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Why are you ?
- Thread starter portakal
- Start date
I am of the belief that it is pontless to ask such a question of the Yi - it is an unanswerable question - as much as if I were to ask the Yi "who is Portakal". 'You' cannot be summed up and explained by some lines in a hexagram. You may find something of the nature of Yi by interacting with it, as you would if it were me or any other being, but you could not know why I am, he is, she is, or Yi is. Therefore I think the answer you have is meaningless. We could all ask this question and get a different answer. You may as well ask "why is that tree" or "why is that lamp post". Furthermore when so called 'big questions' are asked it is apparent people make them mean anything they want to - the questions so amorphous make the answer so
Thank you.
1. it is an unanswerable question
2. ...cannot be summed up and explained by some lines in a hexagram
3. ..you could not know why ...
4. the answer you have is meaningless
5. the questions so amorphous make the answer so
While i admit the light of rational zeal in the above, in the general sense i dont think so.
1. you take it as a given fact that the querent cannot be satisfied by the Yi and yi cannot answer the querent, and we are dealing with overphysics here...
2. if "big" questions cannot be summed up in 6 lines, how does "small" questions get replied to in 6 lines ? Is it small enough to ask "what should i do about her tomorrow" ? What's the degree of size ?
3. "the answer you got is meaningless", did you come to this conclusion by evaluating the answer or your pre-judgments (sorry to ask) ?
Not many talk from the heart here, i am very sorry to see, there are friends, groups, some people trying hard to stay nice, which is very encouraging but not much music from the heart...
Here, of all those places...
See you.
1. it is an unanswerable question
2. ...cannot be summed up and explained by some lines in a hexagram
3. ..you could not know why ...
4. the answer you have is meaningless
5. the questions so amorphous make the answer so
While i admit the light of rational zeal in the above, in the general sense i dont think so.
1. you take it as a given fact that the querent cannot be satisfied by the Yi and yi cannot answer the querent, and we are dealing with overphysics here...
2. if "big" questions cannot be summed up in 6 lines, how does "small" questions get replied to in 6 lines ? Is it small enough to ask "what should i do about her tomorrow" ? What's the degree of size ?
3. "the answer you got is meaningless", did you come to this conclusion by evaluating the answer or your pre-judgments (sorry to ask) ?
Not many talk from the heart here, i am very sorry to see, there are friends, groups, some people trying hard to stay nice, which is very encouraging but not much music from the heart...
Here, of all those places...
See you.
C
cheiron
Guest
Dear Portakal
I struggled with your question and the Yi's response and asked the Yijing many questions to clarify... Still I perceived little and so remained silent.
As for comming from ones heart etc... Your comments are true... but I hope you also find those times when people here do come from that place.
I liked your last post...
Respectfully
--Kevin
I struggled with your question and the Yi's response and asked the Yijing many questions to clarify... Still I perceived little and so remained silent.
As for comming from ones heart etc... Your comments are true... but I hope you also find those times when people here do come from that place.
I liked your last post...
Respectfully
--Kevin
D
dharma
Guest
Portakal,
i did not agree with Anon99's assessment either. being quite aware of your adeptness for expressing yourself well and to the point, i awaited your response and i was not disappointed
but to leave now when you've only just arrived - that would be a true disappointment
today you do not feel patient. that's okay. today the lack of heart is glaringly obvious and your patience limited
but it won't always be thus...
tomorrow, and the tomorrow after that... all things change... you too will change
as we each find the patience to bring more heart where it is glaringly missing, we will meet again
yes? yes
i did not agree with Anon99's assessment either. being quite aware of your adeptness for expressing yourself well and to the point, i awaited your response and i was not disappointed
but to leave now when you've only just arrived - that would be a true disappointment
today you do not feel patient. that's okay. today the lack of heart is glaringly obvious and your patience limited
but it won't always be thus...
tomorrow, and the tomorrow after that... all things change... you too will change
as we each find the patience to bring more heart where it is glaringly missing, we will meet again
yes? yes
C
cheiron
Guest
Yup, Dharma... I agree
Portakal
I think it must take great effort for you to work in english.
I guess you keep it short and let hexagrams speak for you.
Earlier I was in error in applying complex inference to you...
Oh, Language!
Some of the things you have said and some of your approaches have been very refreshing.
Yup, I hear impatience too...
... No? - No problem.
Or is that more language barrier.
Hope you stick arround... I do 'difficult' (grin)
--Kevin
Portakal
I think it must take great effort for you to work in english.
I guess you keep it short and let hexagrams speak for you.
Earlier I was in error in applying complex inference to you...
Oh, Language!
Some of the things you have said and some of your approaches have been very refreshing.
Yup, I hear impatience too...
Or is that more language barrier.
Hope you stick arround... I do 'difficult' (grin)
--Kevin
Portakal -
An interpretation:
34.3 - Don't continue asking (the Yi) questions about itself like you are doing (at least for now). For whatever reasons, it's not appropriate and possibly even dangerous.
Seems to me it's trying to tell you that you didn't take the hint when you asked "Who are you" and it said "retreat".
