March to a target

[heylise]

Does anybody know a good way to translate ?chastise? (R+K?s translation). It is zheng, ?march against?, or setting forth to bring order. It is composed of half-a-road (moving or walking), and a foot going to a city, or maybe to a target. Originally it was only the foot with the target.

Setting forth to bring order is good, but I don?t like the ?order?. There are situations when one has to set forth to act, but not especially to bring order. Sometimes maybe even to throw things in a mess, which is occasionally necessary too. One of its meanings is also to go on an inspection tour.

In 49 line 2 especially I don?t like the order. Revolution asks for action, but not in the first place for order. I would like to translate it everywhere the same, so I need a universal sentence, and I don?t seem to find one.

The next part is only for those who want to know where it occurs, don?t let it confuse anyone. I rather need the ideas of people who are not theoretic or rational. Wild guesses are very much appreciated.
It occurs in 9.6, 11.1, 15.6, 24.6, 27.2, 30.6, 34.1, 41.2, (and a lot more), but interesting is hex.49, where it is in three lines.
49.2: chastising auspicious. 49.3 and 6: chastising pitfall. In 49.6 its pitfall is opposed to ?settling augury auspicious?

LiSe

 

[cal val]

LiSe...

Setting forth to change the form of government?

Val

 

[yellowblue]

Hi LiSe,

I'm not familiar with Karcher's translation (R&K?)-- and I'm just beginning to learn regarding the Yi Jing...but from a very stern Christian upbringing and an inverted view of that when I hear the word "chastise" I think of not of , but only of "making one aware of, or setting one on a path to know or show them the error of their ways" so good things- best things will come of it.

Though I'm sure this already obvious.

Deb

 

[heylise]

?Changing the form of government?, for hex.49 it is very good. And for many of the other lines too. Even if someone asks about his/her own mind, then a new form of government is clarifying.
But imagine a girl in her first job, she does not dare to do or say anything. The Yi counsels her hex.11.1: go ahead, begin with acting, careful because everything you do drags along another one related to it. If the first thing is good, the second good one will follow without much effort. So do just little things at first, but make sure they are good things. But do start!
If he says ?do change the form of government?, I don?t know if she can understand.
And in 27.2: jaws changing the form of government, pitfall. .. ?Don?t visit the dentist??

That?s the trouble with short explanations, they have to be one-size-fits-all. For some dim reason I love finding these things out. When it is finally very short and everywhere appropriate, it gives me a kick.

I also liked Yellowblue?s: "making one aware of, or setting one on a path to know or show them the error of their ways". Val?s government and Yellowblue?s advice together are close to what I want to say. But HOW combine them in one sentence, and a short one too!

LiSe, trying to think with both brain-halves simultaneously

 

[heylise]

Maybe I should add a pinch of Val's "cracking my little whip" ?
LiSe

 

[hilary]

LiSe,

In typical useless vague way, I don't know where I got this idea from, but I thought that this phrase actually meant something military, like 'setting out to sort out the rebels at the borders'?

I usually interpret it as 'setting out to get things how you want them so you can fulfil your goals'. You can't have a prosperous, harmonious kingdom if there are border raids, or whatever. If you can set out and make things more ordered, your own position is more secure, and you can entertain bigger ambitions.

I know none of this is exactly punchy - I leave that to you

('Determination', for the double meaning of zhen, is absolutely brilliant...) Is this setting out to safeguard your territory/ make your space safe/ expand your territory?

 

[heylise]

Hilary has the perfect meaning, and I know zheng ('chastise') is exactly what she says (but a lot better than myself), but it is too long. That's the main problem. I am struggling with making it terse.

I have a couple of new ways now to look at it. I hoped for the perfect solution, but I know how hard it is.

I am going to put all suggestions on a piece of paper and carry it along and look at it from time to time. Sometimes I found things that way, which defied thinking about them. Maybe this too is a meaning of hex.42: cooking something in that bowl I carry on my own shoulders?

Hope the spirits will help a little too.

LiSe

 

[hilary]

A huge relief to know I haven't been talking complete twaddle all this time - thank you! Please tell us what you come up with.

Every time I write anything, I struggle with making it terse. And generally lose...

Not this time, though!

 

[hilary]

Ah - so that's where I learned this from. Thanks

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