What is hope

goddessliss · May 5, 2016

I read something yesterday that said something like - if you are still hoping then you are still hanging on to something, unable to let go....so I got to wondering if hope is a good or bad thing and what is it really.

If you hope you get the job, hope you don't fall down the steep steps, hope he/she will call, hope they get better soon - this list is endless about what we hope for...so what does it really mean and is it a wasted emotion (is it an emotion?).

Because when it's all said and done the situation is going to turn out how it turns out anyway - isn't it??

svenrus · May 5, 2016

I hope the weather will be good. There is a bit difference in why I'm hoping: Is it in the eyes of a farmer... or in the eyes of a tourist ? For the first it's a matter of life and death and for the last it's a question of pleasure. But to pray to the weather ? Yes: ... "Because when it's all said and done the situation is going to turn out how it turns out anyway - isn't it??" I don't think it (the weather) will respond on your prayers.
What I mean is that hope is just another word for need.

goddessliss · May 5, 2016

A need or a desire?

svenrus · May 5, 2016

Know it sounds funny but: Need for the farmer, Desire for the tourist. Normally I connect Hope with God yet one should rather use the word Trust or Faith here, but Hoping for the Will of God to turn out true. In that sense I see it as an emotion. But when a matter of life or death I can't fit it with emotion.
Other words for Hope could be Wish, Wondering if.... but still born out of a need for something to happen. I'm aware that Your post wasn't a Question.

svenrus · May 5, 2016

Just realized that the WorldClock says night-time Down Under ? :zzz:

goddessliss · May 5, 2016

svenrus said:
Just realized that the WorldClock says night-time Down Under ?

Haha it is but it's only 7pm

Tohpol · May 5, 2016

I think hope is essential. But I imagine it often gets confused with anticipation and wishful thinking which tends to muddy that openness. Maybe with hope you remain open to all possibilities without recourse to imposing our naturally limited views on how things can turn out. Anticipation is kind of like preempting reality toward our own (often flawed) ideas of how things should be and thereby distorting that free flow.

Let's ask the Yi for a definition:

59.1.5>41

H.59 Dispersing / Expansion

I've found that 59 is often about the personality or ego running away with itself in various ways. It offers advice on how we can keep the correct quality of flow going whilst maintaining certain natural boundaries. Dispersing and re-organising so that integrity is maintained without falling into crystallisation or brittleness.

Line 1: I think this is reinforcing the idea that having a "strong horse" ensures that these emotions are balanced, to keep hope where it should be - working for us instead of against us. Provided we keep a firm rein on that horse hope can vivify our quiet intent - especially through very tough times.

Line 5: Offers a rallying point, a focal idea that inspires. No whimsy or sentimentality here. Hope then becomes a powerful rallying cry. Wilhelm: “In times of general dispersion and separation, a great idea provides a focal point for the organization of recovery.”

So I guess that means hope, trust and faith form a much needed triangle of strength (will) which must be psychically organised to be effective.

The background hexagram of 41 Decrease reaffirms that balancing act and some form of reduction or "sacrifice" of the lower emotions is needed to keep that idea of hope from being diluted into vague imaginings and frustrated desires. We have to let go and embrace the unknown thereby flowing with it. Easier said than done of course. But I think this hexagram defines it pretty well.

Hat off to Yi as usual. :bows:

goddessliss · May 5, 2016

I think I'm going kinda agree with svrenus here and say to me let's forget about hope and just use trust and faith that things will work out to meet our needs or desires.

In regards to the Yi reading topal I think 59 reads to disperse/dissolve the attitude of hope because hope is an exact (rigid) thought - therefore bringing fear or anxiety or even anger if the thing we hope for doesn't happen.

Line 1 speaks of taking action to restore trust and faith
Line 5 speaks of gathering yourself around these two things to disperse the negative states hope can bring

and Hex 41 to me in this reading means decrease the power of the ego (hope) - accept the powerlessness you have in whatever situation you're in and return to the power of the higher power of trust and faith.

Tohpol · May 6, 2016

goddessliss said:
In regards to the Yi reading topal I think 59 reads to disperse/dissolve the attitude of hope because hope is an exact (rigid) thought - therefore bringing fear or anxiety or even anger if the thing we hope for doesn't happen.

OK. I see...I get where you're coming from. Let's take this a bit further if you're willing. (Just ignore otherwise and I'll happily prattle on to myself

)

You see, I think there's a fundamental here, as I believe the "hope" to which you refer is one where there is full and identified anticipation of an outcome. I see hope as directly birthed from trust/faith that does not require identification with that desire, nor does it mean blind optimism. It is letting go while remaining open to the possibilities. How is trust/faith to be activated without such hope? I don't see it as wishful thinking per se, although it certainly can be. Yet, the very choice to trust indicates the presence of hope that such a position is correct, otherwise you wouldn't get out of the bed in the morning.

It's a subtle thing perhaps but self-acceptance, surrendering, letting go and non-anticipation are very much part of hope - if they are present. The kind of hope you appear to be talking about is one that is tied to dependence, anticipation and identification; the kind of hope that isn't hope at all but dissatisfaction with our perceived "powerlessness." Yet, if we do indeed cultivate that faith and trust it logically leads to a balanced perception that welcomes all possibilities wherever the path takes us. In other words: hope?

Let's think on a world without hope...

What of illness? Should patients exclude hope because they might be disappointed and not heal? Experiences show that hope is essential to healing as you know. Is that because they thought they were powerless and without any control over their body? Again, how is trust/faith activated without hope?

What of inspiration? The will to be courageous in the face of adversity? Without hope we are in danger of falling into that same cynical, negative state of mind, the same mind that believes that life owes them something and pissed off when it doesn't happen. Do we not lose the capacity for generosity and spontaneity? We can be of service to others because it is hope that allows us to imagine what we can do for another without any anticipation of reciprocity.