34.2 - Don't worry *too* much about the 34.3 answer, keep asking about other things and the Yi will keep helping/answering you.
That's how I would interpret your answers.
Anon99 -
"Furthermore when so called 'big questions' are asked it is apparent people make them mean anything they want to..."
Isn't that true of just about any source for "big questions"? Take the bible..
Nice people hear "love thy neighbor." Angry people hear "punish the wicked." Authoritarians hear "spare the rod and spoil the child." Etc...
So, it seems we're no better/worse off with the Yi than any other information source, except perhaps that the Yi is more interactive than many others.
- Jeff
An interpretation:
34.3 - Don't continue asking (the Yi) questions about itself like you are doing (at least for now). For whatever reasons, it's not appropriate and possibly even dangerous.
Seems to me it's trying to tell you that you didn't take the hint when you asked "Who are you" and it said "retreat".
34.2 - Don't worry *too* much about the 34.3 answer, keep asking about other things and the Yi will keep helping/answering you.
That's how I would interpret your answers.
Anon99 -
"Furthermore when so called 'big questions' are asked it is apparent people make them mean anything they want to..."
Isn't that true of just about any source for "big questions"? Take the bible..
Nice people hear "love thy neighbor." Angry people hear "punish the wicked." Authoritarians hear "spare the rod and spoil the child." Etc...
So, it seems we're no better/worse off with the Yi than any other information source, except perhaps that the Yi is more interactive than many others.
- Jeff
T
tashij
Guest
i've been educated but i still cant speak.
T
tashij
Guest
portakal you asked and were answerted with thunder and earthquakes. it is a great moment of expression. you are like king lear, asking the big questions and the force of nature responding. 'blow winds blow'. the yi responded in full force. it must be a great atmosphere in your abode. maybe you will know the answer when the shaking has gone thru your system.
T
tashij
Guest
"Blow, winds, and crack your cheeks! rage! blow!
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drench'd our steeples, drown'd the cocks!
You sulphurous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Smite flat the thick rotundity o' the world!
Crack nature's moulds, and germens spill at once,
That make ingrateful man!"
just for the beauty of it. king lear.
You cataracts and hurricanoes, spout
Till you have drench'd our steeples, drown'd the cocks!
You sulphurous and thought-executing fires,
Vaunt-couriers to oak-cleaving thunderbolts,
Singe my white head! And thou, all-shaking thunder,
Smite flat the thick rotundity o' the world!
Crack nature's moulds, and germens spill at once,
That make ingrateful man!"
just for the beauty of it. king lear.
Jte;
I admit that your interpretation sounds, seems and tastes right.
Looking back i sense it was as you said, not because i believe easily in anything but because i got stressed and suggested (did not ask !) "You are." Yi said 27->12, "keep your mouth tranquil" openly but delicately.
I feel in another phase now and am talking these things out for other courageous newcomers like me, not as a precaution but as a direct and heavy experience-set.
Dear Tashij;
Yes, it is showing off force, now coming to think of it. Not against me but for me in spite of me. The gala is going to echo, it seems.
I admit that your interpretation sounds, seems and tastes right.
Looking back i sense it was as you said, not because i believe easily in anything but because i got stressed and suggested (did not ask !) "You are." Yi said 27->12, "keep your mouth tranquil" openly but delicately.
I feel in another phase now and am talking these things out for other courageous newcomers like me, not as a precaution but as a direct and heavy experience-set.
Dear Tashij;
Yes, it is showing off force, now coming to think of it. Not against me but for me in spite of me. The gala is going to echo, it seems.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 1970
- Messages
- 3,128
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- 207
Your answer from the Yi sounds very much like what I use the Yi for: to use my strength in the right way (34) in order to to make changes (51) in my life.
Knowing when and how to use strength, to summon it, to handle it in myself and others. All with the purpose of refreshing everything, making it new and vigorous.
LiSe
Knowing when and how to use strength, to summon it, to handle it in myself and others. All with the purpose of refreshing everything, making it new and vigorous.
LiSe
My ancestors have harassed the Chinese for 2 thousand years, raiding night and day, guided by shamans, guile and fuzziness is too Greco-Chinese for me, if you know what i mean.
So, [this is live action from my desktop] do you mean, "portakal back off and watch your mouth" or
do you mean " i am a certain great strenght to help you", please ? (22:25 p.m)
31 (4) -> 39
Universal influence:
If a man is agitated in mind,
<FONT COLOR="ff0000">And his thoughts go hither and thither,Only those friends On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts Will follow.</FONT>
Here the place of the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">heart</FONT> is reached. The impulse that springs from this source is the most important of all. It is of particular concern that this influence be constant and good; then, in spite of the danger arising from the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">great susceptibility of the human heart</FONT>, there will be no cause for remorse.
39 : The hexagram represents <FONT COLOR="ff0000">obstructions</FONT>that appear in the course of time but that can and should be overcome.
Result: I am, because i am an universal influence, there are obstacles between us, so dont ask too big questions yet.
22:43 p.m.
