Dear friends,

I have some relatives that have the tendency to take advantage of others. I understand that it's not my business. They are who they are and I should not be judgmental. I've been trying to keep a cordial interaction with them, but deep down I find it hard to think good things about them. I'm trying to be neutral when I see them but it's very hard, so I ask

What do I need to know about the roots of these negative thoughts and ask for guidance to get rid of them. I received 41.1.2>23

My interpretation is although I may not need to completely get rid of all negative thoughts, but I need to accept how much I'm willing to give/sacrifice and not bargain afterwards (1). I need to give but don't have to decrease on my part, I need to augment/balance out the situation, but the KEY is do not undertake anything at this time, augment it instead (2). Process of pruning..(23)

If anyone can provide the feedback or your interpretation, it is greatly appreciated.

I'd like to let the forum know that I hardly provide any interpretation for others because I don't think I'm experienced enough. Sometimes I have the feelings, but I have hard time explaining it. So please forgive me for not paying back.

Much thanks.

Well, the image of 41 says it pretty clear.

Thus the superior man controls his anger
And restrains his instincts

Control and restrain. Sometimes we have this urges of doing X or Y, but we restrain them. I think that after a time of restraining "bad" thought, they are there less and less. If you feel the urge of... lets say, smoking. And you restrain that urge, sooner or later, you will stop smoking. And the urge its not going to be there, if you let that urge gets you, you will keep doing it and give that urge a true power.

Same as everything else, having the urge of something, its not a green light to do in it. And its the inside and the outside getting together, if you have an urge, and dont do it externally. That urge its going to start to fade away internally, because its of no use.

Hi there
I would agree with arbole line 2 is a strong indication of not being involved and hex 23 is reinforcing this. I was interested in the question as the other day I found myself getting really angry about past events of the way i have been treated by some people. I was kind of dwelling knowing I needed to move on. I asked a similar question about my thoughts and received 42 Unchanging. Interesting that you have received 41 about current events and I received 42 about past events. The question I asked was similar.

Steve

Thanks Arbole for your advice. It's very helpful.

Thanks Steve for your feedback. I was just wondering what are your thoughts when you asked the same question and got 42 for past events. What do you find interesting when I got 41 for current events. I can understand that 41 is decreasing so it makes sense in terms of reducing and restraining negative thoughts, but 42 is the opposite. I don't get the connection especially when it's UC.

Thanks,

Hi,

It is my experience that you cannot stop thoughts from coming. You are the lake below and what is below the surface is still there even when it is not seen. If the thoughts about an issue are unresolved they will often manifest in other ways. So, it is not always simply a matter of ignoring them. As it has been said, what you resist persists. If the thoughts are such that your mind is telling you something should be done, then it will be challenging to get rid of them.

The movement in the 1st and 2nd line may be alluding to the issues under the surface of the lake. A yang line at the first place generally is about beginnings and intentions. Under the lake these are hidden from view. The second line is also yang and should be a yin line. It is the place of expressing or coming into view. Too much yang under the surface of the lake feels like trying too hard to make something happen.

It may help to go to a trusted friend or advisor or counselor, or some safe environment, so that you can have an exchange about what is on your mind in regards to these people. That might fit the lower trigram of lake, though it is usually about a pleasant and joyful exchange. Your question was about how to get rid of thoughts. Though it seems counter intuitive when you want not to think about it, it could be that talking about them will help bring them to light so they can be released.

Mountain is on the outside and represents the outer situation. It can represent stopping with an awareness of the present. Thoughts will come and we cannot necessarily stop them. We can however train ourselves to be aware that we are having the thoughts. Awareness is the first step in changing any behavior. Once you think, OK, I am having these unwanted, unhelpful thoughts. Then you can re-direct them. It is a stopping place for the thoughts, like mountain, and the re-direct can be challenging.

One process I have used with some success, once I realize I am having the unwanted thought about someone, is to envision the person(s) walking down a path. I then say: "I wish you well on your path ___(person's name). Sometimes I have to do this many times in a day or an hour. It does work though. Then I do something else after I say it. I take some other action, as that is me going well on my own path.

