Having loved so deeply myself I believe if I hadn't had the children to live for then I may have well definitely died of a broken heart.
My youngest son, has said on numerous occasions, that he's surprised I never killed myself with everything I've been through but particularly the break up of my marriage.
How lovely that the young woman wanted more answers and then the article was written.
Thanks for sharing sooo - Liss

sooo said:

Understanding broken heart syndrome requires looking at it in a deeper philosophical way, and when you do, I think you'll agree that referring to these "human events" as simply another stress-induced heart attack can demean what may be really taking place.

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I applause those people, researchers or not, that give us the 'allowance" to express feeling as " I have a broken heart" , or "that X devastating thing pains" and guard us from the well-meant but not that-timely- helpful "it's all in your mind". We have the same system to process both physical and emotional pain, researchers say; the pain is real and that, imo-without eliminate the perils of getting stuck there- its helps us embrace ourselves or others in a loving, sensitive way and overcome adversities. Even a heart needs a hug.

Many clients have told me they have been hurt emotionally so deeply that they can feel it on a physical level, and that this searing pain is felt in the area of their heart. I have every reason to believe them.

Besides that, at some level isn't everything we experience in our mind/perceptions?

rinda said:

Many clients have told me they have been hurt emotionally so deeply that they can feel it on a physical level, and that this searing pain is felt in the area of their heart. I have every reason to believe them.

Besides that, at some level isn't everything we experience in our mind/perceptions?

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I agree Rinda. In my experience I think there's a definite link from emotional pain /trauma and its manifestation in the body. No question at all. Perhaps it can be taken too far sometimes, but generally there is compelling circumstantial evidence at the very least. Moreover, in some ancient wisdom teachings which have been updated in certain theosophical texts it's said that the trauma can "rend" the etheric or vital body at particular nexus points on the body, which eventually find their expression in bone and muscle. Certain centres or chakras can be "frozen" causing a blockage of that particular flow of vital energy. Chinese medicine is obviously very aware of these blocks with its knowledge of acupressure points and meridians. And we are only just learning about the plasticity - even holographic - nature of the brain, the endocrine glands healing and the nature of homeostasis.

Put that together with an antagonistic diet and a myriad of other 21st Century pressures...Well, it's no wonder we all, at one time or another find it all too much. We are such sensitive "machines."

rinda said:

Many clients have told me they have been hurt emotionally so deeply that they can feel it on a physical level, and that this searing pain is felt in the area of their heart. I have every reason to believe them.

Besides that, at some level isn't everything we experience in our mind/perceptions?

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A question perhaps best answered by Job. His body was attacked because his heart was broken, while his "friends" accused him of offending God as the reason for his sufferings. Today, in a world where psychology has dictated our commandments, it's easy to imagine such "friends" as siting ones stinkin' thinkin' as the root cause of Job's broken heart. And they would not be entirely incorrect. Yet there are times when the heart has a mind all its own, and when it breaks, it's impossible to reason it back together. One can at best reconstruct ones life to include the loss before the loss overtakes the heart. Sometimes, like myself, heart failure is the result, though still alive. Consider 16.5 - 45, keeping it together with a literally broken heart. As strange as it may seem, it is, in some cases, further trauma that keeps one strong enough to keep on going. "Thus constant pressure may actually serve to keep one alive." - Wilhelm 16.5

Imo, there is a bidirectional influence between the mind and the brain/body and sometimes our conscious mind can't be aware of what we experience. Also, what we experience, influence our body's and brains and affects how the mind works. I agree, the riddle hasn't be solved yet, so personally I'led keep the questionmark.

anemos said:

Imo, there is a bidirectional influence between the mind and the brain/body and sometimes our conscious mind can't be aware of what we experience. Also, what we experience, influence our body's and brains and affects how the mind works. I agree, the riddle hasn't be solved yet, so personally I'led keep the questionmark.

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I think it's also a matter of the breadth of ones inner and outer resources. There's an old song, which I happen to really dislike, mainly the singer and his shmultsy voice and style, but which applies in a case such as we're discussing. "Only love can break a heart; only love can mend it again." If the partner of the departed one is surrounded with love of others, grandchildren, nieces, church brothers and sisters or friends, it can be healing to mind and heart. Or, if one has inner resources that fortify strong mental and emotional constitution, or if inner truth or even a strong faith system is active, that too can serve to keep the partner's motor running. It's often the lack of will to go on living without their partner that will be the coup de grâce. I think this is probably enlarge what Rinda may have been referring to.

There's another, cultural aspect of this that occurred to me while presenting the original post: the east Indian tradition of Sati, also spelled Suttee, where the wife of her departed husband throws herself upon his funeral pyer. This, in some eastern cultures, was considered fitting and proper. Joseph Campbell points out that while we call this committing Sati, they would see that the wife IS Sati; she IS ritual energy; and in doing this, both would benefit in the afterlife. Nothing is said of a husband being Sati upon his wife's pyre, and it would probably be seen as a disgraceful act since Sati translated means "good wife" and before that as meaning chaste woman. At any rate, the practice has been banned and even criminalized. The practice moved also to China and other Asian territories. The Greek wives, on the other hand, were known to often poison their husband and find a new lover haha!

Anyway, point being, this is not a new phenomenon, and I found the article's reference to much later dating as being misguided.

rinda said:

Many clients have told me they have been hurt emotionally so deeply that they can feel it on a physical level, and that this searing pain is felt in the area of their heart. I have every reason to believe them.

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For me it manifests in the spine behind the heart.
It has taken time, trial, error, and diligence to learn how to soothe it.

