resemble quarantine measures in modern day Canada ffs.



My point is there's several things happening here.

1. If these are claimed as visions they are pretty widespread on the internet and have been from day 1 of the pandemic.

2. Lockdown as a plot is a lie. Comparing it to fascist death camps is sick. Comparing it to extreme political oppression is sick. Someone living in Canada having these kinds of fantasies reminds me of young teenagers from really comfortable homes who go around posturing as desperados and rebels and then they go home for tea. But they're kids and they're harmless.

3. Naturally anyone with a brain cell surely is going to be asking someone making these claims fairly basic questions and these have been asked but no answer at all has come from pizza suggesting she hasn't thought much about this..

Questions such as 'why do you think governments would have a vested interest in lockdown when it does not serve the economy of the countries?'

And 'how is it you see every government in the world in complete cahoots on this alleged hoax of lockdown ?'



I don't think it unreasonable to ask pizza questions given all these factors, I'd be worried if there were no questions. There is a point where this might tip into bullying and sometimes when you are the questioner and you get no reply you can't tell when that tipping point is and you may go too far, I guess some of us can recognise that as a pattern, I know I can and I've seen it in others. But if this happens then it is time for the 'moderation' system to operate surely.

In this instance, in this thread I personally think asking questions is fine. Asking questions is fine when the OP is comparing quarantine measures to fascist death camps !

dfreed questioned pizza so did I and I suggest if people have such a big problem with that they report the posts. Instead I'm reading allegations that moderators aren't quite 'smart' enough to know when there's an insult. I don't think pizza has been personally insulted, I think her views have and quite rightly so. She however has told us to 'shove it' and this is despite several actual interpretations offered.


Rather than this thread drag on with stones being catapulted at those questioning pizza just report it and let 'them' do what they want with it. I've already reported the thread yesterday as I think it would be better closed. I can't see that there's much else to say here. Pizza hasn't been here for days, the arguments had died down until people who hadn't even been involved in the thread at all came back regarding moderation issues but without apparently going to the moderators. I lost count of the times I've been told not to discuss behaviour on the thread and report the post so I did report this thread but haven't heard back.

 

[surnevs]

If I posted a thread saying

'Hey I have had these amazing visions about electric cars, you know I saw cars that ran not on petrol but electricity and they made little noise so you couldn't hear them coming. And then, get this, I saw cars driving themselves with no driver. I went to my life coach and she said these visions are real and I'm not mad. Of course ordinary people just don't get this and think I am mad. Am I mad ?'

I'd hope in any sane forum someone or other would point out to me

'Trojina there have been electric cars for years now, they aren't so uncommon. There have also been driverless cars for years so I don't think what you are having is a prophetic vision more like a memory of what you saw on the news last week'.

There would be nothing wrong in pointing that out, we are thinking beings not empty headed sponges only concerned with a pleasant wrinkle free exchanges. And that's about a factual thing so it's not very controversial nor offensive.


However in pizza's case we have more than this. We have another factor added in. As has been said several times now I think, these 'covid as conspiracy' theorists have been around since day 1 of Covid and they say things which are exactly the same as this





I think if I had the will I could could lift this off any one of the conspiracy theorist's publications/websites, even the language is the same.

First of all these theories are lies and fantasies. Lockdowns are for humanitarian reasons obviously and to make out they are for mass control is an insult IMO to those who really do live under serious political oppression. I have some relatives in the Ukraine who last I heard a few months back could not get the vaccine despite being older with health issues. I find it offensive that people from wealthy countries where the vaccine is widely available feel okay about spreading nonsense about vaccines meaning 'segregation and discrimination'. No it's about saving lives.


And also what I find offensive is how Covid measures are being spoken of here in the language of victims of genocide, real victims that is. Notice this

I'll tell you what is so offensive about this, it's offensive because the writer is clearly drawing a parallel between this and the Nazi death camps. Look at how it's said 'They were building camps' you know building up the comparison without actually saying it. It's sick quite honestly.

Canada, is not building death camps ffs and drawing parallels between Covid measures and fascism is so sickening it shouldn't have a platform. However if it has to have one here then I do hope and pray it is questioned and argued with and exposed for what it is. This is not something to say this about;

'ah lahdedah how interesting you think Covid measures are like the beginnings of rounding Jews up for the death camps, wow what splendid visions I hope you share more'


And to those that are saying that here do wake up and smell the coffee ! There are still people around who remember death camps, they probably don't much resemble quarantine measures in modern day Canada ffs.



My point is there's several things happening here.

1. If these are claimed as visions they are pretty widespread on the internet and have been from day 1 of the pandemic.

2. Lockdown as a plot is a lie. Comparing it to fascist death camps is sick. Comparing it to extreme political oppression is sick. Someone living in Canada having these kinds of fantasies reminds me of young teenagers from really comfortable homes who go around posturing as desperados and rebels and then they go home for tea. But they're kids and they're harmless.

3. Naturally anyone with a brain cell surely is going to be asking someone making these claims fairly basic questions and these have been asked but no answer at all has come from pizza suggesting she hasn't thought much about this..

Questions such as 'why do you think governments would have a vested interest in lockdown when it does not serve the economy of the countries?'

And 'how is it you see every government in the world in complete cahoots on this alleged hoax of lockdown ?'



I don't think it unreasonable to ask pizza questions given all these factors, I'd be worried if there were no questions. There is a point where this might tip into bullying and sometimes when you are the questioner and you get no reply you can't tell when that tipping point is and you may go too far, I guess some of us can recognise that as a pattern, I know I can and I've seen it in others. But if this happens then it is time for the 'moderation' system to operate surely.

In this instance, in this thread I personally think asking questions is fine. Asking questions is fine when the OP is comparing quarantine measures to fascist death camps !

dfreed questioned pizza so did I and I suggest if people have such a big problem with that they report the posts. Instead I'm reading allegations that moderators aren't quite 'smart' enough to know when there's an insult. I don't think pizza has been personally insulted, I think her views have and quite rightly so. She however has told us to 'shove it' and this is despite several actual interpretations offered.


Rather than this thread drag on with stones being catapulted at those questioning pizza just report it and let 'them' do what they want with it. I've already reported the thread yesterday as I think it would be better closed. I can't see that there's much else to say here. Pizza hasn't been here for days, the arguments had died down until people who hadn't even been involved in the thread at all came back regarding moderation issues but without apparently going to the moderators. I lost count of the times I've been told not to discuss behaviour on the thread and report the post so I did report this thread but haven't heard back.

It's OK with me. And yes, You are right, I went too far in my attempt to defence pizzabec. dfreed did explain himself and I should have left it by that.
Thank You Trojina.

 

[dfreed]

dfreed did explain himself and I should have left it by that

And you can do more than just 'leave it at that'. You might consider getting rid of the posts where you mention or talk about me. And you can undo the -likes- you made where others attacked me. Actions are better than words. But, that's just my opinion, not orders from the admin.