Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
I need help with this.
My mother and I have in general a good relationship throughout time, but there is always a point at which we stall and can't understand each other. Sometimes I don't have patience with her slowness and negligence towards life and react strongly (she says unpolitely but I do not agree). OTOH she always seems to adopt the victim role what causes a guilty feeling. I wonder if I am the wrong party, if she is the wrong party, if this would be the famous catholic guilt, how could I do to improve our relationship and who she really feels about me.
I asked: "What do I need to know about my strong reactions?"
Answer: 5.3 >> 60 (this is not so confusing, seems to tell me to be patient)
Then: "How does she feel about me?"
Answer: 49.3 >> 17
Confused I asked again, this time specifically about her love for me.
Answer: 40.1.2 >> 51
Thanks in advance.
I asked: "What do I need to know about my strong reactions?"
Answer: 5.3 >> 60 (this is not so confusing, seems to tell me to be patient)
Then: "How does she feel about me?"
Answer: 49.3 >> 17
Confused I asked again, this time specifically about her love for me.
Answer: 40.1.2 >> 51
Thanks in advance.
Perhaps your strong reactions just cause you to lose clarity, cloud your view, bogged down in the swamps. But this is in the context of hex 5 waiting...so its an image of getting stuck somewhere while you are waiting. The fanyao is 60.3 not having restraint gives regret ..and the flip side you got 5.3 hanging around gets you bogged down. Makes me wonder if you are just spending too much time and energy around your mother or in her prescence...the strong reactions may come through feeling stuck and trapped. perhaps you need to place a limit (60) internal or external on her place in your life.
BTW you aren't alone i think many women have these kind of issues with their mother. My reactions to mine are very strong too even when shes being perfectly sweet I've come to the conclusion its a kind of boundary issue. Perhaps we are so enmeshed in one another on some level ( we did emerge from her ) we push each others buttons too easy so limits are important..space and distance to see one another as seperate people rahter than mother/daughter.
49.3 how does she feel about you ? (Phew thats a heavy question do you think it can be summed up in a line...I'm sure its likely her feelings are deep and complex like most mothers for their kids) Hmm gives me an impression of trying to figure you out lol, needing to understand, needing to talk. If theres a change sought in your relationship (49) it needs to happen when all have had time to digest the issues, perhaps more chatting and discussion..3 times then its accepted
40>51 her love for you. As a sentence it reads 'liberating thunder' I'm not sure if this question is being answered directly -as its quite a deep question. 51 can be about strong reaction, passion and 40- the release of it. Struggling to articulate an answer here, though i kind of like the image. Its like you need to liberate each other and that may be through strong words, release of strong emotion. You ask 'I wonder if I am the wrong party, if she is the wrong party' perhaps thats the question that could stand being blown to bits to liberate you both. What if neither of you were the wrong party you were just negotiating the difficulties of love and enmeshment...if so looks good for positive release increasing emotional vitality. Sorry can't be more specific..perhaps others can"
I like your interpretation Troyan!! That’s exactly how I feel. It’s incredible but I know I lose clarity. I have little patience. My initial interpretation on 5.3 was: “put limits in your lack of patience”, but somehow this thought lets me in a type of despair because I fail in that. Fanyao… I still have to learn a lot about it… OTOH I’m so sure I have to spend less time with her. I hope I can do that. I feel very stuck because she lives with me and depends on me. I don’t know how to get out of that and I pray it’s not something like a spiritual rescue, like a kind of spell on me. I don’t mean to be rude, but I just fear my life is going in directions I don’t like because of it.
Yes… I see that. BTW, my mother is not sweet. We both do not show affection for each other. But what annoys me is the attitude she adopts towards my crude reactions is just playing the victim role for days. I feel devastated with that.
49 – it’s maybe silly but I feel she doesn’t love me enough because she shows how bad she feels to depend ($$ly) on me. She definitely tries to figure me out. I push her a lot for life. I started seeing 49.3 as Yi telling me “accept it, it’s irreversible”. And the thing about ghosts is what scared me (as I mentioned above). I saw 17 reinforcing all this.
But your interpretation now seems far more mature. Yes, chatting, discussions, ugh. I wish I could run out.
5.3 perhaps you are in a mud of pent up anger towards her from childhood which you need to let go of rather than fuel..perhaps it's saying you should acknowlege why you're angry, perhaps resentment of her negligent or passive ways making you feel not special, which obv effects self esteem.. and then Limitation, about trying to put a break on these familiar reactions - perhaps realise she is only human, and stop blaming her for who she is.
I think 5.3 is saying that even though it's unfair, it's your duty as a daughter perhaps to absorb and accept your mother's weaknesses (the mud perhaps) and then cleanse yourself from their influence.. if that makes sense..
49.3 > 'repeated and well founded complaints should not fail of a hearing'
I think your mum is aware that there is something wrong which needs to be changed. Perhaps she is unsure how to broach it with you.. She cares about you so she doesn't want to push you away, but she wants to improve your relationship and be open with you.
Of course she loves you! She's your ma'! (40.1 'no words are needed')
Changing to the arousing also always spells love I reckon.. heaving heart.
Hope that helps! Think you just need to talk and perhaps laugh at human imperfection and dysfunctional families.. no parent can be perfect - unless you read all the guides maybe!
I asked about my relationship with my father the other day, as similarly, I errupt with anger with him sometimes.. feeling anger and exasperation as I do with no one else.. and then feel guilty.
I received 21.3 > 30
'The matter at issue is an old one' (always been discord but then also we sometimes get on like a house on fire)
I think here saying don't keep 'chewing on the bad meat' ie re-visiting old feelings of anger with him, which are now perhaps unfair but old habits die hard..
