I enjoyed reading about "Experiences with Unchanging hexagrams"

Reading through the forums about hexagram 2, I have seen comments about 2 being negative regarding love. Is this true? Does anyone in general have experiences to share regarding hexagram 2? I have had 2 in readings, but it seemed very passive. I usually get them more as a resulting hexagram. I guess in retrospect I have taken it as "not much to do or can be done" or "let it go". But, when I reread 2, "she" seems so important.

I'm not sure where people would get 2, The Receptive, Earth, as negative unless they were trying to take control of the situation and it backfired (thereby not following the advice). In pretty much every translation a major part of the judgment is:

If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray;
But if he follows, he finds guidance.

If you get 2 you need to let go and be swept along by whatever happens, so it's neither positive or negative imo. If you TRULY follow its very Taoist advice, whatever happens will be positive because you will take guidance from it and it will strengthen you.

Just my opinion.

Hey, I am starting to really love Hexagram 2 and thought I'd share an experience that started it all. It might help you even though your post is about love with hexagram 2. I will set the scene. I was invited over to an ex boyfriends housewarming party where he and his soon to be wife had just moved in. We have remained friends and work together still. Despite all of that, it was a touchy situation and I was rather nervous about entering their home. I just didn't know how it would turn out. I knew there were going to be a mix of people there, some whom I hadn't seen in a while and some people I have never met, so being uncertain and anxious I went to the Yi for advice on the evening. I do not know the entire reading, need to get the software for recording readings, but 2 was the primary hexagram and when I went to the house, I kept it in mind the entire time.

More back story, I have a tendency to become very loud and to try and be obnoxiously witty, as maybe people start to pick up. Quite certain it is a defensive mechanism I have created for myself. Anyways, I was having a particularly upbeat and high energy day that day, and my mind felt very sharp and I had a bunch of ideas running thru my head etc that I could have easily blurted out. BUT INSTEAD, the Yi won my heart and mind over. I knew it would be wise to give being '2ish' a try. All sorts of things happened that evening. For starters, when I arrived I tried very hard to simply soak everything in and not interject and try and mold the enviroment to what I thought it should be like in conversation etc (very good advice in general for being a houseguest). There was a point when a group of four people came in after me and two of the ladies in the group immediately eyed me down and snobbishly ignored me dispite my warm smile I gave them. I think they were intimidated by my extreme beauty ha. A little later I sat on the couch with just them in the room and they started creating an open conversation about something on the TV. I went off of their idea and it really seemed to warm them up. There were so many times when I had witty remarks floating in my head (One's that if someone else had said them, I personally would have thought they were hilarious), but I chose not to say them and instead continued building what they were already 'building'. We ended up having a great group laugh and things were fine with the ladies from then on out.

Another thing that happened more than five times was my ex asking me what I thought about 'doing this' or 'doing that'. (Poker or Uckre etc). Every time I replied with 'whatever you want to do, I am up for whatever'. I also was very receptive to other people's needs and offered to grab drinks and hold doors, whatever I receptively could tell they wanted.

I let the situation mold me but the most important part is that I was still a part of the situation. I was an integral part, but not the part that drives things to action or choreographs the way the surroundings should be. I was there to help in a way. To aid in whatever needed done and whatever ideas were floating around. I took in and held all of the ideas presented to me, be them small or whatever they were, and aided them into existance by whatever means seemed to be what they wanted.

Kind of like how a pool of water would feel, holding all of that water. The pool is not the actual water, just what holds all of the people swimming. Or the earth, the more obvious way of looking at it, it is the ground for everything to grow on. The earth itself is not the plants. It is just the space for it to grow. I had the best night that night and felt that I really connected with people and the entire situation. I left having a true feeling of fulfillment.

I think for some people it is easier to be hexagram 1 about some things, wanting to change and 'will' something a certain way. Or maybe it is just that hexagram 2 is a lot less easier to grasp the concept. It is for me still hard, but I guess I am starting to understand it's importance.

You were saying 2 could be negative in love readings. I don't see it that way but more of a fundamental part of love. I think for love to exist you need to be receptive to it and the hearts of others. And love needs a place to flourish as well. If you don't have a bit of 2 in there, peices and parts would just be butting heads with no place for them to rest. If you get 2 regarding love it could just mean there is a need for space within yourself to receive signals about how someone else feels or what they would like to do with the 'situation'. The space could be for love itself to grow within or it could be something else that needs to be recepted.

2 to me, seems like this:
1. Something outside of you, you are seeing and feeling.
2. You soak it in, allowing it to come towards you, however it is coming. Take it all in.
3. Once it is in, it changes you and grows a little bit inside of you.
4. You give it back with it grown a little bit and it sustains the situation.
Does this make any sense?

