The interview

[meng]

But in my professional opinion, to go in with a fully fledged plan would be absolutely the wrong thing to do, and if that's what they want then we'd be wrong for each other.

Wow, do I ever admire this approach and attitude. It's not only realistic but thoroughly professional. Plans are great, but a good plan is able to adjust to the demands on the time, not to be locked into an obsolete strategy. My hat's off to you. Now all you need is for someone to recognize and maximize all that creative potential. It's saying that the dragon is laying low still, so you wanna hole-up awhile, "see" the greatness (visualize it working).

It looks like that's as far as it's going to let you know. Don't you love a mystery?

 

[Leracy]

Thanks Meng! But IS that what it's saying? My question was what impression did I make on THEM. So I interpret the 1 as being how they saw me - as being a hugely creative force.

Line 1 seems to be about not being ready for action. That's understandable. They might still have other people to see.

Line 2, Sarah Dening says 'Aim high. Your abilities qualify you to make a major contribution to the situation but you are not yet in a position where your value can be fully appreciated. It would be to your great advantage to cooperate with somebody who is already involved in your field of interest.

So, looked at from their perspective - 'she's very able, qualified etc, but can we use her?' Or am I being too negative? And 33 - retreat.

I just wonder if I came across as too dynamic?

This is precisely why I rarely comment on other people's readings - there is always so much interpretation involved!

 

[meng]

Yes, I understand what you mean, and you're probably absolutely right. But the end result sounds the same as far as where you are right now, laying back.

This is interesting in light of losing the boy, gaining the man. Which is the boy, your high ideals or the job?

 

[Leracy]

Hmm - is it that stark a choice? Not much point in going to a job where you won't be properly used or appreciated. On the other hand, it's a blank sheet and could be very good. But there are things I don't know yet and can't know. So I'll wait. If I'm offered the job I will request a meeting to go over the things that are bothering me. If I'm not offered it - well, c'est la vie!

And in the meantime, 'What would working at (name) be like for me'

21 4 27

Biting through leading to (?) nourishment. Doesn't look all bad, does it?

 

[meng]

mm mm, no, not bad at all. Fan Yao is the greedy tiger. Maybe nourishment of a different kind? Metal arrows has sometimes meant merit, honor or reward. Unless launched from canons, they're pretty useless as projectiles.

And yeah, that was a pretty stark set of options. I rather like biting down to it, chuckles.

 

[Leracy]

See what I mean about divination? You ask a perfectly sensible question and suddenly you're a dragon in a field and dealing with a greedy tiger firing metal arrows that MIGHT mean honours and rewards but on the other hand, if launched from a cannon, jolly spiffing deadly. Meanwhile, your interviewers are retreating and you're biting through something to give yourself nourishment.

Sorry, it's been a long day. The 'biting through' makes sense 'cos I'd have a lot of work sorting out what needs to be done there - 'biting through' a lot of work to create something new, but would need to be VERY determined and dogged to do it. Nourishment? Well, it would put food on the table!

 

[ginnie]

And in the meantime, 'What would working at (name) be like for me'

21 4 27

Biting through leading to (?) nourishment. Doesn't look all bad, does it?

Hi Ann,

Do you think you could write the response this way: 21.4 > 27. Makes it so much easier to read. Not that it was hard to bite through!

Yes, it means getting down to essentials and attaining the prize. Also, when you get an arrow, you get something practical as well as valuable. And the 27 speaks for itself: It's your livelihood.

 

[ginnie]

I asked 'what impression did I make at the interview'?

1 1 2 33

Given that this is the impression I made on them - once again, am I too strong and too much? And how does the retreat fit in? I'm confused!! And I'm not sure I like being a dragon!!!

I am also wondering about that H33 here. I think it comes from your conflict about the 2-year waiting period. That's a very long time to be on provisional status! It has made you go kind of numb and withdrawn regarding this position, is my interpretation.

Regarding the first and second lines moving in H1, that's great, Ann! Nothing to be concerned about. At first your creative abilities were hidden, but later they became clearly visible to your interviewers.

I know the language of Yi is very vivid. Dragons, arrows and so forth. But after a while we learn how to translate this into ordinary English. Dragons mean creativity and taking the initiative. Definitely do not mean you came off too strong. Not at all.

My interpretation was that you rose to the occasion beautifully and creatively, but afterwards had a retreating feeling, because of the long provisional period in the contract.

