Clarity,
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Which statement is most true for you?
The Yijing has helped to shape my personal philosophy.
The Yijing’s philosophy has helped to shape me.
IMO, one doesn't exclude the other, on the contrary. For me both are true.
Which statement is most true for you?
The Yijing has helped to shape my personal philosophy.
The Yijing’s philosophy has helped to shape me.
What I like so much about the Yi is that the content of history is so big. The deposit of hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years and many intelligent minds. History not in a sense of battles and famines, the way you learn history in school, but as a vessel filled with everyday experiences, from cooking meals to sowing fields, and of course battles and hunts and famines as well, but all in the proportions in which they actually happened.
LiSe
But Meng's question is which one is MOST true.
And, while they might not be mutually exclusive, they show a quite different picture.
In the first statement you make your own philosophy, it's a personal 'thing'.
In the second statement you imply that the Yi has a philosophy and that you 'follow' it.
I don't remember if we were also discussing ethics in this thread but I do suscribe to the notion that there are no ethics inherent in the Yi. The Yi is a mirror that simply reflects what it sees. It doesn't tell you what to do any more that it tells you what to think.
If you want it to be a philosophy and a code of ethics, it gets a bit too close to a religion for my taste.
Great article Luis,
That explains a lot to me. I myself subscribe very much to history is the basis for predicting and knowing the future.
But Meng's question is which one is MOST true.
I don't remember if we were also discussing ethics in this thread but I do suscribe to the notion that there are no ethics inherent in the Yi. The Yi is a mirror that simply reflects what it sees. It doesn't tell you what to do any more that it tells you what to think.
There are no degrees of 'truth' but 'truth'. The moment 'truth' is mentioned it immediately offers a dichotomy, an exclusion. There are only opposites of "truth," just as "is" has "isn't". When I say that for me both are true I simply mean that. I see no dichotomy in the two options. Both apply because both are true to what I feel the Yi is.
Since you mentioned "religion"--although "dogma" would be a better choice of words--, it is that, of any kind, which is fed by fabricated, so called "truths," offering only exclusion in return.
So, in that mirror that is the Yi, you don't see a discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation? I do.
Ethics has nothing to do with religion. Religion has to do with "God(s, dess, etc.)", which isn't the case with the Yi nor it would ever be. On the other hand, unless one is a sociopath, what's good and bad, on a daily basis, is easily recognized and there shouldn't be a need to question oneself "what would (fill the blank with deity of choice) do?"
When I brought up the character of the Junzi is because I believe that, if any philosophy is to be found in the Yi, the most obvious place to find examples of it would be in its actions. If the Yijing is a mirror, it is in the archetypical image of the Junzi that we will most likely identify ourselves.
No, I don't see a discipline that deals with what is 'good' and 'bad'.
Good and Bad are terribly subjective idea, IMO. If the Yi reflects what "is" it doesn't mean it needs to pass judgement on it.
I think I saw a list in this thread earlier and I was a bit puzzled. Where exactly does it say that one should 'stay away from inferior people'? Or "prefer good over evil"?? or even "good will always triumph"?
I think we read these things in the Yi because we are so used to there being good and evil and there being a right way and a wrong way and a 'path', some of us spend our lives looking for the darn path so hard that we forget to walk. But that's just us. Our projection. Nature, which is kind of how I see the Yi, just *is*.
From the purely logical pov, they are not mutually exclusive but I think that the spirit in which he posted them they are meant to be alternatives.
If both are equally true for you, questions for you and topal (and anybody for whom they are both equally true): how does your personal philosophy differ from that of the Yi?
I do strive though to keep on track with what "I" see reflected in the Yi, which is demanding enough. Obviously, that is something different from what you see or anybody else. Even those that may agree with my POV. And "that" is the beauty of the Yijing.
what's good and bad, on a daily basis, is easily recognized
This good/bad thing is, to me, an overly simplistic way of looking at, not only the Yi, but the world.To do the maximum to further/promote life, with minimum damage/hurt.
That seems a bit odd to me. That it has a philosophy but it's not the same for everybody.
I'd say it sounds like it doesn't have a philosophy.
So, who are 'inferior people'? The noisy neighbor, the loveless lover, the evil stepmother???
Harsh.
So, again I come to the picture of ethics as individual character traits, as well as collective traits of the species, What still remains lacking in this picture is the sort of heaven's mandate which is scripted out, note for bloody note. But, then again, maybe for someone else, that is a very nice picture! I remain pretty convinced, there is no "almighty" ethical value, only different philosophical views, based on ones own experience of it.
Actually, I agree with most of what you said above. And no, there is no Mandate of Heaven or Almighty's word in the Yi. I still sustain though that there is a recognizable behavioral pattern that can well be called ethics or, at the very least, a precursor of what can unmistakable be called as such. And "ethics," by definition of the word, is a branch of philosophy. I only pointed to where in the Yi examples of such behavior can be found.
Not sure if this is already ethics or 'philosophy' (whatever that means), perhaps it's pre-ethical and pre-philosophical, but there are a few things that I can say about the junzi, I think.
- The junzi has a 'thoughtful' approach to life. He thinks and observes before he acts. He doesn't run blindly after every whim or impulse.
- The junzi strives to do what is best.
- The junzi understands that what is best depends on circumstances. He understands that what is good or wise in one situation may be not so good or unwise in another situation.
- The junzi does not only strive to do what is best for himself. He has a wider view and takes the needs of others into consideration.
Agree?
YES ... exactly 64 different hexagrams are needed to explain everythingIs all and everything contained in 64 hexagrams?
Hey, maybe now we can indulge the meaning of religious. *snickers*
'Shall we do Yi tonight, my cute little dragon? '
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).