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and all that? it is really quite a nice contract where both sides become energised? Long story short there was something which made me uncomfortable and the Yi Jing told me it was time to break away from the spring and the 'Dark Earth Spirit' which was there (Dark as in Yi not as in evil)? by explanation it gave me Hx.44? see that dark line at the bottom? ? I was beginning to make the mistake of trying to marry the earth spirit and not merely have a wonderful intense but limited relationship.

To cap that story off? She gave me many gifts? go to the spring..ask for the blessing and gift? make an appropriate offering and a certain small, symbolic sacrifice in the Celtic gift fashion (representative carvings sometimes in silver and gold) and whoopedy dee? along came the result? scary at first? all those devil pact movies came to mind? nah, Christian dogma I?m afraid? scare the pagans and fill the Churches circa 400 CE (CE = Christian Epoch) in the UK.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Kevin,

I thought I brought this matter to Open Space not to confuse issues with your thread on Hex44.

If it is not too personal, would you care to tell us more of your experiences with earth elementals? (if we can call them that...) I find this a fascinating theme.

Cheers,

Luis

There is little I can say really? All I can do is speak a little about it with an open heart? I have no training or especial learning.

I was a desperate person seeking health ? I had an illness which was very debilitating but was not degenerative? I was told I would be unlikely ever to work again.

There is a tradition in Scotland of springs having healing properties. Apparently many farmers still will take a sick animal to a known spring, perhaps on a neighbours land? perhaps when other methods fail. They don?t talk about it much? but I am told that they remember the old places.

I heard of one such place from a friend? apparently a particularly powerful healing spring.

However I was like the stranger walking through the woods with no path? I have no ?pagan training? and know little of that lore. Somehow I came out of the ?wood? unscathed and a little wiser? but could I find that path again? Perhaps? I don?t know.

The little I did know was from attending a history archaeology evening class? for a reason I still do not know (but one might hazard a guess if one knows the way of small rural communities) the lecturer handed me a book on Archaeology / History of Paganism. Plenty of facts? the most interesting ones were the way paganism seemed to have survived as a tolerated practice as long as the locals also went to the Church (we are talking UK here). The author cited many pagan carvings built into churches in out of the way places hih in the eaves and in a corner hard to see? anyway that is another story?

What I noticed in the book were some very sparse notes on archaeological finds at various bronze and Iron age sites? It appeared to the author that there was some very long lasting tradition of making an offering at certain sites by casting an image of the ?problem? into the lochan (small lake) or spring. Many small war axes (keep me safe in this fight?) models of pregnant females (give me a baby or safe pregnancy?).

It struck me that this tradition persists? throwing coins into wishing wells perhaps?

Having been exposed to Christianity I was deeply cautious not to get embroiled in evil things (whatever they were? I did not know) nor to do anything which could cause any harm to self or others. This spring had a reputation going back into the earliest Celtic times? all word of mouth and impossible to verify? but country folk can be very good at oral tradition sometimes. Its reputation was of being of a good place.

So the beginning was simple? throw a small silver of offering into the spring; ask for health; bathe in the water; take a little home?

This was the repeated pattern for other things once I realised how effective it was? sometimes I would not visit for many years? Sometimes I merely went to say thanks and gave a small offering because I thought it was a nice thing to do.

I stumbled on what was happening? somehow I got the sense that my simple rituals were giving an energy to the place (other people go there too of course)? there seemed to be no cost to myself? indeed I seemed to get considerable ?protective? benefit from it.

One day something changed? I now think there was a Hx.44.5 meeting? I had not been there for a few years? but still I sensed no evil or darkness? maybe it works a little like the Zhou ancestor worship? Feeding and empowering the Spirits of the dead?

I just do not know?

One day the Yi said? ?far enough?? ?don?t marry her for goodness sake?? and I broke it off. Very much a 44.5 space that day?

Sorry if this is a little thin? it is one narrow path I found through a large wood with no theoretical or lore background.

Does anyone else have more knowledge of such things?

--Kevin

Oh, I forgot... I cannot remember where it was that I was reading about Chinese Spirit types... and I believe they have many, many, different sorts... But I remember reading that there are spirits who take up a place on/in the earth and that these 'dark ones' do not like to move around like the Shen spirits... this felt very much like what I met here.

--Kevin

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One day something changed? I now think there was a Hx.44.5 meeting? I had not been there for a few years? but still I sensed no evil or darkness? maybe it works a little like the Zhou ancestor worship? Feeding and empowering the Spirits of the dead?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>


Like I said, I find the whole subject fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing this with us!

A question comes to my mind: What changed? Was it you and your attitude towards the whole process of visiting the spring (I also see it as a "well") and making offerings to it? viz. an internal change. Or perhaps was something external you noticed in the environment around the spring that prompted you to query the Yi about it? Or was it a combination of both?

I find that many people can feel energy changes. Its nature. I believe I can, for example.

Luis

Hmmm... I kept referring to it as a well as well... used to have to remind myself it was a spring... interesting.

