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Horrible noise 7.1 > 19

Liselle

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I came home from work, entered the door, was met by one cat, called to the other cats - and heard a horrlble, half-strangled moaning sound that I thought might have been a cat in distress. It repeated a few times, seemingly in response to my calling. It did not sound to me like a mechanical noise.

The last reading I'd done last night, about a different topic, included line 2.4: "Tied up in a bag. No blame, no praise" (Hilary's translation).

I thought I'd understood that as an answer to my question. But now all I could think was that it had actually been warning me that one of my cats would get tangled in a bag. (I do try to keep bags out of reach, but nothing is impossible.)

Before too long all the cats were accounted for, and they are all fine (the last to appear had found a new hiding spot, and he was in no hurry to emerge).

"What was that horrible noise???" I asked Yi. 7.1 > 19.

7.1
‘The army sets out according to pitch-pipes.
Blocking strength: pitfall.'
(Also from Hilary's book)

I suspect the reading is telling me that the noise was nearby (19), but wasn't what I thought it was. My fears were not in line with the facts? That is true - my cats are all fine, and none of them make a noise like that normally.

I had windows open, so the noise could have been from outside. But it really did sound like it was inside.

Maybe Yi was just trying to tell me not to worry - it wasn't what I thought, period end of sentence, don't spend any more time on it? (So here I am posting about it...)

Any thoughts? Should I keep trying to find the source? I haven't heard it again, since. Thank you...
 

Tim K

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Maybe it was some other cat that was visiting your cats and now was scurrying away?
Or some stand-off noises cats make when defending their territory.
 

Liselle

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"Some other cat" might be possible; not visiting mine, though. But occasionally neighbors' cats are on balconies, meowing.

This was not a normal cat sound, though, and my cats (once I found them) were not the least bit distressed (quite the opposite). So whatever disturbance there may have been, it did not involve my cats. Could maybe have been a neighbor's cat being defensive all on his/her own.

Another thought I just had was maybe it was a bird. Sometimes I think there's a cat stuck in a nearby tree crying, and it turns out to be a bird. Although that sounds like normal cat-crying. This sounded like a cat strangling - much scarier. And it really did sound like the noise was inside my apartment, not outside at all, not even in the nearby tree. But our hearing can play tricks on us.

I may not ever know what the sound was, and that's fine if there's no danger lurking. I'm just trying to figure out what 7.1 might mean in a context like this. The only thing I can think of is that spending time and energy on this is not the proper way to proceed, or the proper direction to proceed in. Yi may have known I'd spend time worrying and posting, instead of doing any of several more important things, and was trying to head me off before I got going. (I listen well, don't I. :rolleyes:)

...if that's what 7.1 means here. I'm not sure.
 

Liselle

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But...Ashteroid, I certainly can't say I've heard every dreadful sound a cat can make. And I know there are cats in neighboring apartments, and I did have every window open. So maybe I need a hearing exam instead of a Yi reading. :eek:uch:
 

pocossin

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Is there an empty cardboard box in your residence?
 

Liselle

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Do you mean packing-size boxes, or any size?

Packing boxes - I have some with stuff in them, and probably one or two or a few flattened ones somewhere.

If you mean any size at all, then probably, but I'm saying that mostly because it's not unusual to have some empty cardboard box somewhere. I can't specifically say, oh yes there's an empty shoe box right over there.

You'll explain why, right? ;)
 

pocossin

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You'll explain why, right? ;)

An empty cardboard box can trap a cat. I have seen it happen. The cat jumps onto the top of the box. The flaps give way, the cat falls into the box, and the flaps spring back, trapping the cat in the box. A trapped cat may yowl. This horrible noise is an expression of anger and frustration and has the peculiar property of being hard to located even when one is within a yard of the trapped cat. The sound seems to be coming from the surroundings. I speculate that one of your cats was somehow trapped, yowled, and struggled and broke free when it heard you come it. I have also had a cat trapped in a kitchen cabinet. Anytime a door is opened, a cat may dart in and become trapped.

The army sets out according to pitch-pipes.

There is support for this translation.

