How to Learn the Yijing Gig?

[martin]

But if we're talking inner transformation, developing 'new organs of perception', getting to and stabilising in new states of mind without going off the rails in the process, then I really, really think you need to be working with someone who's been there before you.

Yes, that is what I was talking about too. Of course I didn't mean to say that everybody needs to run for a guru or something, but if you want that 'transformation', well, I think that only very few people can do it without an experienced guide. Only the Ramanas but they are extremely rare, one in a million? Less?

 

[dobro p]

Yes, it seems he was born to it - just a bit more karma to deal with in order to pop up to the top. And Gotama Buddha, for another example. But then, his mandate was to found a world religion, so he needed a head start and lots of personal initiative (before everything personal was left completely behind). But even Gotama had teachers before he made that final, individual, unguided effort that pushed him through.

 

[dobro p]

Since the Yi is steeped in taoism, is that not where it is leading us?

Isn't it the other way round? Isn't Taoism steeped in the Yi?

As for where it's leading us, I'd say the answer to that question is 'inward and upward'. Which is where any genuine teaching leads us, not just Taoism.

 

[maremaria]

........ What remains after? I wouldn't really call it 'commitment', that sounds a bit heavy, like the Yi would not like it if I did tarot sometimes.
....

Hi Lightangel,
By commitment I didn't meant exclusiveness. That would be scaring and dangerous. I guess Yi wouldn't mind if you use other resourses too

 

[luz]

Maria,

It better not care if I use other resources.. after all, I allow him to talk to you too!

 

[mudpie]

I don't know the Tarot so I can't comment on the differences between it and the I Ching. I'm just getting started with the Yi but I find it to be a source of much wisdom, perhaps plenty for a lifetime.

I'm wondering what the experienced readers out there think of how long it takes to get to know the Yi and become comfortable in using it? I started out by falling in love, became hopelessly confused, was led to buy Hilary's course which cleared up a lot of things, than proceeded to make a fine mess of my new relationship. Now at my 48th query I am calming down and feel the conversation is back on track.

Can some of you more experienced folks indicate how long it took you to start feeling really comfortable with the Yi and maybe some highlights of the relationship? Some perspective like that would surely help me along at this point.

Kind Regards - Kim

I dont know much about the tarot either, but I really cant see the difference between reading "tons" of commentaries on the cards and the "tons" of commentaries on the yijing.

"The Tao" to my way of thinking is not a religion but a term for describing the WAY of Life, the flow of things/energy. You can either be in harmony with it, or seemingly at odds with it. To me Yijing is a guide for achieving harmony with the present moment. I see it as a very simple teacher, who gives very simple ( in essence) advice e.g.: wait, accept, gather , restrain, perservere, engage, and so on and so on. I fell in love with it too, but it was very much like the way I would love a wise old grandmother. she is not going to solve all your problems, or tell your future, but she knows your heart and she knows how life works.

 

[luz]

I very much like the way I would love a wise old grandmother. she is not going to solve all your problems, or tell your future, but she knows your heart and she knows how life works.

Love that, it's exactly how I think it is.

 

[dobro p]

I fell in love with it too, but it was very much like the way I would love a wise old grandmother. she is not going to solve all your problems, or tell your future, but she knows your heart and she knows how life works.

Love that, it's exactly how I think it is.

Fair enough, but if you're lucky enough to have that kind of granny, then you're more likely to accept yourself and find yourself earlier on in life, rather than later when things have got out of tune and the path of pain is bringing you to see the need for adjustments. It's better to have that kind of mirror in your life than not to have it, is what I'm saying.

 

[meng]

Fair enough, but if you're lucky enough to have that kind of granny, then you're more likely to accept yourself and find yourself earlier on in life, rather than later when things have got out of tune and the path of pain is bringing you to see the need for adjustments. It's better to have that kind of mirror in your life than not to have it, is what I'm saying.

I find this so true. I was very lucky to have that kind of granny. And I do see what Listener means, likening Yi to Granny. It is like that for me too. While my parents were all about being the perfect looking family of the 50's, my granny was a racy pre-war French anarchist, always full of mysterious tales, which kept my older brother and I spellbound. It was she who really raised us. Yes, I like that grandmother/Yi connection a lot.

 

[dobro p]

granyi

 

[maremaria]

I see it as a very simple teacher, who gives very simple ( in essence) advice e.g.: wait, accept, gather , restrain, perservere, engage, and so on and so on. I fell in love with it too, but it was very much like the way I would love a wise old grandmother. she is not going to solve all your problems, or tell your future, but she knows your heart and she knows how life works.

Listener, I liked a lot what you said here . Yi-grandmother and Yi-a very simple teacher.
I agree also with Dobro about the importance of that kind of mirror and I 'm "jealous" :bag: for not having such a Grandmother/father as Meng.

In my country, in our casual talks, we use mainly two words for teachers according to their rank. For those who teach till 6th grade teacher and all the rest professors (high-school professor-university professors etc.) . But we use also the word Teacher (no matter where one stands in the rank of education or out of the formal education system ) for some special for us person/leaders/guides.

Once I have listen to a very significant professor with a lots of titles and distinctions here and abroad. He was asked which title makes him fell satisfied for all his effort. He said something like that : When I met old students of mine after many-many years and they call me Teacher. A student of mine once told me, “Teacher, I miss you a lot but at the same time I don’t miss you at all because you are always here”. When I’m given such a title, when I’m called Teacher I think, Hmm, maybe after all, I have done something in my life. I believe, this is the thing that make me keep going and trying harder”.