 

[Leracy]

Hi Ann,

Do you think you could write the response this way: 21.4 > 27. Makes it so much easier to read. Not that it was hard to bite through!

Yes, it means getting down to essentials and attaining the prize. Also, when you get an arrow, you get something practical as well as valuable. And the 27 speaks for itself: It's your livelihood.

Sorry and yes of course.

See what I mean though - I thought that getting an arrow was more like being struck by one :bag:

 

[Leracy]

I am also wondering about that H33 here. I think it comes from your conflict about the 2-year waiting period. That's a very long time to be on provisional status! It has made you go kind of numb and withdrawn regarding this position, is my interpretation.

Regarding the first and second lines moving in H1, that's great, Ann! Nothing to be concerned about. At first your creative abilities were hidden, but later they became clearly visible to your interviewers.

I know the language of Yi is very vivid. Dragons, arrows and so forth. But after a while we learn how to translate this into ordinary English. Dragons mean creativity and taking the initiative. Definitely do not mean you came off too strong. Not at all.

My interpretation was that you rose to the occasion beautifully and creatively, but afterwards had a retreating feeling, because of the long provisional period in the contract.

Very kind, and thank you Ma'am

I am feeling very '33' about it all now. One of my referees had a long telephone talk with them today (because they messed up taking up references) and afterwards he said it was like talking to a brick wall. I had felt like that in the interview. Ho hum. Well, wait and see if the job's offered, and if it is I will go and have another talk with them.

Meng and Ginnie, thank you for your continuing interest :bows:

 

[ginnie]

It looks more gloomy than it actually is

See what I mean though - I thought that getting an arrow was more like being struck by one :bag:

No, getting the arrow is a very good thing. The downside of getting the arrow is that you have to work so hard -- chewing through such a lot of dried-out, tough meat -- to find the arrow embedded in your food.

The other downside of getting the arrow is that after you have the arrow, you might wonder, what am I supposed to do with this arrow?

Anyway, when you get this line, the situation is said to look more gloomy than it actually is.

 

[Leracy]

No, getting the arrow is a very good thing. The downside of getting the arrow is that you have to work so hard -- chewing through such a lot of dried-out, tough meat -- to find the arrow embedded in your food.

The other downside of getting the arrow is that after you have the arrow, you might wonder, what am I supposed to do with this arrow?

Anyway, when you get this line, the situation is said to look more gloomy than it actually is.

Shoot with it????

Well, let's see what happens. I'm now only waiting to hear whether I will get offered it or not. My feeling is that if I do get offered it, then I'm going to have to go and see them again to iron out a few things. And I won't be surprised if I don't get it because I didn't do the task they set as they wanted it done. Ah well .....

Thanks for explaining that Ginnie

 

[Leracy]

Well, I didn't get the job. I'm not surprised given what happened - and also some things that happened that I didn't post here. They handled my references in a totally unprofessional and insensitive way which caused me quite a bit of embarrassment with a current client.

Anyway, always best to learn from an experience, so:

Why didn't they offer me the job?

50.6 > 32

The cauldron is all about transformation. Line 6 seems to be about you yourself being all right. Hex 32 is about peseverance.

So was I too transforming for them? That would fit - it really did seem as though they wanted things to happen but actually didn't want to put in any effort or make any budget available to do it.

What did I do wrong in the interviews?

23.4 > 35

Stripping away leading to progress. Or progress as a relating hexagram and stripping away being what I did wrong. Sarah Dening calls hex 23 'Doing away with the old' and line 4 she says is being faced with misfortune that you can't do anything about. I don't understand that at all! Unless ... did I show up the cracks in their thinking too much? Not a good thing to do in an interview. :bag:

I have seen articles about 23 being a situation that you can do nothing about and therefore do nothing but wait for things to get better on their own.

It is of course entirely possible that the result of this was a foregone conclusion and that the choice was made before the process started. UK Public Sector is well known for this practice = it's about duly following processes and being 'seen to be fair'.

Or I just made a complete hash of it.

And finally

What should I do about finding a job in the light of this experience?

23



Actually, even despite the fact that I do need a job, my overwhelming feeling is relief that I won't have to decide whether to take this job with misgivings or to turn it down.

 

[Trojina]

Can't tackle your other queries right now but thanks for getting back on this, very interesting.

