Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Structural Mathmatics of The I Ching

  1. #1

    Default Structural Mathmatics of The I Ching

    I am not sure if this is an actual term, but I was wonding about the Structural Mathmatics of the I Ching.

    Mainly I am wondering about how the 64 hexagrams cames about.
    Is it because 1 is Heaven and 2 is Earth?
    I feel like I have heard that before.


    Here is what is in my head as far as how 64 hexagrams cames to be (Starting at the bottom and using 6 for the 6 lines of a hexagram).

    32x2 = 64
    16x2 = 32
    8x2 = 16
    4x2 = 8
    2x2 = 4
    1x2 = 2

    So I guess I have 2 more questions, IF this is how I should be looking at how the 64 are formed...

    1. Why 6?
    2. Why multiply by 2?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    southwest mountains of Colorado
    Posts
    2,081

    Default

    There is half of a structure but no mathematics to the King Wen arrangement.
    There is a set of geometrical properties that is present throughout Yijing, and all of the relevant dimensions of the Yijing have a geometry.
    The study of this is known as Xiangshu Jia, Image and Number School.
    The Primal or Early Heaven arrangement is purely mathematical, and perfectly geometrical, but this did not come about until ten centuries ago..

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 1970
    Location
    Wyse Fork, NC
    Posts
    3,524

    Default

    How it originated and how it may be interpreted are different questions. For origin, I like LiSe's idea about the guibiao:

    http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/origins...ua/gui-gua.htm
    the origin of the hexagrams?? Playing with an idea

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chico, California
    Posts
    98

    Default

    Why multiply by 2? This is the easy one; each line has two possibilities (solid or broken), so the number of gua has to be two to the power of the number of lines.

    Why 6? This may ultimately be arbitrary. Richard Rutt (something of a heretic to some) says there is evidence that the hexagrams may have originally been pentagrams. And there are a number of hexagrams in which one of the lines seems to have little to do with the other five. At some point, someone wanted more possibilities, and so added a sixth line, doubling the number of gua from 32 to 64. This could go on forever, but becomes impractical at some point; 64 (2^6) has stood the test of time.

    The pentagram theory depends on a feature of the line statements of fifteen hexagrams (1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 13, 15, 18, 27, 31, 33, 36, 56, 58, and 59), where a key word or theme occurs in only five of the statements. In Hexagram 36 ‘Crying pheasant’, for instance, the word for ‘crying pheasant’ occurs in only five lines. The sixth line statement seems to be an intrusion and may be a later addition. When the intrusion is removed from each of the fifteen, the resulting pentagram drawings are all different from each other.
    —Richard Rutt, Zhouyi (2007, p.96)
    p.s. The pentagram idea is consistent with the idea that the complete gua are historically primary, and the trigrams are a later addition. I myself don’t pay as much attention to the trigrams as some people do.

    —Russell

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to russell For This Useful Post:

    elias (April 26th, 2011)

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 1970
    Location
    Wyse Fork, NC
    Posts
    3,524

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by russell View Post
    The pentagram idea is consistent with the idea that the complete gua are historically primary, and the trigrams are a later addition.
    Couldn't the pentagram theory be chance occurrence rather than deliberate design? For example, the "key word or theme" may occur from zero to six times. Are there occasions where it occurs two or three times? To sort all this out is a bit of trouble, and one would have to look for repetition of Chinese characters.

  7. #6

    Default

    What I get:

    Duality symbolized:
    ___
    _ _

    The interation of those 2 symbolized in all possibilities:

    ___
    ___

    _ _
    _ _

    ___
    _ _

    _ _
    ___

    What I do not get:

    Why didn't the structure then go from the interacting of those possibilities creating Quadgrams?


    Thanks for everyone's input thus far.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bradford View Post
    The study of this is known as Xiangshu Jia, Image and Number School.
    Hi bradford
    I typed Xiangshu Jia in google and am not getting anything good.
    Let me know if you know of any specific books on the subject.

  9. #8

    Default

    Sorry... another post...

    How (Why) does

    ___
    ___

    become Heaven

    ___
    ___
    ___

    ??

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    southwest mountains of Colorado
    Posts
    2,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pocossin View Post
    Couldn't the pentagram theory be chance occurrence rather than deliberate design? For example, the "key word or theme" may occur from zero to six times. Are there occasions where it occurs two or three times? To sort all this out is a bit of trouble, and one would have to look for repetition of Chinese characters.
    It is in the use of Chinese characters, particularly reiteratives, that Rutt's pentagram theory is shown to be incorrect and the early existence of Trigrams, in pairs, is vindicated. This is not to say that Trigrams are primary, only that they were acknowledged within the Hexagrams when the text was written. It is also Not to say that most of the meanings for the Trigrams, as found in the Shuo Gua, were fully developed when the Zhouyi was written.

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to bradford For This Useful Post:

    elias (April 26th, 2011), heylise (April 21st, 2011), pocossin (April 22nd, 2011), sparhawk (April 21st, 2011)

  12. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    southwest mountains of Colorado
    Posts
    2,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by answeredquestions View Post
    Hi bradford
    I typed Xiangshu Jia in google and am not getting anything good.
    Let me know if you know of any specific books on the subject.
    This is a huge field and it will be easy to get overwhelmed.
    And to uncover big steaming piles of doodoo.
    There is a good but very expensive book by Bent Nielsen, A Companion to Yi Jing Numerology. See intro at Google Books.
    Also a doctoral thesis available at UMI through your library, by George Fendos Jr. “Fei Chih’s Place in the Development of I-Ching Studies.” Ph.D. dissertation in Chinese Studies: University of Wisconsin, Madison, WI: 1988.
    Both are very technical.
    But I would of course recommend starting with my own Dimensions chapter in Volume 2
    (free download) at the link below.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to bradford For This Useful Post:

    answeredquestions (April 21st, 2011)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •