Your experiences with unchanging hexagrams - hexagram 51

weaver · Jul 11, 2013

I hope it's okay to start this thread out of sequence...

I'm interested in the subtler manifestations of 51. I had it recently as a daily reading, and waited with some trepidation to see what the day would bring. An earthquake? A coup de foudre, literal or figurative? An illness? An accident?

In fact the day held a very pleasant trip to the beach with an extended group of friends, an afternoon by the river, and then dinner out. The weather was fine, and nothing untoward happened. I did have two long and interesting conversations with an older family friend of my friend, and we found a lot in common, perhaps even a kind of mutual recognition that our experiences might in some ways be quite similar though there is a big gap in our ages and experience. So that might be the start of a friendship. And it was a lovely day, but (happily) nothing particularly dramatic seemed to take place. So, although in a way the reading had me staying even more carefully in the moment than I'd otherwise try to, I was left wondering what the shock or '51'ness of the day might have been. Has anyone had any very quiet experiences of 51?

AskingQuestions · Jul 15, 2013

weaver said:
An earthquake? A coup de foudre, literal or figurative? An illness? An accident?

A coup de foudre.. had to look that up. I like that expression to describe 51. That seems to go along with the idea that 51 is not always about a scare or accident. Instead 51 can be about a new awareness. An out of the blue understanding!

I like to think about shock as a way to showcase the way that awareness looks like - when we feel shocked and our eyes open up and ears are at attention. We are capable of getting to this point of awareness without a stormy or negative accident. We can arrive very clear and even pleasantly present. Maybe during your time out with new people you had a shift of awareness or motivation, something like that.. And maybe instead of looking for the external shock wave that got you there you could congratulate yourself for how well you received it.

Trojina · Jul 15, 2013

My experiences with 51 uc have been, without exception, about inner arousal, excitement...or fear from whatever cause. I've not known one occasion where 51uc meant some great outer shock. I wonder if this is one of those badly named hexagrams that misleads just by the name. I'd want to call it 'arousal'.

My most recent experience of it was in a reading for someone else. She had been told she could have a heart problem and was going to have some tests. She felt shocked by this and apprehensive.

She asked Yi to what extent this heart problem would mean she had to change the way she lived. (she already lived a very healthy life). She got 51uc. I stuck my neck out and told her there likely wouldn't be any great changes necessary because so often 51uc comes up for something that is experienced purely internally, in our emotions, it's contained within us, there is not necessarily anything externally noticeable happening. It turned out that after the tests she was told there was nothing wrong with her heart. We both laughed heartily as I had been through the same process and we compared the

type thoughts we'd had that were so funny in retrospect..and of course there is the laughter in 51.

For me it's come up when there's a lot of emotional arousal connected to the question though nothing external may be observable. I think 51 is a highly emotional hexagram, the lines showing how the emotional shock waves reverberate...or don't. I'd say 51uc, can among other states, describe the excitement of love and infatuation and so on. (I wonder if Weaver's heart strings were plucked that day ?)

No doubt someone had 51uc for some shocking event....if so I wait to hear it.

Wing says of 51 uc

"In it's static form the time of SHOCKING is at hand. The only thing predictable about what is coming is it's SHOCKING unpredictability. The double influence of the two active component trigrams, CHEN, movement, causes violent and repeated arousing. Examine yourself to see if you have in your heart an acceptance of the sudden forces of the cosmos. Only with this attitude can you behave correctly. In regard to the object of your inquiry, you may experience many such shocks, which will continue until you alter your intentions completely."

This bears absolutely no relation to my experience to 51 uc, not to date anyway. You may be 'all shook up' in 51uc but that doesn't mean anything earth shattering has to happen. The sight of your love interest across a crowded room is enough to do it.

weaver · Jul 16, 2013

AskingQuestions said:
A coup de foudre.. had to look that up. I like that expression to describe 51. That seems to go along with the idea that 51 is not always about a scare or accident. Instead 51 can be about a new awareness. An out of the blue understanding!

