Is the time right to embark on a (potentially epic) journey?

[little_meditations]

Hello Dear Forum,I have 'cast' on-line and the hexagrams came up 39.5 to 15. So the primary hexagram is 39, Limping. Line 5 is going from yang to yin, giving the secondary hexagram 15, Integrity.A short background, the whole of my adult life has been oriented towards being mobile, learning skills and ideas that I could use to help others as I go. This general vision coalesced into the more concrete path of teaching meditation on the road, and using the internet (which was just coming out as I was entering adulthood) to offer follow-up support for individuals as they continue to develop their meditation practice. I am 38 now and have been studying world medicines for 20 years, practicing qigong for ten years, and meditation for about 5.A month ago I had an offer to finally go on the road! An acquaintance of mine has a 1985 VW Westfalia which he is quite competent in handling and maintaining. Two months ago, he packed up his life in Southern California and struck out on the road.For my part, I have never gathered resources or equity of any kind, other than books about medicine and philosophy. So I have known that either I would need to start gathering money and get my own van/truck, or else find somebody to hop in with - in order to finally get out on the road and do my thing.Two months ago I myself made a move, from Chicago to a smaller college town. The move has been fruitful, and I have been wondering if the time is right for me to travel. The man with the van, will be leaving from the Midwest and heading northeast in about a week. Then eventually circling back and heading to the southwest, back to California for the winter.So when hexagram 39 came up I was immediately struck by the coincidence, of mentioning 'avoid the northeast,' and 'keep to the southwest!' I realize that these are metaphors. But even so it gave me pause and had me think: 'maybe it is best to let him go to the northeast on his own, while I focus on my work in my new home for another month or so .. then when he heads back to the Southwest, I can join.'Does this seem like an apt interpretation? Or should I take it less literally, and focus on seeking out friends on the road, rather than continuing to focus on my own struggles with personal growth? Any ideas welcome!I have tried to post a poll.Answer 1: I should go on the road now, head to the northeast and go from there.Answer 2: I should wait to travel, and head to the southwest when the chance comes.-Mike

 

[moss elk]

The grumpy old man I hope to be one day says, 'please use less words in order to make things clearer, I read the post twice and now I need a nap.'

Was your question, 'Is it the right time to go?' with answer 39.5 (15) ?

If so, I would take that as a No.

What is the purpose of your poll?

 

[rosada]

Agreeing with Moss here. hexagram 39.5, definitely a no go.

 

[little_meditations]

The grumpy old man I hope to be one day says, 'please use less words in order to make things clearer, I read the post twice and now I need a nap.'

I included spaces in the paragraphs when I wrote the post. And then the spaces between paragraphs disappeared. I tried to edit it after I saw, but when I clicked "edit" it didn't work.Yes, the purpose of the poll was whether to travel or not! It did mention to seek out teachers, which could be an indication to go ahead and travel?

 

[moss elk]

It did mention to seek out teachers...

Nope, it didn't.

Did you just move into a new place?
Is all your stuff stacked in giant piles obstructing movement in your place?
I wonder if a friend could come help you deal with That.
If there is a That at all, that is.

 

[little_meditations]

Mr Moss Elk, thank you! I am in the throes of a conundrum. There is much more to the story than what I originally posted .. and as you mentioned, my original post was much too long as it was hahaI did just move in early June, but I am well settled in. And now I am moving again next Tuesday. I move often!Tuesday is also the day that I am scheduled to embark on the journey towards fresh air and friendly horizons. I looked in my I Ching books and the concept that stuck with me most were loyalty, modesty, temperance and retreat .. but the retreating seems to be balanced out by some kind of advancing, but advancing in a very unhasty fashion 'limping'The retreating I am reading as I should visit my mother more? Since I've not yet embarked on the journey, it's hard to know how else to take it.

 

[little_meditations]

Maybe 'retreat' in the sense of make sure to be humble, retreat my ego?Open to all input, very appreciative of thoughts received so far, and planning to follow up and keep this thread updated. (Not sure why when I post the paragraphs breaks all collapse though!)

 

[little_meditations]

I have been delving deeply into this reading, and doing a little bit of research. From what I can gather, the words 'coming' and 'going' are generally accepted in translations, and one or the other appears in most translations for every line of Hexagram 39 except for line 2. But there seems to be another way to read it, that is not at all correlated with the image of physical movement through space the way that 'coming' and 'going' are. This is as 'concentration' and 'dispersion.' Also in my very limited experience with I Ching it seems to me that the gods (or whomever) speak through the I Ching in their own way. They give signs about what what we need to hear (and/or what they want us to hear) - they actually do not care what question we ask, or what question we think we need answered. So in my case, even though I asked a very specific 'question,' the I Ching gave me a much more global 'answer.' Does anybody have input on either (A) my interpretation of using the concepts of dispersion and concentration rather than coming and going or (B) my interpretation that the I Ching (and the gods or whomever) are not particularily interested in our little ego questions?