Thanks for sharing your story.

I haven't gotten a 2 about love, but while reading about 2 in "Shared Readings" I saw people comment it was a "no" and I was quite curious if that was an across the board idea. I really enjoy reading about 2, it doesn't feel negative to me in any way.

If I had had HAD to chalk it up, 2 in a love reading would be something like, "Let the love come to you". But I am not signing my signature on this one.......

I like that...much more positive interpretation I think.

the twist is it could be coming from somewhere else..... there is always a twist.

A twist can be delightful. I like surprises. Even at first if they seem negative, something positive comes along. At least for me anyways.

more specific question

that's why most diviners put an importance on making very specific questions, asking just "about love" you give many interpretations,
it could mean that you or your partner would be the passive part of the couple(like the mare), but since you asked in love in general, I think it means you're passive, open to new relationships, the hexagram 坤kūn have some negatives aspects, principally if you don't know how to act according to the circumstances, because is hard, difficult, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boiK...DvjVQa1PpcFMxHYx3sv4L6Uona3czmA_IP_2RNDB1xBE= but if you act in a simple way you may succeed; here means maybe you're not in a active hole of choosing partners, and maybe you will have to accept things that you would generally not to get a boyfriend(girlfriend), and maybe will have not much options of choice.

H.2 is, of course, LUCKY in general, if not under exceptional contexts for a concrete divination.



Most usual meanings:


坤 kun1:the earth- / female-principle /
元 yuan2: primary / prime / first / origin /
亨 heng1: prosperous / feast / celebration /
利 li4: advantage / benefit / profit / profitable /
牝 pin4: female /[SHE]
馬 ma3: horse / horse chess piece /
之 zhi1: ...'s / him / her / it /
貞 zhen1: perseverant / chaste / virtuous // divination / omen /
君 jun1: lord / gentleman / ruler /noble /
子 zi3: son / child / seed / egg / fruit / young /
有 you3: to have / there is / there are / to exist / to be /
攸 you1: distant / far / adverbial prefix /
往 wang3: to go in a direction /towards /
先 xian1: early / prior / former / in advance / first /
迷 mi2: crazy about / fan / enthusiast / lost / confused /
後 hou4: behind / rear / after // descendents /
得 de2: obtain / get / gain / proper / suitable / proud / contented / allow / permit /
主 zhu3: to own / to host / master / lord / leader /
利 li4: advantage / benefit / profit / profitable /
西 xi1: west /
南 nan2: south /
得 de2: obtain / get / gain / proper / suitable / proud / contented / allow / permit /
朋 peng2: friend /(2)
東 dong1: east /
北 bei3: north /
喪 sang4: mourning / funeral /
朋 peng2: friend /pal /acquaintance (2)
安 an1: content / calm / still / quiet / to pacify / peace /
貞 zhen1: perseverant / chaste / virtuous / pure / loyal // divination / omen /
吉 ji2: lucky / fortunate /

Almost literal translation:




Don't you believe?

Yours,

Charly
____________________________________
(1) it sounds like 后hou = queen / ruler, most often female. 后 is the simplifyed form of 後 in mainland China.
(2) maybe euphemism for mate / lover, it depicts two cowry strings, cowry means female genitalia.
(3) Better VITAL & MATURE than RIGID or UNMATURE (of course, for getting LOVERS):

Ch.

P.D.:
Nothing passive with earth fecundity.
Ancient chinese people see females biologically stronger than males: «women defeat men like water suffocates fire».
Ch.

Charly thanks so much for sharing. This is really great information. There is a lot to soak in but I am enjoying it Some of the characters spark questions or comments from me..


I like the shape of this character. It's like Zoro's mark. What does the ...'s mean?

之 zhi1: ...'s / him / her / it /

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I am starting to get familiar with the 2 lines at the top of this character from Bu:

貞 zhen1: perseverant / chaste / virtuous // divination / omen /

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This one looks like thunder and I am thinking about what Lise said in the Gender Association Thread. I don't actually understand the origin of this one, but I know that Thunder represents the First Son:

子 zi3: son / child / seed / egg / fruit / young /

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Is there a bird inside of there? I was just thinking that the South is associated with the Pheonix:

南 nan2: south /

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This could be a close up picture of a bone crack in a tortious shell. Still going off of the Animal associated with the Direction:

北 bei3: north /

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Snail shells on a string? Or two chicks hanging out?:

朋peng2: friend /pal /acquaintance (2)

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This gives a good feeling:

吉 ji2: lucky / fortunate /

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(3) Better VITAL & MATURE than RIGID or UNMATURE (of course, for getting LOVERS)

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I agree!