I like to think about shock as a way to showcase the way that awareness looks like - when we feel shocked and our eyes open up and ears are at attention.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it seemed to be something more like this - a sudden coming to attention, not an external calamity. I still am not sure exactly what I was supposed to be attentive to - everything, maybe. By the way, LiSE gives 51 the title 'thunderbolt' (like coup de foudre). Though it strikes me now that thunderbolt is an odd expression in the language. Bolt of lightning, yes, but clap of thunder? Thunder seems less concentrated, more reverberative, which is what the hexagram looks like - something radiating out.

weaver · Jul 16, 2013

trojan said:
My experiences with 51 uc have been, without exception, about inner arousal, excitement...or fear from whatever cause. I've not known one occasion where 51uc meant some great outer shock. I wonder if this is one of those badly named hexagrams that misleads just by the name. I'd want to call it 'arousal'.

My most recent experience of it was in a reading for someone else. She had been told she could have a heart problem and was going to have some tests. She felt shocked by this and apprehensive. She asked Yi to what extent this heart problem would mean she had to change the way she lived. (she already lived a very healthy life). She got 51uc. I stuck my neck out and told her there likely wouldn't be any great changes necessary because so often 51uc comes up for something that is experienced purely internally, in our emotions, it's contained within us, there is not necessarily anything externally noticeable happening. It turned out that after the tests she was told there was nothing wrong with her heart. We both laughed heartily as I had been through the same process and we compared the type thoughts we'd had that were so funny in retrospect..and of course there is the laughter in 51.

For me it's come up when there's a lot of emotional arousal connected to the question though nothing external may be observable. I think 51 is a highly emotional hexagram, the lines showing how the emotional shock waves reverberate...or don't. I'd say 51uc, can among other states, describe the excitement of love and infatuation and so on. (I wonder if Weaver's heart strings were plucked that day ?)

Thank you for this, Trojan. There was no immediate romantic element in the day - the family friend and I are both heterosexual women though of very different ages. I did feel a strong pull to talk to her, and when we began talking it was apparent there was some mirroring in the way we related to things, particularly an attraction to the mystical. One of the things we talked about was having a sense of responding to some unspoken guidance, for want of a better word - an intuitive sense of what to do next without any corresponding understanding of where that would lead, or in fact without any overall accompanying feeling of comfort or that everything would turn out all right. In fact, in many ways her life has been very difficult. I suppose I wondered whether this was a message for me that mine might be similar. And I also had on my mind the person I love, who's far away and more or less silent. It's all very unresolved. For me the sense of 51 was like being a fish in a reef somewhere, feeling the tremors of an earthquake on the other side of the world - being necessarily involved in larger events, but without having an obvious role in them. It was like hearing the thunder of an army marching off to war, and knowing I'd be involved at some point, but not yet. Not particularly comforting.

rosada · Jul 18, 2013

A friend was considering writing up a trust. We consulted the I Ching asking for a comment and received hexagram 51. It seemed to be describing what a trust is, something to keep things calm during a time of turmoil like the priest who does not let fall the spoon and chalice.

As far as I know the friend hasn't gotten around to doing anything more about this which we might say is reflected in the fact there were no change lines.

Rosada

yibee · Dec 1, 2013

Au contraire to all the above posters, my experience with hexagram 51 has been indeed like a bolt of lightening, thunder and anything else that fits the description of the word shocking. I had spoken to a guy from an online dating site but my gut feeling negated meeting him. He pursued me and we agreed to meet and set up our first date. It was decided he will pick me and drop me back in his car. As i was waiting for him, I asked iching, "what will happen on this date?" and got hex 51. Within minutes he was honking to pick me up, first glances all's well sizing up, mutual attraction, there was definite sense of unknown as we beat the traffic. We talked, listened to music on his car and hummed eric clapton and i found myself relaxing thinking about hex 51 earlier and dismissing it. We got to our venue. It was cold and he handed me over a glass of something and told me it would keep me warm. It was mulled wine.I gulped it down. He got 2 more glasses as the conversation flowed and became more intimate revealing ourselves. I was drunk by third glass. Next thing I know his mouth swooping in on me and in each others arms for what seemed like an unending passionate session of kissing and making out and ofcourse from strangers we became lovers. That evening when id asked iching what would happen on this date and got hex 51..shocking would be an understatement. The experience was both an event and a self relisation that I am a passionate woman!

moss elk · Sep 18, 2014

A 51 story.

