Fonts !

Trojina · Jan 5, 2014

Since the upgrade of this site I have great difficulty reading long posts since there are no paragraphs...all I see is one big chunk of tightly packed text. Trying to read these is really hard and uncomfortable. That is the reason I put my own longer posts in other fonts as then I seem to get proper paragraph spacing.

Checked with Hilary and the reason appears to be down the fact I have Internet Explorer as my browser. Apparently IE is not seeing spaces where there are spaces. If no one else has this problem Hilary seems to think I should just change my browser but I don't much want to. There is a problem on something called the 'style sheet' on Clarity that gives IE users this problem. But it's a lot of trouble to fix so Hilary won't do it if it's just for me.

Does anyone else have this problem ?

Also would someone post a few things in other fonts so I can check if I can see paragraph spacing in other fonts. seems to work for me.

I'm getting really tired of this forum giving me migraine

Trojina · Jan 5, 2014

Also Hilary thinks I am the only IE user left in the world.

Is this true ?

I use IE because after experimenting with others I found lots of irritating issues...pop up ads, other things.

IE just seems more straight forward to me.

If anyone would care to offer me browser guidance I will take it. What's best ?

I want to keep using IE but this forum won't let me ! :hissy:

sooo · Jan 5, 2014

My IE just keeps moving slower as my Firefox keeps improving its speed. Plus Firefox has spell check, which comes in handy for illiterates like me. So I use IE to check the weather and broad astrology notes each morning. Firefox does the rest of my browsing. FF used to look rough and a bit raggedy by comparison to IE but they've cleaned up a lot.

dragona · Jan 5, 2014

trojan said:
If anyone would care to offer me browser guidance I will take it. What's best ?

The one you like the best is the best one for you.

I think it is an aesthetic question, how one shapes the visuals of the text.
I also skip those big bulks of text, I figure if I can write and then edit a bit, everyone can. :mischief:

oh right....fonts, fonts, fonts and more fonts !!!

sooo · Jan 5, 2014

testingonetwothreefourfivesixsixseveneightnineteneleventwelveetcetc

with FF

Trojina · Jan 5, 2014

Thanks yes I see different fonts....I just wonder if a whole post was in another font to the set forum one I'd see proper paragraphs with gaps. Spaces between paragraphs don't matter so much with shorter posts, but with longer ones it makes reading so hard....

Maybe I will try firefox again. tried it before and stopped using it due to some annoyances I can't recall now.

I also skip those big bulks of text, I figure if I can write and then edit a bit, everyone can.

Yes up to a few days ago I thought everyone was just writing big blocks of text....then checked with Hilary and it seems others don't see this, others see spaced paragraphs. Only IE users see these big blocks of text. Up till then I was thinking people just weren't bothering.

I can't get paragraphs at all in IE unless I switch to another font.

Well at least I'm explaining why I use these weird fancy fonts

anemos · Jan 5, 2014

trojan said:
Also Hilary thinks I am the only IE user left in the world.

Is this true ?

I use IE because after experimenting with others I found lots of irritating issues...pop up ads, other things.

not really; you are two. My brother use it too.

try also Google chrome. Very fast and handy.

dragona · Jan 5, 2014

"Yes up to a few days ago I thought everyone was just writing big blocks of text....then checked with Hilary and it seems others don't see this, others see spaced paragraphs."
I use firefox for a long time now and still see bulks when they are being written as such so it has to do with editing, IMO.

"I just wonder if a whole post was in another font to the set forum "
Yes, maam, this one is.

Trojina · Jan 5, 2014

okay Dragona, I see your post as having no spaces between the lines. Did you put spaces in ?

I needed to check if others wrote a longer post with paragraphs in another font if I'd see spaces.

The problem I have is not to do with editing, because if I use another browsers I see paragraphs perfectly, so Hilary and I have confirmed the problem is due to the browser. People are editing and using spaces but people who are viewing with IE don't see spaces between paragraphs.

I mean yes sometimes people just write in big chunks but when I swap to another browser I see spaces I can't see with IE

I think I may have to live with this

I guess I can cope.

not really; you are two. My brother use it too.

try also Google chrome. Very fast and handy.

Ah so it's just me and your brother :rofl:

maybe he could pressure Hilary into fixing it ?

Google chrome was giving me lots of pop up ads but is probably much faster

sooo · Jan 6, 2014

hmm, I just opened the forum using IE and I see separated paragraphs and various fonts the same as on FF.

iams girl · Jan 6, 2014

Hi Trojan,

I have the same problem with IE as well, plan to keep IE, and agree the situation is highly annoying. I also have to change to a different font when I want real paragraphs to show.