So, [this is live action from my desktop] do you mean, "portakal back off and watch your mouth" or
do you mean " i am a certain great strenght to help you", please ? (22:25 p.m)
31 (4) -> 39
Universal influence:
If a man is agitated in mind,
<FONT COLOR="ff0000">And his thoughts go hither and thither,Only those friends On whom he fixes his conscious thoughts Will follow.</FONT>
Here the place of the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">heart</FONT> is reached. The impulse that springs from this source is the most important of all. It is of particular concern that this influence be constant and good; then, in spite of the danger arising from the <FONT COLOR="ff0000">great susceptibility of the human heart</FONT>, there will be no cause for remorse.
39 : The hexagram represents <FONT COLOR="ff0000">obstructions</FONT>that appear in the course of time but that can and should be overcome.
Result: I am, because i am an universal influence, there are obstacles between us, so dont ask too big questions yet.
22:43 p.m.
lenardthefast
visitor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 1971
- Messages
- 410
- Reaction score
- 1
Hi Portakal,
Soooo true, my friend.
Namaste,
Leonard
Soooo true, my friend.
Namaste,
Leonard
C
candid
Guest
Why not ask Yi big questions? Even if we don't understand all the answers it gives us something worthwhile to think about.
If we ask out of our folly, good! What child ever learned anything without the spark of curiosity? Why is the sky blue, Daddy? How far do the stars go? Is there a God? Why does Mommy cry, Daddy? Do angels really fly?
Who said suffer not the children to come to me? It could have been Yi. And who is not a child?
If we ask out of our folly, good! What child ever learned anything without the spark of curiosity? Why is the sky blue, Daddy? How far do the stars go? Is there a God? Why does Mommy cry, Daddy? Do angels really fly?
Who said suffer not the children to come to me? It could have been Yi. And who is not a child?
D
dharma
Guest
indeed Candid, inDEEd!!
C
candid
Guest
I'd say that you got your answer to the question you asked. That shouldn't (and won't) stop you from asking other things - kind of the point of line 2.
That said, I'd look carefully at the answers you get in further questions and try to decide what the message is - is it an *answer* or maybe advice in how to approach these things.
As several people have pointed out in recent threads, you develop a sort of relationship with the Yi over time. Cultivating that, I think, might lead you to answers to questions you never would have thought to ask.
Keep on keeping on...
- Jeff
That said, I'd look carefully at the answers you get in further questions and try to decide what the message is - is it an *answer* or maybe advice in how to approach these things.
As several people have pointed out in recent threads, you develop a sort of relationship with the Yi over time. Cultivating that, I think, might lead you to answers to questions you never would have thought to ask.
Keep on keeping on...
- Jeff
C
cheiron
Guest
Hi folks
Pennies worth...
Val's qustion on euthanasia and the Yi's answer gave me quite a jolt.
I felt there was a very clear answer there about rebirth and the nature of death.
When I asked about 'asking great questions' the Yi was not very interested... Perhaps 'need to know' is a factor too?
--Kevin
Pennies worth...
Val's qustion on euthanasia and the Yi's answer gave me quite a jolt.
I felt there was a very clear answer there about rebirth and the nature of death.
When I asked about 'asking great questions' the Yi was not very interested... Perhaps 'need to know' is a factor too?
--Kevin
C
cheiron
Guest
Hi Portakal
I love it...
--Kevin
PS - Crossed posts - The moon that is - Chimp is a little freaky - chuckles
I love it...
--Kevin
PS - Crossed posts - The moon that is - Chimp is a little freaky - chuckles
Kevin -
"Val's qustion on euthynasia and the Yi's answer gave me quite a jolt. ... "
Yes, it did seem to making quite a statement there. I would guess that having a real reason and context for an important question helps a lot. I think sincerity in the questioner is important.
Val - Apologies for discussing this analytically. I agree with Kevin that that reading was very moving. I read it and understood, but then the impact of it sank in the next day.
Some readings stick with you longer than others and I'm sure you'll remember that one for a long time indeed. I hope it gives you comfort on an ongoing basis.
- Jeff
"Val's qustion on euthynasia and the Yi's answer gave me quite a jolt. ... "
Yes, it did seem to making quite a statement there. I would guess that having a real reason and context for an important question helps a lot. I think sincerity in the questioner is important.
Val - Apologies for discussing this analytically. I agree with Kevin that that reading was very moving. I read it and understood, but then the impact of it sank in the next day.
Some readings stick with you longer than others and I'm sure you'll remember that one for a long time indeed. I hope it gives you comfort on an ongoing basis.
- Jeff
C
cheiron
Guest
Hi Jeff
Ah, yes, sincerity... always that.
--Kevin
Ah, yes, sincerity... always that.
--Kevin
cal val
visitor
- Joined
- Apr 30, 1971
- Messages
- 1,507
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- 20
Kevin and Jeff...
I'm not ignoring your posts. I will respond later... I can't right now. Too painful to think about still.
Thank you.
Love,
Val
I'm not ignoring your posts. I will respond later... I can't right now. Too painful to think about still.
Thank you.
Love,
Val