Nothing passive with earth fecundity.
Ancient chinese people see females biologically stronger than males: «women defeat men like water suffocates fire».
Ch.

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Bruce and yourself have been discussing this, but I am not sure I have a complete handle on them being stronger. Physically because they bare children? Or in another way (or all ways)?

charly said:

Maybe LiSe might clarify:

http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_1-16/01-02.htm

Yours,

Charly

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Here is what I was thinking about with the Thunder. Your picture wouldn't transfer over, but Lise's link did.

Take care!

answeredquestions said:

[Nothing passive with earth fecundity.
Ancient chinese people see females biologically stronger than males: «women defeat men like water suffocates fire». Ch.]

Bruce and yourself have been discussing this, but I am not sure I have a complete handle on them being stronger. Physically because they bare children? Or in another way (or all ways)?

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Hi, Courtney:

Dialogs with the so called Yellow Emperor were not only in medical treatises but also in maybe less respectable treatises about JOINING THE YIN WITH THE YANG. Say, inner alchemy or bedchamber arts.

One of the later edition of an early text is the SUNU JING or Classic of the Plain Girl. In the firsts paragraphs she said to the Yellow Emperor:

Source of the chinese text: http://folkdoc.com/

Of course, it was speaking of female sexual superiority.

I like the shape of this character. It's like Zoro's mark. What does the ...'s mean?

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A zhi B means A's B or the B of A, like in the Zorro's Mark.
At the end, zhi means IT, like in CATCH IT.

I am starting to get familiar with the 2 lines at the top of this character from Bu:

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The upper component is BU or PU, which means TO DIVINE / TO CONSULT THE ORACLE /TO FORETELL, it has an itiphallic shape, at least for westerners.
The lower component is BEI, SELLS / COWRIES / MONEY / TREASURE / VALUABLE / PRECIOUS and depicts a sacred vessel or piled cowry shells, used as money and seen by ancient chineses as FEMALE GENITALIA. The pierced cowries adquired some reminiscences.

The character zhen, that anciently meant DIVINATION / OMEN adquired later the meaning of WOMEN CHASTITY / VIRTUOUS / PERSEVERANT.

THE FEMALE COMPONENT ALWAYS HAD MORE WEIGHT, MAYBE MEANING «FEMALE SUPERIORITY»

This one looks like thunder and I am thinking about what Lise said in the Gender Association Thread. I don't actually understand the origin of this one, but I know that Thunder represents the First Son:

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It means SON / CHILD / YOUNG / SEED / FRUIT / A NOBLE of LOWER RANK / and much more. It depicts a BABY WITH WRAPPED LEGS, like Swee Pea. I believe that can be used as an euphemism for the male member, in which case can be read as MEN ARE BUT BIG CHILDREN.

Is there a bird inside of there? I was just thinking that the South is associated with the Pheonix:

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I dont see the BIRD, I see a LAMB, but not sure.

This could be a close up picture of a bone crack in a tortious shell. Still going off of the Animal associated with the Direction:

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I don't remember how bone cracks looked like. I see a sat person with the back against a bank. Chinese houses were built back to the North.

Snail shells on a string? Or two chicks hanging out?:

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It's said that means FRIEND / PAL and that depicts TWO STRINGS OF COWRIES. Nowadays FRIEN needs a two-syllabe word. Peng must have another senses, among it, LONGEVITY = SEXUAL meanings.

This gives a good feeling:

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It means LUCKY / PROPITIOUS / GOOD / FORTUNATE. I believe that it depicts a PHALLIC SHRINE BUILT ON A HOLE IN THE SOIL. Maybe can be read so: GOOD LIKE TO JOIN THE YIN WITH THE YANG. Another character for GOOD depicts a WOMAN with a CHILD. More reputable.

As you can see, always in the nitch!


All the best,


Charly

P.D.
(1) IMHO: 夫 is a humble introduction, the girls was speaking to a High Ruler, to a so called Emperor.

I must check the etymologies, my memory is as weak as my knowledge.
Ch.

I got some TCM books a while back and cannot bring myself to soak in the words just yet. I know very little about the Yellow Emperor, but hopefully one day will branch out and learn more about accupuncture and the meridians etc.

This Yijing stuff, from the ground up, has me completely captivated. I really appreciate your research and sharing Charly. and keep the nitch going!

Thanks, very much, Courtney:

The SUNU JING was a reconstruction of early chinese handbooks made by Ye Dehui (1864/1927)using fragments that had survived quoted in the IshimpO, a japanese medical book. (1)

As a consequence of it, the guy lost his intellectual reputation, I believe. But the reconstruction was not a forgery.