 

[Trojina]

The problem of the paragraphs not working and the text being all bunched up is a problem all Internet Explorer users had with this site till Hilary fixed it. Before she fixed it though i found that changing fonts fixed the problem.

So

1. Message Hilary as she needs to know about these problems. She may not be able to fix it but if a number of people have the same problem she'd need to look at it.

2. Try a different browser.

3. Delete you cache. That's what I'm always being told to do which amounts to deleting cookies

4. Try a different font

 

[Trojina]

The man with the van, will be leaving from the Midwest and heading northeast in about a week. Then eventually circling back and heading to the southwest, back to California for the winter.So when hexagram 39 came up I was immediately struck by the coincidence, of mentioning 'avoid the northeast,' and 'keep to the southwest!' I realize that these are metaphors. But even so it gave me pause and had me think: 'maybe it is best to let him go to the northeast on his own, while I focus on my work in my new home for another month or so .. then when he heads back to the Southwest, I can join.'Does this seem like an apt interpretation? Or should I take it less literally, and focus on seeking out friends on the road, rather than continuing to focus on my own struggles with personal growth?

Take it less literally. 39 is a time of obstructions where one tries to battle on alone and of course here you are being given the option to join with a friend....39.5 friends come in a time of need.

I think Bradford once said the 'coming' was the new way you are trying and the 'going' was the old way of struggling on alone. Go.

However i don't think this is a definite, you might take it the other way but in your shoes i wouldn't read this as 'don't go'. Also I don't believe in passing up good opportunities because of I Ching answers one isn't sure about anyway.

You have to identify where you are in the answer, you can't just listen to other people. You have to recognize for yourself where you are in the 39, where is it in your life that you struggle, feel alone ? In line 5 someone appears to help. Where in this situation do you feel help coming from. Is it from the guy who is offering you a ride ? If so then it's quite a clear indication to take his offer surely ? If however you don't really want to and feel he's part of the obstacle then don't. You have to feel your way into this.

I also don't think one should really seek to know what an answer means via a popularity poll. Just because more people on a thread think you should do X really doesn't mean that's right at all and also you must go by your own sense of the answer not a poll.

 

[Trojina]

Maybe 'retreat' in the sense of make sure to be humble, retreat my ego?Open to all input, very appreciative of thoughts received so far, and planning to follow up and keep this thread updated. (Not sure why when I post the paragraphs breaks all collapse though!)

Maybe I'm missing something but where do you get the idea of retreat from ?

I am wholly allergic to i ching commentaries, (ie not the I Ching or the text of the I Ching but someone's commentary on it), that go on and on about humbling the ego. I don't see that in the reading at all. You are in a difficult place ? A friend has offered you a way forward. What does any of that have to do with humbling egos ? You aren't using Carol Anthony/Brian Browne Walker are you ?

 

[Trojina]

Also in my very limited experience with I Ching it seems to me that the gods (or whomever) speak through the I Ching in their own way. They give signs about what what we need to hear (and/or what they want us to hear) - they actually do not care what question we ask, or what question we think we need answered. So in my case, even though I asked a very specific 'question,' the I Ching gave me a much more global 'answer.' Does anybody have input on either (A) my interpretation of using the concepts of dispersion and concentration rather than coming and going or (B) my interpretation that the I Ching (and the gods or whomever) are not particularily interested in our little ego questions?

Well yes you can get a more global answer, you may have one here but if a friend has offered you something you need and you got 39.5 then well I think that line is pretty important. It actually says something like 'in times of difficulties friends appear' so it looks fairly literal to me.

The point of the I Ching is to ask it questions . The whole notion that it's too damn lofty to answer about things that are important to us and it's always talking about humbling the ego etc etc ...that's not the I Ching it's someone's version of it

 

[moss elk]

little_meditations mentioned no obstructions or problems, that is why I interpreted the way I did. But more info is always helpful.

little_meditations,
I can't help but notice that it seems like you define yourself by mobility, and are actually uncomfortable staying in one place.
Is there any truth to that?

 

[little_meditations]