Here's a new paragraph using the Clarity default font and as you can see, everything including the salutation above is munged up together, a total pain to read, and it would be nice if Hilary would reconsider fixing it.
-
I did recently realize I could get around the issue by putting a single character in between paragraphs (as shown above and below) when I don't feel like going through the hassle of changing of the font and font size. However, again, it really would be better if it worked right.
-
Now here, in Verdana, size 2, to look almost like Clarity's default font, I won't change anything and the paragraphs, as seen below, will work fine, just like you said.

My old Win XP computer wouldn't let me upgrade to a newer version of IE, so I added Mozilla for when I needed things to go a little faster. However, for whatever reason, there was something about the browsing features of Mozilla that just drove me crazy sometimes. I tried Google Chrome too for awhile and can't remember why I decided to delete it, but it had grown bad, bad computer tentacles which took hours and hours to remove, so would never use that again either.

Then, a few months back, I had to buy a whole new computer and although I had to go through changing to WIN 8.1 woes which required tech support (and again lots of time plus downloads to revert it back to the way it looked and worked before), long story short, I am much, much happier having IE 11 now. Fast, clean, smooth, I wouldn't change it for anything (well, it would take a lot anyway) and btw it does have automatic spell check on posts when I type.

Best regards,

Iams

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

This is what I see using google chrome.

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

trojan said:
Ah so it's just me and your brother maybe he could pressure Hilary into fixing it ?

wil ask him, lol . IE users unite!!!!

I told him the other day what Hilary told you. He uses my computer in the morning to replace me and first thing I do when arrive is close IE and open chrome. I really don't understand why he uses it as we have to work in an online program for work related purposes and IE gives troubles.

Trojina · Jan 6, 2014

Anemos, that's what I see using Google Chrome too but I don't want to change to Google Chrome especially since Iams Girl has the same problem as me.

iams girl · Jan 6, 2014

anemos said:
This is what I see using google chrome.

-
Nice,

!

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

trojan said:
Anemos, that's what I see using Google Chrome too but I don't want to change to Google Chrome especially since Iams Girl has the same problem as me.

Maybe there is a way to change setting on IE. Joking aside there are many people using IE. maybe they have "correct " it as it seems the lose a big part of the market .

Hope Hilary can find a solution. I wouldn't be happy If i had to change my browser either.

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

iams girl said:
-
Nice, !

Trojina · Jan 6, 2014

Maybe there is a way to change setting on IE. Joking aside there are many people using IE. maybe they have "correct " it as it seems the lose a big part of the market .

Hope Hilary can find a solution. I wouldn't be happy If i had to change my browser either.

Hilary says the problem is her 'style sheet' here which interprets double spaces, using IE, as single spaces. So she has admitted :mischief:

that the fault lies with Clarity's style sheet doing something with IE browsers.

So far there is me, Iams girl and your brother. I think we have the core of an uprising !

Trojina · Jan 6, 2014

Meantime whilst waiting for more rebel IE users to join our band and march on Hilary I shall try to find the most ridiculous font to use.....as protest

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

we are living h49 times

[video=youtube;LonKGuS9uuQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LonKGuS9uuQ[/video]

Trojina · Jan 6, 2014

we shall overcome

anemos · Jan 6, 2014

hilary · Jan 6, 2014

Well, I have submitted a ticket to Vbulletin tech support describing the problem. Remembering my most recent experience with them

rant

, I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath for anything useful, but it's worth a try.

If they don't come up with a solution, would anyone like to volunteer to fix this? Or to track down an affordable techie who can fix it? So far I can tell you that the problem lies in IE's interpretation of

Code:

<blockquote><br><br></blockquote>

as

Code:

<blockquote><br></blockquote>

when some specific Vbulletin-generated styling is applied. (I think it must be Vb-specific as the problem doesn't occur elsewhere in the site.) The reason it works when you change font is that this inserts a span tag inside the blockquote to set the new font - as you can see if you view source and search for 'old winxp' as that's a post with paragraphs in Verdana - and within the span, the linebreaks are interpreted normally.

So finding a fix would - as best I can guess - go something like this:

save a forum page with its stylesheets locally
identify all the styles/classes that apply to the post 'blockquote'
locate each style in stylesheets…
...and scan through everything it does in search of anything that looks like a candidate.
For each of these candidates in turn: edit it in your local copy of the stylesheet
view the page in IE and then in Chrome, Firefox and Safari (and I suppose a Mac simulator wouldn't be a bad idea either) to see the effect
if you find something that fixes the line spacing in IE and doesn't mangle other things beyond recognition, locate the Vbulletin admin section that allows you to edit the relevant stylesheet (I'm pretty sure you have to do it this way for the changes to stick; you can't just edit the files direct) and make the change
view the forum to see what effect this change has on live pages - not just forum pages, but private messaging, search results, everything - and quite possibly find some unutterable disaster and repeat steps 1-7 to try to fix that.

It doesn't require any huge technical knowledge, though I dare say having a bit more would make steps 4 and 5 a bit less 'trial and error'. It does require time - impossible to say how long. It might be quite quick and easy...

