I Ching Diary / Notes to Myself

rosada · Jan 18, 2010

Thoughts not ready for reading.

How does The Creator Create?

1.1 The Creative has no body. He cannot appear in universes that require bodies in order for one's opinion to be considered. He cannot act.

1.2 The Creative looks for someone who's outer appearance would reflect The Creative's intention. The instant he looks for it, The Superior Man appears. The Creative hastens to
meet with him.

1.3 Many things one wishes to have completed before one meets one's role model - higher self - Maker, whatever you want to call the one you are rushing to connect with - rise up for final attention. So much to be completed/ laid to rest. Even dream time is interrupted by the on coming connection.

1.4 Time to consider one's options. Join with others now or continue to go it alone for a while longer?

1.5 Ultimately if for no other reason than boredom one wishes to join with others to get new ideas..as in..
I think I'll poll the Audience. Reader...where does the story go from here?

fkegan · Jan 18, 2010

Or in the Alternative: What is translated in English by The Creative is all about the power of sunshine to motivate and develop all living process upon Planet Earth. The various lines refer to the various times or stages or hours of the day from before dawn through noontime to sunset and how these times control what is appropriate to work at. Therefore overall how to fit one's efforts or intentions into the natural rhythms of the sunshine. Or a culture can invent factories with artificial lighting and put folks to work 24/7 and not feel any limitation from the natural world until difficulties emerge from the "environment" to interfere with the System.

Frank

rosada · Jan 18, 2010

1.6 So align with what already is? Don't get ahead of Yourself?

fkegan · Jan 19, 2010

Hex. 1.6 At sunset enjoy the pretty colors and let evening take over from the work day. Trying to work out in the fields in the dark can be difficult. The whole set of hexagram lines are about adjusting one's actions to what is available to achieve. Wait for dawn before starting, let go of your efforts at nightfall. The process of making things happen is all about attending to both what you want to do and what opportunities are at hand.

As an oracle, hex 1 is a big picture symbolism. Process in general to be considered mostly and specifics not so important at this point.

Frank

Trojina · Jan 19, 2010

rosada said:
1.6 So align with what already is? Don't get ahead of Yourself?

Or don't get too big for your boots or your head will fall off.!

Synchronistically i had an ornamental dragon on my shelf which i accidentally knocked off the other day. It fell to the ground and smashed. I threw the body away but kept the head..its looking at me now with its tongue hanging out

wonder why the dragon in 1.6 has lost its head or maybe its not its actual head ...because if it had no head it would die yes ?...but i think i must be mistaking the no head thing with 2.6 ? Puzzled, i could have sworn the dragon in 1.6 was without a head.....just checked Wilhelm it says nothing about no head

meng · Jan 19, 2010

8.6 lost his head, but 64.6 only soaked it.

fkegan · Jan 19, 2010

Gia-Fu Feng rendered this line, hex 1.6 as:

ARROGANT DRAGON REPENTS. It is time to fall back.

Which would represent a far more positive implication for this line of this special hexagram. No danger to the dragon's head, no judgment of bad things about to happen. Rather this is the final line of the hexagram of pure process, so this line is all about realizing one's errors and improving things for the new situation developing Next.

Frank

Trojina · Jan 19, 2010

meng said:
8.6 lost his head, but 64.6 only soaked it.

i swear somewhere i saw the line 'a flock of headless dragons', thought it was 1.6.., maybe i dreamed it as dragons don't go in flocks and 8.6 has no dragon

rosada · Jan 19, 2010

There appears a flight of dragons without heads.

Trojan! You are absolutely correct, there is mention of dragons without heads!

When all the lines are nines, it means:
There appears a flight of dragons without heads.
Good fortune.
-Wilhelm.

I don't think I included that line when we were focusing on hexagram 1 in the Memorizing threads. I am going to go back and check. It certainly should be included before we move past 63.1! Breaking of wheels!

--
Thinking the dragons of 1.6 APPEAR to be headless because they have their heads concealed. They have heads but their heads are in the clouds. Is this because now that they are all together they are heading off into The Clouds, a.k.a. Dreamland, a.k.a. The Unconscious, a.k.a. Hexagram 2 The Receptive?

a.k.a. : also known as.
-rosada

Trojina · Jan 19, 2010

rosada said:
Trojan! You are absolutely correct, there is mention of dragons without heads!