For me those are the “real” teachers. It has not to do with titles, distinctions, and acquired knowledge but with this special wisdom of one who helps the student to discover his/her own teacher somewhere inside. (grown up ????)

For me . each time I ask a question to Yi , is like pushing the pause button for a while waiting for weather to calm and then act. Like a meeting of all the teachers I have in my life. Gathered all together, talking about the current situations, exchange opinions. They come, they talk, they go and then I have to decide.

 

[martin]

He said something like that : When I met old students of mine after many-many years and they call me Teacher. A student of mine once told me, “Teacher, I miss you a lot but at the same time I don’t miss you at all because you are always here”. When I’m given such a title, when I’m called Teacher I think, Hmm, made after all, I have done something in my life. I believe, this is the thing that make me keep going and trying harder”.

Yes, beautiful. I had similar experiences sometimes. Once at the start of a course a student said "do you know how much we value you?" I was blissed out!
I valued him too and many others. They teached me a lot. I have always loved teaching and what I find most rewarding is when the distinction between teacher and student disappears, when you become friends that both learn and teach.

 

[maremaria]

I valued him too and many others. They teached me a lot. I have always loved teaching and what I find most rewarding is when the distinction between teacher and student disappears, when you become friends that both learn and teach.

I guess it is then, when the real exchange begins.

Now I am curious . What do you teach?

 

[martin]

Math and physics usually, sometimes psychology. But I'm retired now.

 

[maremaria]

Thanks.

 

[mudpie]

For me . each time I ask a question to Yi , is like pushing the pause button for a while waiting for weather to calm and then act. Like a meeting of all the teachers I have in my life. Gathered all together, talking about the current situations, exchange opinions. They come, they talk, they go ......

This would be lovely exploration on a "going thru the gate".....following the voices of those who talk/opine....making all th connections, having the dialogue.....maria, I see you a writer, one who has a rich reservoir of wisdom, a lot of beautiful nuances and rich symbology.

if you were to write on the process of your readings, it could become a lovely project..a lovely tool. sometimes we dont even know the wealth we have to be expressed, until we start to write and it emerges. What you describe above is like a woman who runs with the wolves -and the ancestors; your wild nature emerges.......the woman who knows, instincts sharp. When you divine, you do, In a sense, "howl" and in howling, you find your pack gathering around you, assiting and nurturing.
you are a woman with a LOT to say, and you are capable.

 

[meng]

Because she's probably too timid or modest to post her blog link...

http://horseandmoon.blogspot.com/

 

[maremaria]

:bag:

 

[mudpie]

ah-haaaaaa! lovely! thank you

 

[Sparhawk]

Wow! Nice blog, Maria!

A 'thank you' to Bruce for the pointer.

 

[maremaria]

Now I can breath again……. Listener, thanks you for your warm words. You too Luis for your Kind comments about my blog. And Bruce, thank you…


Maria

 

[luz]

Very nice, Maria

 

[martin]

Love it, Maria.

 

[maremaria]

Ligthangel and Martin , thank you both.

Everybody, you make my day today. Thank you.


Bruce, I put the blame on you for not be as productive as I had planed today… put since you really encourage me to write I won’t be angry with you. Thank you

 

[Tohpol]

"Because she's probably too timid or modest to post her blog link...

http://horseandmoon.blogspot.com/"


Yes, it's a "breath of fresh air blog" as I call them. Keep on writing Maria!

This is the beauty of the net - so much everyone can share, so much communication and inspiration possible - despite all the dross.

(love that sea pic.)

Topal

 

[Tohpol]

Math and physics usually, sometimes psychology. But I'm retired now.

That's an interesting combo.

Are you interested/familiar with non-linear systems and mathematics of complexity and all that sort of thing? I find that fascinating though difficult to get my head around at times.

And what type of psychology did you study?

(this is the stripping Martin hour btw )

Topal

 

[maremaria]

Thank you Topal

 

[martin]

Are you interested/familiar with non-linear systems and mathematics of complexity and all that sort of thing? I find that fascinating though difficult to get my head around at times.

Yeah, it's complicated! Not realIy my thing, my focus was mainly on mathematical logic and analysis. But I know something about chaos theory and computational complexity (which has links with logic: Gödel's incompleteness theorem etc).
If you mean the Wolfram stuff, most of that is still on my loooooooooooooooong to-read list.

And what type of psychology did you study?

I specialized in the psychology of religion.

(this is the stripping Martin hour btw )

Blush!

 

[emc2cme]

Hi, Maria and Candid. I just read your blogs and love them. The imagery is breathtaking and the reflections thought-provoking. Wonderful!

I tried to send a comment at your sites, but couldn't read the Greek on one, and didn't find a place on the second. So please forgive me if I embarrass you by sending such effusive comments without even knowing you.

Take care, and please keep up the wonderful blogs. They're so inspiring

Nancy (aka emc2cme)

 

[meng]

Hi, Nancy.

Thank you for your positive comments. If you would like to respond to Candid's blog, please feel free to use my IM on this site for now. I'd enjoy hearing feedback. I guess I really should include an email address on the blog for this purpose. Will look into that.

Thanks,
Bruce