So work on it, temperance and patience.. leading to hex 30 (there is a light of love there despite the day to day difficulties that may arise.. and that's worth curbing the anger for..)
Dear Mary,
As em ching says, you are certainly not alone. Mothers can be so infuriating and confusing. I swore I would be a more enlightened mother to my own daughter and I cringe when i hear the same complaints from her about me that I have had about my own mom.
5.3 is a great description of the kind of dynamic that causes me trouble with my mom. If I am not prepared for her before I interact with her, I am in that 5.3 place...very vulnerable and liable to react. 60 : reminder of need to put the boundaries in place before moving forward.
49.3 I think maybe moms have a hard time seeing us as grown-ups, no matter how old we are. maybe your mom has discovered that you are a grown woman but she has relapses when she thinks you're five again . give her time becaus she really wants a relationship with you, too 17
and 40.1.2 oh my, perfect! a mothers love is all about forgiveness and needing forgiveness. her love for you is like a thunderbolt
Ah I hadn't realised that, that does make a difference doesn't it, she depends on you, you can't get way. Thats very hard, I do sympathise and I also think only a saint could remain calm all the time in this situation.
Does sound like she is being emotionally manipulative in a way thats harmful to you. Sounds like you need to be able to extricate yourself from getting caught up in these games...5.3 becomes much clearer, about being bogged down. Blaming yourself probably clouds things even further and she gives you lots of fuel to blame yourself. Its a shame you can't show affection for each other as you obviously do care for her or you wouldn't be supporting her.
Er if i were in your situation I think I'd find it very hard to be 'mature'. Shes being difficult becuase she doesn't like to be dependent on you, thats such a difficult situation. I can't see you should accept destructive manipulative behaviour fom her,that doesn't do either of you any good.
Not sure if you have to live with her in order to physically care for her or its just financial arrangement, its just i can see you really do need a bit more space from her. But I think its great you care for her, many don't even bother with their mothers. Don't be too hard on yourself
Now I know the situation more, looking at the answers 5.3 showing you bogged down, then 49.3 changes that needs discussing, then 40>51..if we forget the actual questions for a moment (and the Yi does bypass these sometimes) its like a story of someone being stuck (5.3) thinking and discussing change (49.3) then finally being freed , not stuck anymore (40>51) it does give a picture of someone climbing out of a swamp. Don't know how thats going to happen but 5.3 can't last forever.
It’s clearer now, and after I studied Wilhelm. Before I was reading Karcher and sometimes he has confusing interpretations.
Oh, this community is our panacea!!!
Thank you very very much.[/COLOR]
Moving lines in Karcher
Many times Karcher says to "Go, go, go. Take the risk," in situations where other translators have traditionally said, "Be very cautious." If one possesses other good translations, one can easily notice these reversals and discrepancies. I think it's good you have switched away from using the Karcher translation for moving lines and are exploring other translations. I must say, however, that when Karcher came out with his deeper, more metaphysical and mythological approach, he saved my life in another way. I am deeply indebted to Stephen Karcher -- but not for his translations of the moving lines.
marien
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Hi Mary,
I've found Nigel Richmond's translation helpful for understanding things at the inner level. Maybe it would work for your questions. The link is a pdf; scroll down a ways to get the the hexagrams.
The strength to be under control is oppressing. I approached the Yi to try to comprehend the reason (Taowise) for this lack of patience and asked how she feels to try to add comprehension on this.
Ah sorry, did I crash the party? Or just miss the end of it?
Either way, sorry.
Well, don't wear yourself out trying to control the feeling, cuz it's coming from a relatively deep pattern in your personality, just control the expression of the feeling if you can. That way you can observe the pattern better and see how it operates. With these entrenched emotional patterns (can you say 'mother'? lol) there's no way you're going to get rid of them overnight, but if you pay attention to them you CAN see how they operate better. And you know what? You're better off with that approach, looking at YOUR reactions and feelings than you are looking at your mum's feelings. I mean, even if you knew your mum's feelings, even if you knew about her love for you, what difference would it make? Depending on what you found out, it might give you some warm, fuzzy feelings, or it might make you feel like an orphan, but would YOU be any different? Would you understand the emotions and reactions coming up in you any better? Nope.
kdedeaux4
thinking
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Hi Mary,
I'm usually asking you for help because I never trust my own ability to interpret, but my first thought looking over your responses, was the question of trust. Are there any underlying trust issues at work here between you two?
The other thought that came to me was the transition of relationships, as in child moving to adult, mother moving to child. That's of course a drastic example, but hopefully it makes at least a bit of sense...? Those transitions are difficult for everyone, as we often try to keep the relationship in one place, when in reality those "positions" within the relationship are shifting all the time. Anyway, through these subtle (or not so subtle) changes, in themselves, a trust issue can occur; as in neither feel altogether secure in their position as a manner of how to relate to each other within the relationship.
Just some thoughts that came to mind as I looked at your questions and their
responses...
I can sympathize with your frustration here.
Blessings to you
barbra
The person vs. the pattern
Sometimes when people who live together are conflicted on the level of ideas, values, words and gestures, they can meet and agree through some other medium, like listening to music, their wacky sense of humor, baking cookies together, whatever works.
Your mom is not her personality. We are all larger than our irritating patterns of behavior. Usually there exists a bridge between people.
Dobro
Ah okay, I like the sound of 'differential spice'. I think it might be a new job description.
Dobro
Ah okay, I like the sound of 'differential spice'. I think it might be a new job description.
I asked: "What do I need to know about my strong reactions?"
Answer: 5.3 >> 60 (this is not so confusing, seems to tell me to be patient)
Then: "How does she feel about me?"
Answer: 49.3 >> 17
Confused I asked again, this time specifically about her love for me.
Answer: 40.1.2 >> 51
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).