When all the lines are nines, it means:
There appears a flight of dragons without heads.
Good fortune.
-Wilhelm.

I don't think I included that line when we were focusing on hexagram 1 in the Memorizing threads. I am going to go back and check. It certainly should be included before we move past 63.1! Breaking of wheels!

--
Thinking the dragons of 1.6 APPEAR to be headless because they have their heads concealed. They have heads but their heads are in the clouds. Is this because now that they are all together they are heading off into The Clouds, a.k.a. Dreamland, a.k.a. The Unconscious, a.k.a. Hexagram 2 The Receptive?

a.k.a. : also known as.
-rosada

Yes ! i think the thought visited us the same time, it suddenly occured to me it might be 1.7 and it is ! Well spotted. You're right we never did 1.7 or 2.7 in the memorising threads. Its a peculiar line isn't it " a flight of dragons without heads"

strange image.., I wondered if it meant each dragon has no head or the group of dragons have no leader but Wilhelm says their heads are hidden to denote mildness ? i always forget 1.7 as i never need to look at it

Trojina · Jan 19, 2010

rosada said:
Not done yet...Not ready to be read..Gone to look up how to spell autonimous..Gosh, now that we are discussing this I just realized that I have always pictured 1.5 as the dragon joining a flock of dragons! And now you tell me dragons don't travel in flocks they travel alone. I think we're being introduced to a new truth here. I think the I Ching is telling us dragons DO travel in flocks but that each flock is so co-ordinated and each dragon is so autonimous what appears to be one dragon could actually be a flock in unison and what appears to be a a member of a flock can take off on his own flight any time he chooses.

I think this is an important idea because it has to do with thinking of our bodies being made up of individual cells, atoms even, and each one of these parts can live or die at anytime.

well i can't say i know alot about dragons i just always thought they were solitary creatures but they must get together sometimes to beget baby dragons i guess. When many fly together as in 1.7 Wilhlem says there is great strength combined with mildness since their heads are hidden. How do you hide your head while flying ? You wouldn't be able to see where you were going would you ? Hmmm

rosada · Jan 19, 2010

I went back and reread Hexagram 1.
Wow, people posted a lot of interesting ideas back there.

Turns out we did talk briefly about 1.7 on about page 5 or so and then the discussion went on for several more pages before we moved on to Hexagram 2.

I wonder if this is a sign we should pause and re-read what we wrote before completing The Memorizing The I Ching Project? hmmm... sounds like a job for Bradford...

Musings..
I think there's something significant about the question of Do dragons travel in flocks?
Like, maybe what appears to be a lone dragon is actually a thought form made up of xnumber of similar thoughts. Maybe its trillions of dragons all flying together with such syncro - another word I can't spell - that they only APPEAR to be one, but actually every cell has freewill to stay go, fly higher, fly lower, but no one has to follow anyone else, they follow their own inner guidance. Then the I Ching is the story of one dragon who flew out of range of the old herd mentality (1.6) and his adventure in finding new companions to reasonnate with to be a part of a group thought form once more.

rosada · Jan 19, 2010

Our postings crossed paths.
I wonder if the hidden heads could be symbolic for the dragons not following an outer leader but each following their own inner guidance.
Or perhaps the dragons appear without heads from the perspective of the one who is below, so now the narrative shifts Heaven to Earth?
-rosada

fkegan · Jan 19, 2010

Or the simpler explanation that each individual moving line is seen through the symbolism of a single dragon at that stage. When all six lines are moving there would be six dragons all at once, so a flock of dragons; however such a special situation implies these many dragons would still function as a single unit, therefore no individual heads to express differing intentions or directions.

Overall, hex 1 is about Creative process that motivates and develops specifics. Six moving lines in hex 1 would highlight pure symbolic process to the max or Divine Creative Process in its most abstract essence. In the ancient world this was a difficult notion to express (cf. Ibn Gabirol's Fons Vitae or Living Fountain [of Divine Creation])

Frank

Trojina · Jan 20, 2010

fkegan said:
Or the simpler explanation that each individual moving line is seen through the symbolism of a single dragon at that stage. When all six lines are moving there would be six dragons all at once, so a flock of dragons; however such a special situation implies these many dragons would still function as a single unit, therefore no individual heads to express differing intentions or directions.