Just some thoughts. I wish you well.
Maggie

Dear Maggie,

Thank you very much for your advice. You're absolutely right about thoughts cannot be gotten rid of, but instead we can transform the negative thoughts into something more positive. The more we suppress them the more it comes back but much more powerful. I like your suggestion about envisioning that person walking on their own path and wishing them well. Yes, compassion is the only way to transform negative thoughts.

A lotus for you Maggie,

:bows: My pleasure

Hi 41 and 42 are closely related for a start, I took 42 as increase in the way of staying positive, living well, increasing myself to be happy with myself , maggie may and arbole how do you see my answer? It was about negative thoughts about past events.

Hi 41 and 42 are closely related for a start, I took 42 as increase in the way of staying positive, living well, increasing myself to be happy with myself , maggie may and arbole how do you see my answer? It was about negative thoughts about past events.

Click to expand...

My first thought was that each answer, each hexagram, is new to each question and questioner. The names of hexagrams are only one way to derive meaning. The names are interpretations of a character that has levels of meaning. Consider the interpretation on Lise's website: http://www.yijing.nl/hex/hex_42.html

So each answer speaks to you and the details of your situation and how best for you to approach it given your character, temperment, and environment surrounding the question. In some ways H41 and H42 are very different. H42 is wind above and thunder below. H41 is mountain above and lake below. This suggests a different approach and situation. Though it is easy to generalize and fall back on past associations, every time you get the same hexagram, even 3 times in a row, it is a different answer each time.

Thunder has the attributes of power and force from below and quick action that doesn't hesitate. It gets things moving. It is to take action, cause a stir, move things with authority to fertilize the situation. There is fear at first that gives way to awe and laughter and growth. You are thunder, so approach the negativity like thunder. Which I feel is line with your interpretation. Take action in the way of thunder.

Wind is the outer situation and has the attributes of a gentle breeze and work over the long term to manifest something. I don't know your outer situation but it speaks to me of maybe some project or hobby that takes your focus and attention. It is curiosity and research. It could also be that it represents the negativity and realizing that it may take a consistant focus, gentle breeze to overcome the challenges. I feel this fits in with your interpretation as well.

Best wishes.
Maggie

tubinluv said:

Dear friends,

I have some relatives that have the tendency to take advantage of others. I understand that it's not my business. They are who they are and I should not be judgmental. I've been trying to keep a cordial interaction with them, but deep down I find it hard to think good things about them. I'm trying to be neutral when I see them but it's very hard, so I ask

What do I need to know about the roots of these negative thoughts and ask for guidance to get rid of them. I received 41.1.2>23

My interpretation is although I may not need to completely get rid of all negative thoughts, but I need to accept how much I'm willing to give/sacrifice and not bargain afterwards (1). I need to give but don't have to decrease on my part, I need to augment/balance out the situation, but the KEY is do not undertake anything at this time, augment it instead (2). Process of pruning..(23)

If anyone can provide the feedback or your interpretation, it is greatly appreciated.

I'd like to let the forum know that I hardly provide any interpretation for others because I don't think I'm experienced enough. Sometimes I have the feelings, but I have hard time explaining it. So please forgive me for not paying back.

Much thanks.

Click to expand...

If you know they take advantage of others wouldn't it be foolish to attempt to be 'non judgemental' of them ? I'd say your negative thoughts are your friends here, I mean they return because you need to listen to them not dismiss them in a haze of feel good..


41 and 42 show the natural swing of filling and emptying and it is this that you are particularly aware of in a situation where others take far more than they give as you say these people do. I think rather than supress feelings use what they show you. They don't come for no reason. Even if you don't want to express them it does pay for you yourself to give them a fair hearing.

41 does say to put less in, pay it all less attention but it is also saying you can give less. You can move on more quickly from them for example in line 1. Line 1 can feel quite brusque in my experience and it makes me wonder how much time you need to spend around them ? Maybe you could actually make a reason to depart their company far sooner than you currently do. The 23 makes me wonder if it is time to cut free from them altogether ? This may not seem possible at the moment but in the long run far more distance between you may be the best thing.