Similar texts appeared later among the medical texts of the Mawangdui Silk Manuscripts which were translated by Donald Harper and also in part by Thomas Cleary. (2)(3)

Some people liked to go to the tomb with good literature for enjoying in the afterlife: philosophy, the Lao Zi, the Zhou Yi, medical text. Maybe the more wealthy on JOINING YIN / YANG with it promise of LONG LIFE and even, the jackpot, IMMORTALITY!

Take care,


Charly


___________________________
(1) For something about Yeh Dehui and the Classic of the Plain Girl, can see:
L.A.Rocha: Xing the discourse of sex and human nature in modern China, in «Historicising Gender and Sexuality» edited by Kevin P. Murphy & Jennifer M. Spear. Available in Google Books.

(2) He yinyang 和陰陽, translated by Donald Harper.
See Livia Kohn: Chinese Healing Excercises, available for online reading at:
http://es.scribd.com/doc/23492282/Chinese-Healing

(3)

Harper provides an annotated translation of the Mawangdui medical manuscripts ... [that] are untitled, but have been assigned titles by Chinese scholars on the basis of their contents.

MS-1(the first manuscript) consists of five sections:

• Zubi shiyi mai jiujing or "Cauterization Canon of the Eleven Vessels of the Foot and Forearm" (1.1),
• Yin Yang shiyi mai jiujing or "Cauterization Canon of the Eleven Yin and Yang Vessels" (1.2),
• Maifa or "Model of the Vessels" (1.3),
• Yin Yang mai sihou or "Death Signs of the Yin and Yang Vessels" (1.4),
• Wushier bingfang or "Recipes for Fifty-two Ailments" (1.5).

MS-2 has two parts:

• Quegu shi qi "Eliminating Grain and Eatin g Vapor" (2.1),
• Daoyin tu "Drawings of Guiding and Pulling" (2.2).

MS-3 and MS-4 are compendia of recipes:

• Yangsheng fang or "Recipes for Nurturing Life"
• Zaliao fang or "Recipes for Various Cures."

MS-5:
Taichan shu , the "Book of the Generation of the Fetus," is specifically concerned with pregnancy.

MS-6 and MS-7 consist of four texts on various subjects:

• Shiwen or "Ten Questions" (6.1),
• He Yin Yang or "Harmonizing Yin and Yang" (6.2),
• Zajin fang or "Recipes for Various Charms" (7.1),
• Tianxia zhidao tan or "Discussion of the Culminant Way in Under-heaven" (7.2).

From a review by Lisa Raphals published in China Review International 7.2 (Fall 2000)

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Another quotation:

Unlike Jinkui yaolue regarding ´sexual dreams´as a symptom of women´s only Zhouhou Fang sugests that both men and women may dream of sex with either human being or ´demons´. These problems can be solved by herbal formulas, acupuncture or moxibustion.

Source: Hsiu Fen Chen: Dreaming sex with demons
(The link doesn´t function but here another from the same author:
http://128.220.160.199/journals/late_imperial_china/v032/32.1.chen.html

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Worse the medicime than the illness.

Ch.

charly said:

Some people liked to go to the tomb with good literature for enjoying in the afterlife: philosophy, the Lao Zi, the Zhou Yi, medical text. Maybe the more wealthy on JOINING YIN / YANG with it promise of LONG LIFE and even, the jackpot, IMMORTALITY!

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What literature would you take?

answeredquestions said:

What literature would you take?

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For the afterlife, maybe, comics.
Ch.

charly said:

For the afterlife, maybe, comics.
Ch.

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Nice choice.

Source: http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/I/I-ching.asp

Ch.

From the look on her face, I think she is actually thinking about doing it.

Le Tao du Robot, 1st. episode. Can see the Dragon and the White Tiger in the secons page.

http://www.3rd3y3.com/le-tao-du-robot-ep1.html
Source Fusion Comics
http://www.3rd3y3.com/index.html

Ch

The Dragon and the Tiger both look like they are deliriously driven or "on something". ... must be all the chemicals! Cool pictures. I was flipping through, can't read the language but the pictures SAY a lot.


For good measure: source of original picture http://www.3rd3y3.com/le-tao-du-robot-ep1.html

answeredquestions said:

... can't read the language but the pictures SAY a lot.

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Hi, Courtney:

I put the link to the french original, but here are available also english versions:

http://www.3rd3y3.com/comics.html#tao2

(Click on the pictures at the left)

yours,

Charly

...missed your post somehow Charly. Read Episode one.... Man get's destroyed by his own machines... happens every time.