To detect the nature of the group-ch'i of an army, a kind of musical shaman would blow on special pitch-pipes, and from the character of the resulting sound would pronounce his conclusions: a note which was weak and did not have sufficient timbre would indicate a weak and vacillating ch'i, and would thus foretell defeat or disaster for the army concerned. Pitch-pipe soundings by shamans were taken for the 'home' army upon its marching off on compaign, and for the opposing army as it stood arrayed for battle in the distance. Sometimes, depending on the musical enquiries of the shaman, a battle would be called off, a retreat ordered, or an immediate attack launched. Music, therefore, was a serious business upon which tens of thousands of lives regularly depended (The Genius of China by Robert Temple, p.203).

Pitch-pipe divination evolved into hermetically sealed rooms, which put me in mind of a trapped cat.
 

Liselle

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Re: pitch-pipes - that is absolutely fascinating. Thank you, Pocossin. So...the army would set out according to (based on) what the pitch-pipes foretold, and if they foretold that strength would be blocked, and the army set out anyway, pitfall would follow.

Is that a decent way to think of it?

Cat trapped in box - not exactly, but I think you're on the right track :D

The only cat I couldn't locate immediately was, as I mentioned, hiding in a new spot he'd found (a spot recently created by stuff that isn't usually there). After calling him repeatedly, he finally came out. I actually saw him as he came out, and he was stretching and yawning and looked sleepy, so I know he was neither trapped against his will nor distressed.

But - the spot he was in was quite blocked in. You'd probably have to be a cat to get in there (you know how cats are with inaccessible places). And what I think now is that he did answer me when I called him, but his voice was muffled and distorted because he was so surrounded - and that's why it sounded strangly as it did.

Thank you, Pocossin!

(Um...how on earth did pitch-pipe divination evolve into hermetically sealed rooms? I don't get that at all.)
 

pocossin

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Um...how on earth did pitch-pipe divination evolve into hermetically sealed rooms?

The purpose of military pitch-pipe divination was to appraise the qi of the two armies. The imperial purpose was to maintain correct pitch -- there was great anxiety that correct pitch would be lost -- and to determine the date of arrival of the monthly seasonal qi. The pitch-pipes were believed to resonate with their corresponding qi. Ashes were put in the pipes. When the ashes of a pipe were expelled, the qi that corresponded to that pitch-pipe was considered to be present. The hermetically sealed rooms kept air currents from interfering.
 

Liselle

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Thank you, Trojina! I'd noticed that Hilary says "pitch-pipes" where LiSe says "rules" and Wilhelm says "in proper order." Harmen explains that there is a connection between statutes and pitch-pipes, and that it's not completely settled:

This doesn’t mean that the choice of ‘pitch-pipes’ as the meaning of lü in H7-1 is completely decided – there is not much context to be conclusive about this. In the (preliminary) translation of this line (below) it is valid to substitute ‘pitch-pipes’ with ‘statutes’.

I see here at LiSe's site:

http://www.yijing.nl/hex-lines/lines-07.html

that LiSe mentions the pitch-pipes, and also brings in this idea:

'Denying slaves' or ' no virtue'. The character is a picture of a blinded slave, who had probably no other choice than being virtuous, so the character later became 'virtue'.

which the other sources don't mention at all, and LiSe doesn't mention it in her translation or commentary:

Initial 6: The legion marches out according to rules. Not very good augury: pitfall.
For organizing, every action has to fit in. One deviating action can mess up all. One shot fired at the wrong moment, one false note in a concert, one wrong decision of a surgeon. All the details have to be right, and then the whole is an organic whole and a structure with power.

Unless marching out against the augury of the pitch-pipes (or without consulting the pitch-pipes at all) could be seen as marching blindly, being unvirtuous (not following the rules), or behaving as a slave with no freedom of decision rather than as a well-led army.

And the text doesn't mention rooms at all as far as I can see, so anyone just reading the I Ching itself, without Pocossin's knowledge of pipes, ashes, and rooms wouldn't understand my reading about my cat meowing from a blocked-in spot...

...ohhh wait! (Sorry for the stream of consciousness in this post.) My cat's voice was the pitch-pipe, and its strength was blocked because he was confined. And so me "setting off" (an alarmed hunt for cats) resulted in pitfall for me (not only did I panic, but it was in the wrong direction for an imagined reason. I "set off" (blindly) according to the wrong pitch-pipe. That might be it?

Maybe that's where the ashes come in? Ashes would block a pitch-pipe from making a sound. If you set out according to a blocked pitch-pipe, there would be pitfall, so you must wait until the ashes are expelled and you get a clear tone to evaluate?