Trust/faith seems to me to be the egg from which a joyous hope - in the face of chaos - can birth creativity in both shadow and light. We need that fire in correct proportion to seeing reality as objectively as we can.

At least, that's how I see it but I could be missing a crucial piece of the puzzle! Paraphrasing something Albert Camus wrote which you might agree with in that he believed in a: "refusal to hope, and the unyielding evidence of a life without consolation."

Or what about some of these:

Hope is medicine for a soul that's sick and tired.
- Eric Swensson

Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are.
- Augustine of Hippo

goddessliss · May 6, 2016

topal said:
OK. I see...I get where you're coming from. Let's take this a bit further if you're willing. (Just ignore otherwise and I'll happily prattle on to myself )

It's a subtle thing perhaps but self-acceptance, surrendering, letting go and non-anticipation are very much part of hope - if they are present. The kind of hope you appear to be talking about is one that is tied to dependence, anticipation and identification; the kind of hope that isn't hope at all but dissatisfaction with our perceived "powerlessness." Yet, if we do indeed cultivate that faith and trust it logically leads to a balanced perception that welcomes all possibilities wherever the path takes us. In other words: hope?

Yes I wanted to take it a bit further because I like to understand things that essentially I don't understand or can only see from own perception which is not necessarily wrong or right just doesn't have the whole picture - please prattle!!

The underlined is where I was coming from when I asked my original question - it seems a lot of people post threads in anticipation of their hoped for answer coming up and when it doesn't or people respond with their interpretations of the throw they sometimes ignore and just keep hoping - surely that cannot be good for one emotional and mental wellbeing. I'm sure I'm guilty of the same hence looking for an understanding of hope.

I googled something like - how does one let go and the answer was something like 'take your hope out of the equation, accept things as they are and that's this particular situation is not going to change'
I read that as if you continue to hope then your hanging on instead of letting go...

Click to expand...

svenrus · May 6, 2016

According to #7 in this thread,

Also it's interesting to see the ancient Tag according to Alfred Huang (1):

"..............The ideograph of Huan expresses its original meaning. The image onthe left represents water. It resembles the primary gua for Water =, turnedvertically. On the top right is a knife, and on the bottom are two handswith fingers and arms. In the middle are two pieces of ice. Taken as a whole, this ideograph pictures a knife used to break up the ice, with two hands separating the pieces of ice. The ice melts and becomes water, at last dispersing and vanishing. The structure of the gua is Wind -- above,Water = below. The wind blows over the water and disperses the waves.The inner gua is Water; its attribute is danger. It symbolizes one's vital energy blocked within. The outer gua is Wind; its attribute is penetration. Penetrating and breaking the blockage leads to dispersion........."

I somehow can't help to see Hope expressed in this pictogram as two hands carefully melting the cold dark Ice.....

1) page 223 in THIS pdf-file

Tohpol · May 6, 2016

goddessliss said:
The underlined is where I was coming from when I asked my original question - it seems a lot of people post threads in anticipation of their hoped for answer coming up and when it doesn't or people respond with their interpretations of the throw they sometimes ignore and just keep hoping - surely that cannot be good for one emotional and mental wellbeing. I'm sure I'm guilty of the same hence looking for an understanding of hope.

Yes, I see.

So, perhaps we could say that there is a clear distinction between the kind of hope that let's go and surrenders to the full range of possibilities thus honours and trusts the Universe and the kind of hope that resists reality which isn't real hope at all but wishful thinking based on willful blindness.

goddessliss said:
I googled something like - how does one let go and the answer was something like 'take your hope out of the equation, accept things as they are and that's this particular situation is not going to change' I read that as if you continue to hope then your hanging on instead of letting go...

Well, to an extent, that may well be true in a "particular situation". However, I'd re-write it to say:
'take your anticipation out of the equation, accept things as they are and be open to change in ways you do not expect."

So, I agree with you, but there is differentiation needed. Perhaps one could say that "hanging on" is rejecting the idea that reality may be naturally fluid and non-linear - that we are resisting Flow for instance. When hope is seen as futile it is warning sign that we are hanging onto and identified with a belief and desire that reality must conform to OUR expectation of how things should work out. This is wishful thinking or lying to ourselves because we want change on our terms, often without seeing reality as it is. In that case, to have hope is like a crutch. Similarly, to be hopeless is merely a lack of will. Neither are what we want.

But as soon as we let go, but remain pragmatic about our situation we expand the field of possibilities which is always acausal. i.e. fluid reality does not depend exclusively on an ABC cause and effect and its logic. Creative change is based on a) what IS and b) what could be - even if initially mundane and incremental - and that's where hope comes in. Life operates on non-linear dynamics sensitive to our perceptions and by extension, as result of what we choose to metaphysically SEE in ourselves and the external world. We either see as objectively as we can or choose to remain in an entirely subjective reality bubble thinking that we can exert control in the same way every time. And in the latter situation hope is indeed an illusion.

That's how I see it at the moment.

Tohpol · May 6, 2016

svenrus said:
I somehow can't help to see Hope expressed in this pictogram as two hands carefully melting the cold dark Ice.....

Excellent image svenrus.

canislulu · May 6, 2016

Here is how Emily Dickinson defines hope:

Hope is the thing with feathers
that perches in the soul
and sings to tune without the word
and never stops at all.

And sweetest in the gale is heard
and sore must be the storm
that could abash the little bird
that kept so many warm.

I've heard her in the chillest land
and on the strangest sea.
Yet never in extremity
she ask a crumb of me.

...life can be translucent

What is hope

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