Overall, hex 1 is about Creative process that motivates and develops specifics. Six moving lines in hex 1 would highlight pure symbolic process to the max or Divine Creative Process in its most abstract essence. In the ancient world this was a difficult notion to express (cf. Ibn Gabirol's Fons Vitae or Living Fountain [of Divine Creation])

Frank

thats good, sounds right

meng · Jan 20, 2010

Yeah, I like what Frank said too.

Beyond concepts. I use the word "spiritual" pretty carefully anymore, but I think 1.7 could be seen as Pure Spirit, beyond even the most brilliant minds.

Turning on all 6 terminals at once is like the Big Bang, which is 7.

I dunno, just playing.

rosada · Jan 20, 2010

Just playing is just right. That's why this thread is in "Open Space" and titled "Notes to Myself." It's for jotting down ideas just so's we don't lose 'em - they don't have to be polished and in fact we don't even need to agree with them after we post 'em.

rosada · Jan 20, 2010

Over in Shared Readings on the Reading Sacred Books thread elvis has posted (post #31) a very interesting article, The Angels Page. Its a discussion on the difference between Spirit and Material. Seems like a good link from how the pure spirit of 1.1.2.3.4.5.6, The Big bang as meng calls it, leads to Space, hexagram 2.

"What is the difference between the material and the spiritual?.... the difference between spiritual and the
physical involves space. Physical space only exists in the physical world. In the spiritual, there is no space as we know it."
-Kaplan

And then he develops the idea further.
Wish I knew how to put The Angels Page link over here. Anyone have the computer savy to do that?
r

meng · Jan 20, 2010

http://www.emotionaliching.com/myweb/angels.html

Interesting article.

fkegan · Jan 21, 2010

Or more simply, dualities of all kinds require similarity (or closeness as used in the link for spiritual matters) as well as a clear difference or dichotomy--or in concrete terms--to be two sides of a single coin.

The more general discussion of material and spiritual also can be seen in terms of the finite or subject to measurement or infinite and thus not liable to being caught, measured or reduced to other terms.

In terms of hexagrams 1 and 2 they are more generally described in terms of Sunshine with its energetic powers of creative process where the six lines refer to the various hours of the day--- in contrast with hex 2 as Earth with its 6 lines being various situations.

Of course, a literal interpretation of the commentary upon the moving lines adds a different set of musings with the various dragons in hex 1 that culminates in a flock of dragons without heads that then becomes the Earth whose various lines are abstract notions of various situations that then culminates in the totally abstract commentary of 2.7 that changes back to hexagram 1.

There are a number of possible metaphors and symbolism for each of the hexagrams with the first two hexagrams getting an extra dose of possibilities to balance the simplicity of their line structure.

Frank

pantherpanther · Jan 21, 2010

rosada said:
Over in Shared Readings on the Reading Sacred Books thread elvis has posted (post #31) a very interesting article, The Angels Page. Its a discussion on the difference between Spirit and Material. Seems like a good link from how the pure spirit of 1.1.2.3.4.5.6, The Big bang as meng calls it, leads to Space, hexagram 2.

"What is the difference between the material and the spiritual?.... the difference between spiritual and the
physical involves space. Physical space only exists in the physical world. In the spiritual, there is no space as we know it."
-Kaplan

And then he develops the idea further.
Wish I knew how to put The Angels Page link over here. Anyone have the computer savy to do that?
r

The rabbi is being tricky. (I had read the article and responded to "elvis.") One can read between the lines, that 'everything is material and physical space is related to other levels or worlds of space' (like Jacob's ladder). How to perceive, experience and relate the working of other levels within ourselves is his message and question.

meng · Jan 21, 2010

I know of just one person who has received 1.7. It was a situation where a powerful person gave no consideration to reasoning regarding a loved ones future physical well being. Beyond reason, beyond common sense, beyond compassion. All this person could do was accept it, h2.