Well, let's see if Vbulletin come up with anything. If they don't - is anyone here css-literate?

Trojina · Jan 7, 2014

I thought vbulletin were paid to upgrade the site. I may be wrong...it's all double dutch to me. But to my simplistic view if you paid them to upgrade the site and in upgrading they left IE users with a problem then it's their job to fix it or state that that IE users may have problems viewing this site.

Trojina · Jan 7, 2014

Maybe they could fix the duplicate post issue at the same time. There are more duplicate posts here than ever before and more people deleting duplicates. The reason is it takes so long for a post to post after pressing the 'submit' button we press 'submit' again thinking it hasn't functioned and then get the message "this is a duplicate ...please wait blah blah"

Doesn't bother me much, a minor snafu,,,,,but I reckon cumulatively their snafus add up. The IE viewing issue is worse. But as I said if IE is not compatible with this site then they need to say that don't they.

hilary · Jan 7, 2014

Reply from Vbulletin! They say:

This doesn't happen on a default installation.

Please try the following:

Please disable all plugins on your board and tell us if the problem persists.

To do this, edit your vBulletin config.php file currently on the server by adding the following line after the <?php line:

define('DISABLE_HOOKS', true);

Then reupload the config.php file into your forum's includes folder.

Now go to AdminCP > Style Manager
and create a new style with no parent.
Now browse your forum using this new style.

Do you still have the same problem?

Haven't done any of this yet - well, you don't need me to tell you that. Tomorrow, or Thursday. I will put up a warning notice first, as WikiWing will disappear for the duration, of course, and signup won't work, and I'm not sure whether login will... but I think I can resynchronise databases afterwards from Amember...

Duplicate posts? One thing at a time!

hilary · Jan 7, 2014

(I don't suppose for a moment this has anything to do with plugins, by the way. None of them rewrite the styling for the main forum. But if I don't do what they say, there will be no help from that quarter.)

Trojina · Jan 7, 2014

hilary said:
Reply from Vbulletin! They say:

Haven't done any of this yet - well, you don't need me to tell you that. Tomorrow, or Thursday. I will put up a warning notice first, as WikiWing will disappear for the duration, of course, and signup won't work, and I'm not sure whether login will... but I think I can resynchronise databases afterwards from Amember...

Duplicate posts? One thing at a time!

It doesn't sound like it's worth the bother so you may as well leave it and I'll have to use another browser for long posts. If it's only me and iams girl I suppose it's not worth dismantling the entire forum for. Iams girl may not agree with me though.

What I haven't yet ascertained is whether if you or anyone posts long posts in another font I will see proper paragraphs, If that is the case then if anyone wants us IE users to read their long posts can they just please do it another font to the forum one and that would solve the problem

I've been trying to get someone to put a long post in another font so I can see it. I don't think it worked with iams shorter post in another font.

Trojina · Jan 7, 2014

when some specific Vbulletin-generated styling is applied. (I think it must be Vb-specific as the problem doesn't occur elsewhere in the site.) The reason it works when you change font is that this inserts a span tag inside the blockquote to set the new font - as you can see if you view source and search for 'old winxp' as that's a post with paragraphs in Verdana - and within the span, the linebreaks are interpreted normally.

So finding a fix would - as best I can guess - go something like this:
1.save a forum page with its stylesheets locally
2.identify all the styles/classes that apply to the post 'blockquote'
3.locate each style in stylesheets…
4....and scan through everything it does in search of anything that looks like a candidate.
5.For each of these candidates in turn: edit it in your local copy of the stylesheet
6.view the page in IE and then in Chrome, Firefox and Safari (and I suppose a Mac simulator wouldn't be a bad idea either) to see the effect
7.if you find something that fixes the line spacing in IE and doesn't mangle other things beyond recognition, locate the Vbulletin admin section that allows you to edit the relevant stylesheet (I'm pretty sure you have to do it this way for the changes to stick; you can't just edit the files direct) and make the change
8.view the forum to see what effect this change has on live pages - not just forum pages, but private messaging, search results, everything - and quite possibly find some unutterable disaster and repeat steps 1-7 to try to fix that.

It doesn't require any huge technical knowledge, though I dare say having a bit more would make steps 4 and 5 a bit less 'trial and error'. It does require time - impossible to say how long. It might be quite quick and easy...

Well, let's see if Vbulletin come up with anything. If they don't - is anyone here css-literate?

like the above for example.....in the edit box where I just copied it to it has spaces but when posted to the forum it doesn't have.

So all I want is for someone to post a long post like that in another font to see if I can then see spaces. if I can then the problem is solved

Trojina · Jan 7, 2014

people misunderstood and just posted in other fonts.....yes I can see fonts it's spaces, paragraph spaces, any spaces, in longer posts I can't see.

Fonts !

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