Like all energy exchanges it is only a matter of time before one realises how it works and finds a key within oneself... a concept... a way of presenting... where the energy flow becomes much greater... this, in part, is possibly the story hidden in the lines of Hx.44... ?

The different ways of dealing with this space... I certainly found my exit route plan in 44.6

All I can say about the 44.5 space is that it did not involve anything substantially different nor anything even vaguely unpleasant or unacceptable... maybe it was just the nature of the time I was in? I have never returned.

--Kevin

Sorry - missed your last line - Yes feeling those energy changes is a very big part for me.

Taken many years to be quiet enough with eyes open enough to see them.

Third eye?

Chuckles

--Kevin

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maybe it was just the nature of the time I was in? I have never returned.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would explain it. Interesting how you took the advise of the Yi to excuse yourself from visiting the place. I suppose it was time for you to wean yourself from that that gave you sustenance at a time of need. Moved on, in other words.

I imagine that in all these years since your last visit you must have drawn Hex48 many times. Have you ever associated this with your spring? If in a time of dire need and you question the Yi about it, would you think of this place if Hex48 comes up? I know I would...

As for energy fields, yes, the Third Eye comes to mind. I know the guy was debunked years ago, but I remember being a big time reader of Lobsang Rampa in my teen years, about the same time I discovered the Yi. He started my interest in all things methaphysical. (Are you reading Shaolin? The guy was totally debunked, but, the reading is interesting...)

Luis

I am reading Amit Goswami, "The Self-aware Universe". Science and religion reconciled, or even needing each other.

If you look with 'normal', thinking eyes, you see solid matter, particles. If you look with an open mind, aware, non-thinking, you see energy, waves.
He gives a very clear explanation of mysticism, clearsightedness, the power of the spirit, all these things.
Then the healing power of a spring is not at all strange, or all the other 'pagan' beliefs.

I think it is high time to incorporate them in our life again.

LiSe

Luis

This seems to mean something to you?

--Kevin

LiSe

It is.

So much we have forgotten.

I was waiting for you to turn up LiSe

Didn't know it was going to be you though...

5.6>9



--Kevin

LiSe,

Amen to that! I always wonder how people can deposit blind faith on any given religion thus discarding every other one. I try to keep a very open mind. Pagan beliefs occupy a big shelf in my mind and I cannot find any conflicts of interest. Of course, I have a very liberal mind at that...

Kevin,

It means a lot to me in the sense that I believe in, among other things, sites where energy concentrates and can be harnessed.

I have mentioned a few times that the spirit world is a big part of my daily life. I try to pay attention when synchronicities occur. Your comment about your experience, although secondary to your story about Hex44, touched a peripheral strand in my cobweb... What it means at the moment, I don't know. I know I will need to go back to it, sometime. I'm archiving it for future reference.

Luis

Kevin, greatly enjoying your experience and writing. From one untrained to another, your casual style 'puts me there'.

I (somewhat laughingly) recall 'power place' searches while tripping on mass quantities of mescaline. There was one place I knew of from past camping trips, and one night my close friend (to this day) and I decided to ingest organic mescaline and venture up to it. I don't know if I've written of it here before or not, so I won't go into it in depth.

But once we reached the place of power; a steep granite waterfall, we immediately transformed into whitetail deer. From there we ran and leaped through the midnight forest at incredible speed - impossible for humans. And I recall that very thought even as I ran. How am I doing this? (as tree branches wiz by inches from my eyes) Dangerous cliffs, fallen trees, near total darkness. Made no human sense. Humanly speaking, we were totally lost somewhere in the Stokes State Forest.

We eventually walked down a long slope which led to my vehicle. As I stated the engine, two deer showed up along the edge of the dirt road. I shut down the motor as Lou cranked his window down. And we all just sat there looking at one another.

Being a child of the psychedelic generation, I?m aware of the vulnerability of suggesting the experience was real while under psychotropic drugs. To me however, there?s no doubt. I?ve known hallucinations under the influence. But this was much more. There was and still is power in that cliff and waterfall.

I did return there a few times after that. Usually just sat, meditated and dreamed. Once, I took my lover there, and we bathed in the pool beneath the waterfall. Now that was renewing!

C

Candid, that was a really cool experience you shared. Thanks.

L

Luis

Thank you

I think I saw that Stephen Karcher may be going to publish the ?Total I Ching? in the States soon.

You may find it very much to your taste?

Maybe you have it already.

I must admit I found it very hard answering your questions? it is an area I find it easier not to talk about much? people can make so many different things of it and I am agro averse!

I am glad I responded for I have found a resonance with you.

LiSe
Thanks for coming with those words (and the ones on the other thread)? maybe one day we will learn to see ourselves as some kind of discreet nodes of energy all interlinked to the great matrix? waves and harmonics all interplaying.

Maybe then brother will stop killing sister for they will see that they are all other I?s (thanks for that idea Dharma)

Maybe we will stop killing the planet for it is us.

I really think that physics is going to lift us into this awareness, that the mysic side will become seen as a facility we can develop in relation to that new knowing.

Is this anything like what your book is talking about?

