Please help:is any1 able to calculate a date from a toss? 31.3.5.6>35

[petra33]

Dear all, I would like to know when something will happen (to be ready for that..and don't get impatient in the meanwhile).
So, today I had this toss: 31.3.5.6 to 35.
I am not an expert at all, but I heard that if you specifically ask "WHEN" the I-Ching answers AND that if you get a single Hexagram the thing you are asking about is unlikely to happen.
So, I assuming that what I am asking for will happen.
But I don't know how to deal with 3 moving lines. I know every Hexagrams last about 6 days and that there are some of them specifically related to solstices and equinoxes (24- 34 - 44 - 20) and seasons (51 - 30 - 58 - 29); therefore, we could think about the "time aspect" in the answer, anyway.. But it is not the case of my toss.
31 is related to the middle June (ish) and 35 to March (on the internet, there are some lists of dates related to the single Hexagrams). But I think it's too simplistic to say "between June and March". And after all, we are at the end of July ... to be honest I think there is a chance it is going to happen in a few days, but I don't want to get disappointed if it's not..especially if I just need to wait for a little bit more..
I would like to use my energies in the best way, avoiding to waste time in the waiting..

Is anyone good in these kind of things? Coz I was looking for a specific answer.. I know it is there, but I am not good enough for that
or do you know any website I can use for that?

Thank you very much anyway, and all the best to all.

 

[Liselle]

A good member of this site (Sparhawk), generously took the time to translate the works of an I Ching scholar by the name of Ricardo Andree, and then made them available to people here. Here is Sparhawk's post about it, at the end of which are links to his translations on Google Docs:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...-of-Ricardo-Andre%E9&highlight=ricardo+andree

I looked at it a little bit. I think there are cases where it might be fairly straightforward. But I also found it confusing. I found myself with questions such as, "What if this?" and "What if that?" and "My reading doesn't seem to fit the example; now what do I do?" and "I don't understand what he meant here." My overall impression was that Mr. Andree may be a very learned person, but he is not the world's best instruction-writer.

Also, it appears that a forum member named Jesed was very good with this method, and people have indicated that there is value in hunting down and reading his posts. However, Jesed's posts don't seem to be searchable anymore through the forum search, so Google Site Search is possibly the only option:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=site:www.onlineclarity.co.uk+jesed

I looked at a few of Jesed's posts/threads:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?259-Calendaric-calculations&highlight=andree

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...endaric-Calculations&highlight=ricardo+andree

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?573-Asking-"when"

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?573-Asking-"when"&p=9165#post9165

(That last link is a specific post of Jesed's from the thread in the link above it.)

Alas, I didn't make much headway there, either. But maybe you will . If you do, maybe you could post your solution and explain it to us!

 

[petra33]

Thank you very much lisa!
I am having a look at the links....... I am actually still confuse, but I really appreciate your effort for me

Yes, if anyone want to try and also explain how he/she got the result I will appreciate it.

I can try after reading your links (but I am not sure at all):
I could assume that every trigram count 45 days to divide for the moving lines. But I don't know how many trigrams are in Hex 31... I thought there were maximum 2, but apparently you can have more than 2(?) and definitely less than 2 (for Hex 1 or 2).

But assuming that I have jut 2 trigrams in 31(Mountain and Lake) , I have 45+45= 90. Then I have to divide for the 6 (90/6)= 15 days each line.

I can start to count the middle of June (because 31 has that week in the lunar calendar), adding 45 days.. So, considering that today is the 23rd (45 days after the 15th of June), it could happen in 24 hours??

I think it is possible, but pretty unlikely
Also, I don't know how many trigrams I should count, and if I really have to start my calculation from June.

So, yes ..please: if anyone has a method that works, please share and explain!

Thanks and all the best to all!

 

[petra33]

Thank you very much lisa!
I am having a look at the links....... I am actually still confuse, but I really appreciate your effort for me

Yes, if anyone want to try and also explain how he/she got the result I will appreciate it.

I can try after reading your links (but I am not sure at all):
I could assume that every trigram count 45 days to divide for the moving lines. But I don't know how many trigrams are in Hex 31... I thought there were maximum 2, but apparently you can have more than 2(?) and definitely less than 2 (for Hex 1 or 2).

But assuming that I have jut 2 trigrams in 31(Mountain and Lake) , I have 45+45= 90. Then I have to divide for the 6 (90/6)= 15 days each line.

I can start to count the middle of June (because 31 has that week in the lunar calendar), adding 45 days.. So, considering that today is the 23rd (45 days after the 15th of June), it could happen in 24 hours??

I think it is possible, but pretty unlikely
Also, I don't know how many trigrams I should count, and if I really have to start my calculation from June.

So, yes ..please: if anyone has a method that works, please share and explain!

Thanks and all the best to all!

 

[petra33]

PS: another option could be
3 trigrams in 31 (Mountain, Heaven and Lake) > 45+45+45(days)/6(lines)= 22.5 (days)
so, from 15th of June + 67.5 days (3 moving lines)= between the 8th or the 9th of August (?).... but now it's seems too long waiting LOL


PPS: and probably my counting is wrong anyway (!) .... I am really bad in things: math is not my thing :O

 

[Liselle]

Hi Petra,

I'll try to refresh my memory about whatever I may have learned about this method - it's been a while since I looked at it, and remember, I never made much sense of it anyway. So don't expect anything actually helpful, okay? It may take me a while to get to it, but if you have email notifications set up for threads you are subscribed to, you won't have to keep checking the actual thread.

(I did try just now to see if I could post something quickly, and...no . It'll have to wait until I have significant time to devote to it. Sorry...)