Getting the idea of retreat

Hello Trojina. Thank you so much for your experienced replies. I was very happy to have additional feedback.For my ideas on this casting, I am combining my own ideas and the initial 'reading' from this site of course .. but I also enjoyed cross-referencing with the site of someone named James DeKorne. It mentions interpretations from a few different translators and stuff so that's interesting to me. I also have three hard copies of the I Ching (even though I'd never done a casting until now, I've always figured I'd get inti it eventually and when I saw neat-looking editions at used bookstores in my travels, I picked it up).One hard copy is really big and is a translation into English of a translation into German (Baynes into English from Wilhelm into German). The other two books I have are pictured in the attachments, both published by Asiapac in Singapore. The comic book one is translated by someone named Koh Kok Kiang, a journalist and I take that one a bit with a grain of salt but it does mention 'coming back' in a couple of lines.The yellow cover one is a translation by Chan Chiu Ming who I think is originally from Hong Kong but has a PhD in Chinese Language and Litterature from a pretty good school. He used the word 'retreat' in four lines.As far as the ego part, that for me has a pretty specific meaning. I don't know what other people mean by it. For me, ego is about attachments we have to crap (crap ideas ot crap desires or whatever). So my reading of 'coming back' rather than 'going forward' had to do with me being too spread thin and needing to use temperance and modesty (from hexagram 15) to cultivate myself a bit, including cutting the strings of things that become like an abyss in front of me - wasting energy browsing internet, debates and arguments with people, spending money in an undisciplined way, consuming junk food compulsively at times.I guess I'm not probably making any sense, but in my reading all of those things (the junk food, internet, spending money) are perfectly described by this idea of an abyss or danger or water 'in front.' (that idea of 39 having partly to do with 'danger/abyss/water in front' I got from the Wilhelm Baynes translation .. if it's totally outdated, I'm all ears!).So long story still long, for me the 'coming back' is about closing the gates of myself, so to speak. Which is interesting as far as this traveling is concerned, since I am planning to use it as a meditation retreat - even taking days off of talking, and going stretches wearing a blindfold.For someone starting work as a meditation teacher, I am totally loving what Clarity and the I Ching offered me in terms of hexagram 39.5 > 15 .. it makes really good sense for me now, after a few days of pulling my hair out about the meaning of course!Mike

 

[little_meditations]

As far as the paragraphs, I think it's just something funky with my account? I don't know. I've posted to and browsed this forum from both my phone and my computer. Neither one separates my paragraphs, and on neither one am I able to edit my posts .. I tap/click 'edit' and the little 'thinking' wheel just spins and spins and I never get access to editing my posts.

 

[little_meditations]

Moss Elk, good question, thank you! For me, stillness has never come naturally, in any sense of the term. Getting into meditation for example requires tons of discipline for me.On the flip side, in terms of defining myself by my mobility .. I'm not sure I define myself by it so much as it's just a huge part of who I've always been. I've covered a lot of ground in 38 years lol. And on top of that, I was always a very very fast runner. As I've gotten older there aren't as many occasions to break into a sprint, but growing up that speed was one of my most recognized traits among my classmates and soccer teammates and so on.I have family all over, I've lived all over, worked all kinds of jobs, dated all kinds of women, studied all kinds of things in lots of different universities. Even now I always seem to have more success starting projects than finishing them.

 

[Trojina]

You need to focus on what line 5 says as that is the most important part of the reading. It's just you seem to be ignoring it and focusing on retreat. 39 is not 33, you aren't just retreating but pausing to take a different direction, a less arduous more friendly direction.

 

[moss elk]

Most of the commentary on DeKorne's website is rubbish. Stick with the Wilhelm and Legge translations there.

 

[little_meditations]

Hello. So things have been okay so far. The journey to the northeast did indeed get cancelled. We tooled around Northern Michigan and I had a great deal of long-awaited self discovery. Then we stopped to in southeast michigan visiting our respective parents, and the driver decided he needs to be here awhile yet.I just now cast again asking what is my best approach moving forward and received hexagram 12.3.4.5 to 52 .. Any insights?

 

[deusa]

I must admit the "dating all kinds of women" sounded a bit objectifying to me...

 

[little_meditations]

Deusa, thank you for your comment - There are many people in this modern world - both male and female, straight and queer - who have dated many people. Are you a native English speaker? It sounds to me like you are projecting a little bit. Having said that, my life has been largely very complicated and the way things have gone has been often beyond my comprehension. I have had many efforts to start relationships, which didn't work and afterwards I felt terrible. Unfortunately, I can't keep the rest of my personality or my life (especially my medical condition called primary sclerosing cholangitis) at bay indefinitely in order to have everyday things like a career, a romance, a stable home. At least, so far that has been the case. Have I ever dated in order to satisfy sexual desires and boredom and loneliness? Yes, I admit I have. But I have also looked hard for love and stability. Very hard. But in this thread I am more learning from the IChing to find my own center - in fact I am planning a two month vow of silence. For me, 39.5--> 15 indicates 'become quiet and still internally, through smallness and temperance new pathways emerge'

 

[little_meditations]

The more I wrap my mind around it, the more remarkable it seems. First hexagram 39 --> 15 and then hexagram 12 --> 52 ? Of all the possible second readings I could have received, the parallels are mind blowing. Both 39 and 12 are obstacles and obstructions. 15 is earth over mountain, 52 is mountain over mountain. As my stated path from the beginning of this thread is to teach meditation .. truly, my mind is blown. Thank you!

 

[deusa]

thank you for answering. i liked reading what you wrote and i got your point.
i recently had 39.5 too, for a relationship question that is actually full of obstacles.
if you search for my thread, the most recent one, steve had somethings to say about this line.
i can't give you a feed-back yet, too recent.
but i think in 39.5 clearly there is help. from what i gathered reading here and there, you should ask for help when you need it, and there is a sense of team-work.
new ways of solving the obstacles come out.
is there any other way to keep moving? is this stop where you are now a good place to start teaching meditation as you wanted to? and then proceed when something comes up?
i am pretty practical, hope you don't mind.