But why did they bother with the ashes in the first place? If there are 12 pitch-pipes making 12 different tones, and the point is to see which tone is strongest on a given day and that is the divination, what was the point of the ashes? Was part of it to see which pipe and which person blowing would be strong enough to expel the ashes before the others? So were there two signals? First to expel ashes, and then also the strongest tone?

Pocossin, do you happen to have any more information? Are the ashes mentioned in the Robert Temple book? I looked for it online, and it's not browsable at, say, Google Books. I realize I'm pestering...:bag:
 
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pocossin

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And the text doesn't mention rooms at all as far as I can see, so anyone just reading the I Ching itself, without Pocossin's knowledge of pipes, ashes, and rooms wouldn't understand my reading about my cat meowing from a blocked-in spot...

I have very little knowledge. I think there is extensive discussion of this topic in classical Chinese and in Western scholarly research, but I do not have access. The system of a room within a room within a room within a room was used for imperial pitch-pipe divination, not military pitch-pipe divination.

Maybe that's where the ashes come in? Ashes would block a pitch-pipe from making a sound. If you set out according to a blocked pitch-pipe, there would be pitfall, so you must wait until the ashes are expelled and you get a clear tone to evaluate?

To the best of my knowledge, ashes were not used in military pitch-pipe divination.

But why did they bother with the ashes in the first place? If there are 12 pitch-pipes making 12 different tones, and the point is to see which tone is strongest on a given day and that is the divination, what was the point of the ashes? Was part of it to see which pipe and which person blowing would be strong enough to expel the ashes before the others? So were there two signals? First to expel ashes, and then also the strongest tone?

No person blew ashes unless there was deceit. The ashes were believed to be blown by the resonance of the pitch-pipe with the prevailing qi that permeated the walls of the rooms. That was the theory. I suspect that the ashes were expelled by changes in temperature or air pressure.

Pocossin, do you happen to have any more information? Are the ashes mentioned in the Robert Temple book? I looked for it online, and it's not browsable at, say, Google Books.

I have yet to find a full account of pitch-pipe divination -- an account that was so complete that I could do it myself. Yes, the ashes are mentioned in the Robert Temple book. Temple's account is not complete, and I have not researched his sources. Further, Temple, following Joseph Needham, disrespects the Chinese idea of qi. This is a serious limitation. Ashes are a mechanical means for appraising qi. I do not think it is possible.
 

Liselle

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To the best of my knowledge, ashes were not used in military pitch-pipe divination.

Oh, okay. I didn't pay enough attention to what I just underlined in this comment of yours:

The purpose of military pitch-pipe divination was to appraise the qi of the two armies. The imperial purpose was to maintain correct pitch -- there was great anxiety that correct pitch would be lost -- and to determine the date of arrival of the monthly seasonal qi. The pitch-pipes were believed to resonate with their corresponding qi. Ashes were put in the pipes. When the ashes of a pipe were expelled, the qi that corresponded to that pitch-pipe was considered to be present. The hermetically sealed rooms kept air currents from interfering.

And in 7.1 we're talking about the military purpose. So I can forget about the ashes? (I'd be delighted to forget about the ashes.)

...except, wait. The key to my reading was the rooms, and the rooms only come into play when ashes are used, and ashes weren't used for military divination, and 7.1 is only about military divination - so there are no rooms in 7.1 - and there goes the whole explanation for my reading?

Surely I'm missing something somewhere. The rooms did explain my reading. Unless I'm more wildly off-track than I can even recognize.
 

pocossin

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Surely I'm missing something somewhere. The rooms did explain my reading. Unless I'm more wildly off-track than I can even recognize.

The rooms explain my response to your casting. The rooms were the ultimate development in pitch-pipe divination. Like a pitch-pipe in a hermetically sealed room, my cat has been repeatedly confined, and I worry that she will leap into the refrigerator behind my back and perish.
 

Liselle

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Okay. You were right, anyway, and I'm happy for the explanation (of the reading and everything else - thank you).

Cats can be selectively clever, I think. They learn that the refrigerator is where food comes from (clever) but don't put together that they are abundantly fed not in the refrigerator. Mine stick their noses in there, but only their noses, thank goodness. I certainly hope yours stays out.
 

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