Candid
A beutiful liminal touching story!

Thank you for it.

Maybe you were lent a connectedness to the deer? just maybe you found a spirit who shared something of its nature with you.

It is my (limited) experience that the gifts of these places put us in contact with experiences / spaces / people which are reflective of their own natures?

Perhaps another day I will tell of the Waterfall Deity?s Daughter? I was lonely and threw some silver? the next day She (the Waterfall Deity) introduced me to this woman? wild and free? but firmly set in her course? Could sooth with a cool touch - but she could move from a delightful summer tinkling trickle to a raging summer flood in moments? As such she could sweep anything aside? We love each other still? but I became a little more wary of what introductions requested after that? Are we all just archetypal extensions?

Ever tried dowsing for places?

I suspect a Luis type of open receptiveness might identify them quite naturally.

Peace and wishing connectedness to all at Clarity for the coming year? may it be good?

Lighting a candle

--Kevin

Kevin, I already have Karcher's book. I find it very interesting. I only wish he was more disciplined with his bibliography and references.

I am happy you shared your experiences with us. People will be what people will, but I can certainly relate to your experiences. I've been made fun of before for admitting certain "beliefs". I've never given it a second thought though.

Dowsing...hmmm. I don't carry a forked stick but I'm always in a receptive mode for clues...

Ah, 2004 will be the year of the Monkey. Creativity galore! Open your minds and be on the look out for hints. It is said that if we are paying attention we could find ways to prosper in the year of the Monkey.

Cheers,

Luis

Kevin and Candid,
Thank you for sharing your beautiful and fascinating stories. I've no idea why but I feel as though reading this has some importance for me. I'll keep the information safe until I find out why I need it!

Luis,
Thanks for asking the question that brought these stories before us.

LiSe,
Thanks for the book recommendation. It doesn't surprise me one bit to learn that you're reading something that I know I'll find valuable!

Love,

Shelley

Shelly, possibly because you intuitively feel the same connections with these things written about? Magic, or what we call magic, is funny that way. Even a simple fairy tale can take us away to a separate reality. When they actually happen to you, you wonder, who is writing the play?

I?ve wondered if the deer got to experience people-consciousness ? with all its limitations and exaggerations. But then I?d think they?d have been nervous wrecks by the end of the ordeal, and they actually were calm and composed. So in light of that, I think they were just being deer, and that my friend and I became their ally. In affect, we possessed them. How odd to think of it that way. But why else would any sane deer tare ass through the forest in the middle of the night?

Deer 1: "D'you suppose they got to experience deer-consciousness, or were they just being men and we possessed them?"
Deer 2: "Well, why else would any sane man tear-ass through the forest in the middle of the night?"
Deer 1: "Dunno, but next time we find some of that stuff we ate, lets try it with bear!"

Shelley

laughs!

Great Shelley, LOL.

Quote:
"I really think that physics is going to lift us into this awareness, that the mystic side will become seen as a facility we can develop in relation to that new knowing.
Is this anything like what your book is talking about?"

Yes, it is. Amit Goswami is a quantum physicist, who was intrigued by the questions it poses when he studied, like many other of the students. But to put it into practice, one has to "stop wondering and limit oneself to calculating".
When he was retired, or almost, dunno, he went back to his initial inspiration. He was the son of a Brahman guru, which makes some difference too, of course.
In order to find answers to his questions, he had to ask psychologists and mystics, which was very confusing in the beginning, but they gave him exactly the information he needed.

It is quite an experience (for me at least) when things one feels intuitively, and which are 'only' subjective, are consistent with scientific facts. His book makes an organic whole of the entire universe.

My own family name is Voûte, which means vault in French, but also spell. I like that, feels like being a witch.

Lise

From a book my wife is reading:

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The stream from the Divine Source, of which elementals, fairies, nature spirits and devas are a part, has a simpler model of evolution than does the humans stream. Humans have chosen the path of knowledge, experience and individuation which is usually meandering and tortuous. The angelic stream is one of energetic manifestation and progressive higher awareness, with fewer opportunities for individual choice and without emphasis on individuation.
Elementals are the lowest manifestation within the angelic hierarchy. they are tiny energy beings generally associated with plants, trees, the natural environment and the elements. When seen by humans, they may appear as tiny points of light or colour, or in traditional fairy form, as nereids, sylphs, undines, salamanders, gnomes, elves or flower fairies.
Devas evolve from the elementals and flower fairies. The word "deva" is from Sanskrit and means 'good shining spirit'. They often become very tall and their task is one of guardianship of large trees, forest, rivers and watercourses, the movement of air, balance of climate, the interchange of the seasons, fertility, seedtime and harvest. Sometimes they guard buildings, holy shrines or places where there is a particularly sacred energy within the earth. The devic beings' next step in evolution is to become angels - probably beginning as a guardian angel accompanying a human being throughout an earth incarnation.

Guides and Angels by Ruth White
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Now, this was synchronicity at its best. I didn't know there was mention about elementals in the book she was reading until I mentioned her this thread I was writing on...

Luis