Yes, I think that is a better description of the location I am aware of - perhaps the heart chakra??

sooo said:

I think it's also a matter of the breadth of ones inner and outer resources. There's an old song, which I happen to really dislike, mainly the singer and his shmultsy voice and style, but which applies in a case such as we're discussing. "Only love can break a heart; only love can mend it again." If the partner of the departed one is surrounded with love of others, grandchildren, nieces, church brothers and sisters or friends, it can be healing to mind and heart. Or, if one has inner resources that fortify strong mental and emotional constitution, or if inner truth or even a strong faith system is active, that too can serve to keep the partner's motor running. It's often the lack of will to go on living without their partner that will be the coup de grâce. I think this is probably enlarge what Rinda may have been referring to.

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I think you make some very important points. It won't surprise you that some researches on resilience highlight the importance of supportive networks in the effort to overcome traumatic experiences. One author calls it "ordinary magic" . Loosely, it's a system's "homeostasis"

Speaking about brain and mind, they have found that good executive function skills its a good predictor for resilience . In more general terms it's pretty amazing, imo, to see how ancient teachings correlate with not only psychology but biology too, how are bodies have the tools for virtue, mindfulness and wisdom. Ordinary magic !!!

sooo said:

The Greek wives, on the other hand, were known to often poison their husband and find a new lover haha!

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lol, buuuuut we have faithful Penelope too , a Greek Sati , perhaps

Since the onset of congestive heart failure, I've always referred to the feeling as "dark heart", and it is where Topal describes. Soothing it is a matter of calming it, as one might calm an infant, or retreating from those thoughts which bring it on. I agree, that heart and mind work as 19.1 and 2 to h2, opening up the heart to move blood through the entrance and exist of the heart.

Enter help from modern technology. At my last checkup on the pacemaker, the small device, as I recall, was performing 72% of the upper heart and 97% of the lower heart's functions. The battery had already used 3 years of its energy in a matter of a few months. I present this not for sympathy but for general knowledge, insight into the Pathology of a broken heart. On the upside, the quality of life during this borrowed time is tremendously improved, and one can only by thankful for this. The extra time it provides permits setting ones mind and heart on a straight and beneficial course to meet ones inevitable end, or new beginning. That's something all conscious folks should be doing anyway. "People get ready, there's a train a-comin'."

People get ready, there's a train comin'
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board
All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin'
You don't need no ticket you just thank the lord

People get ready, there's a train to Jordan
Picking up passengers coast to coast
Faith is the key, open the doors and board them
There's hope for all among those loved the most
There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner whom would hurt all mankind
Just to save his own
Have pity on those whose chances grow thinner
For there is no hiding place against the kingdoms throne

People get ready there's a train comin'
You don't need no baggage, just get on board
All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin'
You don't need no ticket, just thank the lord

[video=youtube;1vP6IWjqn8o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1vP6IWjqn8o#t=1[/video]

anemos said:

lol, buuuuut we have faithful Penelope too , a Greek Sati , perhaps

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Indeed an uncommonly good and faithful wife, whose faith and fortitude while living was a much greater gift and honor than her sacrifice upon Odysseus' pyre, and for which her faith was rewarded, and suitors slain by the arrows of her survived husband.

"Wake up, Penelope, dear child, and see a sight you have longed for all these many days. Odysseus has come home … and he has killed the rogues who turned his whole house inside out, ate up his wealth, and oppressed his son."

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A beautiful story. One which can be symbolically interpreted for a whole man or woman, here or hereafter.

I got 59.5> 4 this afternoon and some aspects of this line reminded me of what has been said here.

I received 59.4 and 6 this afternoon. Took a little nap.

On the Penelope story, in context with the topic, I think it's more brave to go on living than to surrender to the grave of the departed.

Yes, its needs courage for both - living together and living apart.
as the wedding vows say...

This is a good thread. I feel it in my chest on the left side. It is a sharp pain that runs up the left side of my neck. It is as if there is no holding it back. Trying to seems to stiffen the jaw and then the pain runs through the jaw and releases with a down pour. Seems like allowing the mind to go to rest, a blank state, and just allowing the down pour releases it. When its going to rain, its going to pour. Struggling to hold it back seems to lengthen the pain.


Just recently realized for over a year I had pain in my left shoulder and up through my left side of my neck, that would travel down my left arm. Never really knowing the cause, massaging it at times. Figured its from working out. Sometimes it even seemed to go to my spleen though. Seemed like a connection when the down pour came, brought on by a very old heart ache. And that sharp pain ran through all of the areas that had been in pain for over a year. Only this time, started in the chest, ran through the shoulder, up the neck. Held it in the jaw for only a few seconds, til I decided to let it go. Don't know if you would say let it go or accept it. But when I did, it traveled out fast and all of that stiff pain seems to have left the shoulder and neck.


I like that 16>45. It resonates but maybe in a different way. Just yesterday I was describing the heart break like the feeling of a violin chord being played in your chest. A sharp cord and it travels up through the neck like music. A long held tune. The idea came to release the tune and play a new one. A softer, less sharp tune. A little more delicate and light. Seems like an old song, played for generations, that became a masterpiece. Time to write a new one I guess, and let the old one float back to where it came.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czkJYLqylzs

I think it's interesting that Monica Lewinsky recently said the cyber bullying she experienced felt like, "a punch in the gut." That area would be the second and third chakra area - the flight or fight chakra.

After my husband died I woke up every morning with my chest hurting like I had had a heart attack or a sever case of heartburn, anyway, the heart chakra.

Walking helped heal it, btw.