 

[pocossin]

In my opinion correct judgments come from intuition, not from calculation.

 

[anemos]

3 trigrams in 31 (Mountain, Heaven and Lake)

It's 6 trigrams because you move clockwise (mountain , thunder.... earth, lake)
that is you time frame i.e. 1/8- 30/4 .

changing lines is easy because you need 6 intervals and have six hex... so you can figure out the time easily

Problem is your point of reference( time of inquiry) is outside that frame, it belongs to the 'past'

 

[Liselle]

Problem is your point of reference( time of inquiry) is outside that frame, it belongs to the 'past'

Petra, from what Anemos has already figured out here (thank you, Anemos!), yours is not one of the straightforward cases, unfortunately. I remember this "point of reference outside the frame" thing she mentioned as being a complication.

Will still try to look at it when I can, but I can pretty much guarantee my own failure .

 

[petra33]

Thanks to all for the attempt I really wish you find the time to come back to put some light
To be honest, now I am more confused (eheheh!)... also I don't understand why it's in the"past" and why I have to count 6 trigrams (I thought I have to count the possible combination of the first hexagram)..
If it's in the past, means that maybe already happened and I missed it? Like a positive job's answer arrived by e-mail and somehow I didn't open it (because I didn't want to know or because it's in the spam list and I don't know yet)?

Please anyone wants to try (and explain the method), feel free.. I promise to update of course ;
All the best to all and thanks again

 

[anemos]

Thanks to all for the attempt I really wish you find the time to come back to put some light

My "expertise" ends at the point i finish the calculations- the easy part. I don't use this method because I don't know how it works so there is no reason to put in my head false assumptions or ideas.

Would be great if someone having experience with this system would enlighten us...

as for your questions why 6 hexs or why "in the past" its in the instructions.

 

[bradford]

This sort of reading should require the deposit of coins, and be accompanied by flashing lights, and the sound of whirring gears and dinging bells.

 

[Liselle]

This sort of reading should require the deposit of coins, and be accompanied by flashing lights, and the sound of whirring gears and dinging bells.

You're implying that you know for sure it doesn't work?

I have zero experience with it to be able to tell. I tried once to make sense of Andree's instructions, such as they are, and succeeded to a point (I think) with very simple cases. Then I got ridiculously lost.

Jesed seemed to think it worked? And people seemed to put some stock in his opinion?

But if you're saying you know for sure it doesn't work, then probably none of us should waste any more time on it.

 

[bradford]

You're implying that you know for sure it doesn't work?

I just think that fortune telling misses the whole point and higher purpose of the Yi, despite the historical tradition. Fatal ain't called fatal for nothing. You reduce yourself to simple mechanics.

 

[Liselle]

I see your point, but doesn't that depend on whether or not it actually works? If it does, then by definition it's part of the I Ching and not fortune-telling, right?

I couldn't understand it well enough to test it out. And the one person who did seem to understand it isn't here anymore.

 

[anemos]

I just think that fortune telling misses the whole point and higher purpose of the Yi, despite the historical tradition. Fatal ain't called fatal for nothing. You reduce yourself to simple mechanics.

Inho, It depends on how we define fortune telling and what qualities/ attributes etc we assign to the oracle and to the inquirer. I believe we try to figure out future events , or see where the course of actions we take now will lead us we make predictions /assumptions for the future. Misfortune- regret- good luck etc are everywhere in Yi.

Uncertainty is the root of the need to construct oracles and its a shared need where we are savages living thousands of years ago or modern man with big frontal lobe Roughly there are two approaches : a passive one where the see the locus of control totally to external factors/sources and a more engaged one where ultimately become better "predictor" and by that I just mean we focus more tentatively to the "seed"

Simple mechanisms ( in nature not in importance) are also the means to produce a reading and create associations and , in a degree, we relay to external factors but that doesn't necessary means we reduce ourselves.

there are several discussions re the fortune telling Yi , but I don't recall getting a simple definition of the term or why Yi isn't about fortune telling. It also confuses me how we can talk about Now , without taking into account the Past and the Future.

 

[petra33]

Even though I am "The guilty", because I started this, I agree to say using the I-Ching to predict things is not the best way.. But I also believe it is not important what happen to us, but our reaction of it. So time to time, it is not a wrong thing to try to be ready to face important issues.
Also because this time I cannot force the events, but I need to keep focused and well organized...

Anyway, time will tell me anyway....... so, I'll keep you updated (it can be useful for someone for those which are looking for cases for their methods).

All the best to all!

 

[pocossin]

Timing in Plum Blossom Method is described in message #14 here:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17505-Plum-Blossom-Topics/page2

It is completely intelligible, and the Shao Yong stories are delightful, but I prefer a more intuitive and less calculative approach. Nevertheless, for anyone who wants to calculate timing, it is a good way to go.

 

[pocossin]

I don't recall getting a simple definition of the term or why Yi isn't about fortune telling

Fortune telling judges by accidental, superficial features. Divination judges by essence, little more than the Delphic "Know thyself." The fate in a situation is that persons will act in accordance with their essences. They cannot do otherwise. A diviner's role is to examine the essence of the querent and interpret accordingly. Willowfox identified herself as a fortuneteller, but no longer does. In fact, her judgments were sometimes based on a profound understanding of situation and querent and were divinations, not fortune telling. Whether or not the Yi is about fortune telling depends on the effort and sincerity that the diviner puts into it.

 

[anemos]

Whether or not the Yi is about fortune telling depends on the effort and sincerity that the diviner puts into it.

Yes , I agree with that. Its about an attitude not the oracle and the ways you acquire info to ponder on them.