41.2 suggests to me you really don't need to throw huge amounts of energy at these negative thoughts, in fact you could probably decrease their hold on you simply by acknowledging them as the truth. It is important to pay heed to such negative thoughts if persistent because they can protect you, ultimately that is what they are for.

So my view is don't fight this in the quest for the dubious goal of a mind that doesn't notice what is happening. The less you fight the thoughts the less they will bother you because they won't need to keep on coming once you have fully heard what they have to say to you about these people

steve said:

Hi 41 and 42 are closely related for a start, I took 42 as increase in the way of staying positive, living well, increasing myself to be happy with myself , maggie may and arbole how do you see my answer? It was about negative thoughts about past events.

Click to expand...

I agree, maybe it was saying that you are/were already in a time for increase? Or that it was the proper thing to do, to leave stuff behind, just increase now what you have, since it seems that you didnt to hang on to that, maybe some other in a similar scenario needed to contemplate that matter and you just needed to increase in general to leave that behind and not struggle with it.

I think that 41 and 42 goes together, same as 31-32-33 for example. Its not that every hexagram is perpetual. And i think that for example to flow in 32, you go past 31 and 33 a lot. You dont drag 31 and neither 33. Besides that 32 can be a "bad" thing, what stays can be a struggle, so you go to 33 and leave it. To "start" again at 31, or who knows. Playing with the mutations that goes from 33 to 41 or 42, gets fun.

From 33 to 31:

Nine at the top means:

Cheerful retreat. Everything serves to further.

The situation is unequivocal. Inner detachment has become an established fact, and we are at liberty to depart. When one sees the way ahead thus clearly, free of all doubt, a cheerful mood sets in, and one chooses what is right without further thought. Such a clear path ahead always leads to the good.

I read somewhere that lower tiagrams are inside, higher outside. So, im thinking that 42: Thunder (ideas, thoughts) get to you, and you take it externally with decision but slowly (wind). 51 for example, Thunder > Thunder. Strike and strike, you act fast, no time to be... not finding the english word, its not calm but you get it. Also can be people, 42.1 i think its about a oportunity that needs to be taken, that its not going to last if not.

41: Lake below. Staying calm, content. Mountain. No action?


And yes, i think that after 41, comes 42. First you decrease yourself, you rest, be content with that decrease, its time for it. For then take action, opportunities, etc. You are content and rather still at 41, then something comes at 42 and you flow with it.

I was just playing with the hexagrams while reading and writing this. So i might be wrong.

Thank you Trojina!

They are completely opposite yet related i believe closley related I agree. As you say 42 follows on from 41 as one you are increasing and the other decreasing almost like positive and negative in relation to electricity. 41 is 42 in reverse, they are exactly the same lines.

Steve

Yes 41 and 42 are a pair. The whole 64 hexagrams are in pairs, they are often one another upside down as you say, ie

3 and 4
5 and 6
13 and 14
63 and 64

except in some cases like 29/30 where you could say they were inside out, or complements like 1/2....so yes pairs are inextricably linked. I think especially when unchanging the other of the pair is always recognisable in the situation. One cannot experience what decrease is without knowing increase and vice versa

But they aren't opposites structurally. The opposite or complement of 42 is 32, the opposite or complement of 41 is 31....we had a thread on those somewhere will link. That is if you change all the lines of 42 you get 32

This was a good thread on opposites/complements http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17790-Hexagram-Opposites

Yes that thread is interesting, on the relationships
its something i havent really looked at closely. It just jumped out when arbole asked about the ridding of negative thoughts and received 41 on current events and i asked about negative thoughts on past events and received 42. It was kind of the same question yet the advice was different because of the time frame the questions were based on.
Steve

I like it when those kinds of connections happen. I think 41 and 42 interlock especially closely so it's neat that you got 42 for such a similar question