Trojina · Jan 21, 2010

meng said:
I know of just one person who has received 1.7. It was a situation where a powerful person gave no consideration to reasoning regarding a loved ones future physical well being. Beyond reason, beyond common sense, beyond compassion. All this person could do was accept it, h2.

Not sure i understand. Do you mean the powerful person ignored or over rode the needs and reality of the loved one, like refusing to accept their illness or something ?

Bordering on cruelty, not intended as cruelty but so self focused they are unable to see the loved ones needs at all ?

If so then is 1.7 where the strength of will or whatever we call it is so powerful it admits nothing else (cue mention of Hitler..he has to come into most threads doesn't he). This could be in a very creative way I guess or as here, in your example a rather negative way ?

This example makes me think of someone with strong religious beliefs, who might beieve all blood transfusion is wrong and hence refuse their very sick child the treatment even though they risk their life .

is that the kind of thing the example referred to ?

meng · Jan 21, 2010

trojan said:
Not sure i understand. Do you mean the powerful person ignored or over rode the needs and reality of the loved one, like refusing to accept their illness or something ?

Bordering on cruelty, not intended as cruelty but so self focused they are unable to see the loved ones needs at all ?

Yes, something like this, except cruelty would have been a personal motive, and (as I understood it) there was no real personal motive, more like accepting fate as a primitive initiation rite. It's like a strong belief, such the Jehova's Witness folks renouncing certain kinds of medical treatment.

meng · Jan 21, 2010

Belief is a powerful and sometimes unreasonable force. Pondering 1.7 a bit (thanks Rosada), I can see suicidal terrorist bombings as being a 1.7 action - destroying to create Utopia. To the opposite side, the famous photograph of a Buddhist monk setting himself ablaze to protest the Viet Nam war could likewise be interpreted as a 1.7 action. Then there's the Crusades.

Sparhawk · Jan 21, 2010

meng said:
Then there's the Crusades.

And not just the ones that were launched in the Levant:

On the afternoon of 22 July, the town launched a sortie which, when forced back into the town, was closely persued by a band of the crusaders. Once inside the walls of the town, the crusaders seized Béziers within an hour. Immediately there began a mass slaughter of Catholics and Cathars, alike. When asked by one of the crusader warriors about the possible killing of Catholics along with the heretic Cathars, Arnaud-Amaury is supposed to have delivered his nefarious statement "Kill them all! God will recognize His own!" Accounts vary as to the numbered slaughtered (10,000 to 20,000, with just over 200 estimated to have been Cathars) in this, the bloodiest and first, battle of the crusade. The massacre frightened many other towns to surrender without resistance.

Trojina · Jan 21, 2010

To be willing to die for the sake of a principle must mean the personal life is seen as less important than the life force itself, the creative power . Giving up ones self, becoming one with the creative, going beyond death...of course being willing for others to die for the sake of ones belief is another matter though seems its all along the same continuum

meng · Jan 21, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc9dGK8ketg

bamboo · Jan 22, 2010

I got hex 1 with all lines changing once, and a friend of mine did too. My question was about when I was in a job I had come to hate and wanted to get out but didnt see any means. It seemed overwhelming. My feeling at the time, when I got this reading, was that I was locked in by too much resistance. Resistance is a very tough mental state, it has a lot of power to keep one in place, it is like feeding life force into the very situation you want out of. More than I was open to the new and possible, I was focused on what I hated and how trapped I felt. I felt the reading was showing me the difference between rigid involvement via resistance (with the status quo) and being totally open and allowing for change.

eventually I got out, but not dramatically and not right away. I had to let go of the vehemence first . It was a quiet moment, not a big bang. The day my situation changed, I drew 22.3...a moment of grace but not feeling too significant.

my friend got 1.7 when she asked if she should sell her house...she was desparate to get her grown daughter out, and the house was very full of clutter. I thought this meant that it would take every ounce of her energy and very strong intention..she did not sell. sometimes a way of life has to utterly exhaust itself before change is possible.

meng · Jan 22, 2010

Thanks, Bamboo. Your accounts have a lot in common with the case I'd mentioned as it was told to me.

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