When i saw the 33 i felt you weren't going to get it purely because i have had it with regard to jobs i didn't get also., but didn't want to say that to you at that stage., besides one can't always generalise i guess. Strange because we aren't exactly the ones withdrawing are we.(or are we ?) Just thinking on your 1>33 answer, I think hex 1 can indicate your pure life force as in your destiny...destiny isn't the right word exactly...your path your spirit..the divine dragon. In the larger picture your spirit withdrew from this. Again I have no adequate language for what i mean but I see something much bigger in hex one about you not getting it than what you did or didn't do in the interview..more like it was not 'meant to be'...your dragon withdrew, not his path. Actually to me the 1>33 makes redundant others questions about what did you do wrong and so on. You did nothing wrong this wasn't the place for your energy, the dragon withdrew...it has other missions

Yi aside I shuddered when I read that they had said to you you had two years to prove to them they should make you permanent. There was something about that that seemed unpleasant... You really are probably better off without this one but sorry you didn't get it anyway..

 

[Leracy]

Trojan, thank you. I think you're absolutely right. I didn't even LOOK right for that organisation. I was wearing a good suit (not 'expensive' but very slightly unusual and in a deep damson/purple colour) and they were quite shabby and in very bland colours. Everyone I saw was very scruffy - but these people are actually well paid so it isn't a matter of can't afford. They didn't get my name right when they called me in to present - called me by the previous applicant's name. And about half way through the interview, (this is hindsight - I don't think I realised at the time) I did experience a sense of disappointment that they were asking such bog standard questions - which, incidentally, were exactly the same as the first interview. So yes, I think the 33 was them observing me as I unconsciously withdrew.

The two year thing is significant I think. There is legislation about job protection over here, and giving people a two year contract is becoming a standard way of getting round that legislation - put cynically, it's a way for employers not to give employees their legal rights. But that aside, the phrase 'you have two years to convince us that this should be a permanent role' didn't give me any confidence about their managment commitment to what that role was all about. I was worried that it would be like working in a vacuum and being blamed for not delivering. I can't prove that of course but there were so many questions about managing conflict and opposition and also about how I'd convince managers that they should adopt new practices. I just didn't feel that I would have even my own boss's backing.

I started this thread not as a 'what's going to happen' question but as an attempt to watch the Yi in action through a live situation. I have been extremely grateful for the learning experience and for everyone's input. :bows:

 

[Leracy]

Just a final word. A friend of mine said that I may have come across as aggressive in their eyes. I was quite troubled by this - had no wish to do that or be that.

So

How did they see me overall?

25.6 17

‘Without entanglement. Acting brings blunders.
No direction yields fruit.’

Oh dear .... Just what I said. I'd rather not rush into action too soon because it could result in processes that were not suitable.

No, it wasn't the place for me.

 

[ginnie]

Flip charts and colored pens... sounds like a shoe-in to me.

A "shoe-in" means that it you would accomplish these tasks easily and get the job. It's a slang expression and I don't know its origin.

 

[ginnie]

job isn't big enough for me

I have been wondering if the 'flatness' I felt is because perhaps this job isn't big enough for me. I've not worked that much over the last couple of years because of health problems, but the work i've done has probably been at a higher level than this.

Therefore it's a good thing this job didn't come through. You're not stuck with it.

 

[ginnie]

They handled my references in a totally unprofessional and insensitive way which caused me quite a bit of embarrassment with a current client.

There's that 38.3, Ann. While they had your documents in their possession, they mishandled them, affecting your relationship with a current client. After all, while they had them, you couldn't get them back, and you were at their mercy. This was how they seized your oxen and your cart, cut your nose and however the wording of 38.3 goes. This is how we learn Yi. Thanks for this 'open lab,' Ann . . .

 

[ginnie]

I was worried that it would be like working in a vacuum and being blamed for not delivering.

All jobs are like this now.

What can we do about it? I think the answer is to try to connect in a human and meaningful way with the people we meet. Through this 'networking,' offers will come to us through the people we have a natural affinity for, towards whom we feel no discomfort or discord.

Your showing up in vivid clothes when they were all in beiges and browns, Ann -- You overturned their couch, as the Yi pointed out!!! ("Because he finds them unworthy," adds Blofeld.) Yes, but now it's a done deal, so it's time to do nothing. Just recoup.

Actually, I think you're a very intuitive and creative individual and wouldn't have felt happy there among all the beiges and browns . . .

Anyone intelligent enough to be seriously interested in the I Ching is going to feel that jobs are too narrow for our talents and other skills. But I still think it's a good idea to have a way to earn money. Still working on that aspect, myself, Ann. Because I tend to make decisions about people and situations based on my emotions rather than what would be the best route to follow in the long run, the path that would benefit both myself and other people . . .

You see, after a while you may be the 'superior man,' surrounded by petty people or those who are called inferior men in the I Ching. How do you relate to being a more conscious and aware individual, surrounded by petty people? By finding them unworthy and unpleasant to deal with? It is said that the superior man gains the ability, step by step by step, to turn every situation to good advantage. Still working on that myself, Ann!

 

[Leracy]

It wasn't a very bright suit - actually quite a sober colour. But not beige or brown!!

You're right Ginnie.

What should I learn from this experience to help me find employment soon?

43.1.5.6 >50

Hmm, 'make up your mind what you want and go for it'?

And that 50 - don't you love it when hexagrams reappear?

Sorry, just trying to learn about how the Yi guides us in the light of what's happened.

 

[ginnie]

43.1.5.6 > 50

H50 is the Cauldron, the process of cooking up all your resources and abilities as if they were ingredients with which to make something worthwhile. This is your goal.

43.1 zha 44. Says you are a decisive person but too hasty in action. This quality of hastiness leads to mistakes and because of this you sometimes fail to achieve what you set out to do. This may be referring back to your interview, Ann, because H44 means Going to Meet.

43.5.6. I think of these two lines going together, because 43.5 is the leader in charge of removing the yin weakness, while 43.6 is the yin weakness. Because they are so close to each other, removing the yin weakness will therefore be very difficult.

What does this mean?

H43 speaks of deciding things in our own minds and making announcements but it is also the hexagram that tells us that in order to remove evils from the world, first we must work on ourselves and remove the evils from ourselves. This is the correct way to remove evils.

What does it mean: "evils?" or "yin weakness?"

That is a very individual matter. It means our own shortcomings, bad habits, and patterns of mental negativity, whatever they happen to be. We all need to be aware of our own shortcomings and have the humility to accept them or correct them.

43.5 refers to a plant. It's like spinach: low to the ground and filled with water. Hard to grab and pull out of the ground at the roots. Yet that is the task: to uproot the 'spinach' or 'weeds' completely. If you've ever been down on your knees weeding a garden or a lawn, you'll understand the difficulty of this.

The thing is that when the top yin changes, the whole configuration changes to H1, the Creative. This in my experience can mean two things.

The first thing it can mean is that it is very difficult to remove that top yin completely, because just as it is about to be removed, it gets really strong. The lesson is to never underestimate the power of our own shortcomings and bad mental habits, because they certainly do not want to be removed.

The second thing that 43.6 > 1 can mean is that through the use of the Creative Forces, we shall overcome the yin weaknesses in our situation. When I say 'through the use of the Creative Forces,' I mean that we'll learn how to control our own thoughts and bad habits by the use of a disciplined practice, like a yoga or meditation practice.

You were asking about finding employment soon. Yi's response really seems to say to keep working on yourself to overcome any and all bad mental habits which are like weeds wrapped around your head that keep you from succeeding in life. And really watch out for acting in too great haste or leaping in with both feet, which is sort of like attacking the situation, which this hexagram strongly advises against.

If I were you, I'd read the text under Hexagram 50, the Cauldron, too. Maybe Yi is referring to a greater deal than just finding work soon.

In writing this post, I find I'm moving back and forth between different levels of reality and different types of vocabulary. Sorry if it comes out sounding so awkward. In conclusion, I think you were asking a rather general question, and the Yi responded with a rather general answer -- but a profound answer, because Yi is nothing if not profound.

 

[Leracy]

Doesn't sound awkward at all Ginnie - really interesting and especially the way you look at the changing lines. I wouldn't have thought of all of that. I am doing a LOT of work on my own mental attitudes, and although I'm quite sure that this job would not have suited me at all, and that not getting it is the right outcome, the positive outcome is that I've learned a lot about what I need to do to get back to work in a job that I enjoy and where I can make a really positive and happy contribution. I honestly don't think I could have done that in this position - I would have been stifled.

So the 50 makes a lot of sense.

Can't thank you enough for all the interest you have taken and your generosity in your posts.

 

[ginnie]

You're welcome, Ann!