About a year ago my 23 year old (ex-wife's) niece had been sleeping on my couch for about six months.
She had come out of a bad situation/difficult time so i let her stay for a while rent free so she could feel safe and get her life back together.

One morning before leaving my bedroom i did a reading for the day and got 51 unchanging.
I strode out of my room with a deep gulp of air ready to meet the day, and whatever it brought, into the living room and
*Shock! 51!*
The niece had (drunkenly) ripped off her pants and undergarments, threw them in the middle of the floor,
And fell asleep on her knees and forehead with her large bare bottom upturned and shouting, "Hello world!"

Here was me: As i quickly strode out of my room into the surprising scene, i spun like a dancer or one doing a military pivot and made haste back into my room. (I distinctly heard/felt an exclamation of "OH!! Resound inside me, eyes going wide.) Back in my room, I laughed heartily.

I took a deep breath and calmly snuck out of my own house.

anemos · Sep 18, 2014

knotxx · Sep 18, 2014

That is hilarious!

I have a couple of times gotten 51uc when I was frozen with indecision: it was as if I'd gotten stuck in a moment of shock--me standing there with the ladle, eyes bugging out, not moving--rather than rolling forward with what I needed to do.

Agree that 51 seems to refer to inner shock/arousal/alarm. I did once get 51uc about an outdoor gig a band I was singing with had, and in fact there was a big thunderstorm (alarming when you're surrounded by electrical gear). But we and the gear made it safe under cover and laughed.

Trojina · Sep 18, 2014

The niece had (drunkenly) ripped off her pants and undergarments, threw them in the middle of the floor,
And fell asleep on her knees and forehead with her large bare bottom upturned and shouting, "Hello world!"

Here was me: As i quickly strode out of my room into the surprising scene, i spun like a dancer or one doing a military pivot and made haste back into my room

Here, dear forumites, we have Moss Elk perfectly demonstrating the words in The Judgement

'The shock terrifies for a hundred miles,
And he does not let fall his sacrificial spoon and chalice' (Wilhelm)

In the face of an unexpected large pair of naked buttocks in his living room Moss Elk kept his composure....and went about his day as best he could.

:rolling:

moss elk · Sep 18, 2014

:hide:

Trojina · Sep 18, 2014

BTW you know some people look at the picture the hexagram makes ?...Well don't you think the 2 trigrams of 51, if placed side by side, look remarkably like buttocks ?

I think so .

BTW as I said in the 49uc thread, we have the 49uc and 51uc threads both started by different people. We don't have the 50uc thread yet so if anyone would like to start it that would be refreshing. If no one does I will....eventually.

Trojina · Sep 18, 2014

Oh and as I write on this thread there are very loud claps of thunder outside...

Liselle · Sep 19, 2014

I've had 51uc where I'm pretty sure it was telling me to stop dilly-dallying and get a wiggle on ("arouse" myself from the sofa, is how I took it).

Trojina · Oct 14, 2014

Yes that reminds me of Wilhelm's

'THE IMAGE

Thunder repeated: the image of SHOCK.
Thus in fear and trembling
The superior man sets his life in order
And examines himself'

Or in other words you get off the couch and decide to get your **** together

Before heading off to the 52uc thread something caught my attention on the radio yesterday that I felt connected to the experience of 51uc.

Basically someone was saying our own human security software, that is our fight/flight response etc, has not been updated for XXXX years...I forget exactly how many years but, well, since we began basically. Someone called it an 'inconvenient mind' for our modern lives in the sense that all threats to security trigger the same response. Our security software doesn't distinguish between physical or psychological threat.....and we are wired, our 'security software' that is, to pretty much have the same reaction to an unpleasant email as we might have once had to the approach of a lion or tiger. Someone else was saying it was very good software because here we are, in evolutionary terms we made it. OTOH it can be inconvenient that one's bowels get ready to empty so that one can make a quicker escape, adrenalin speeds the heart ....and all that....because of an email, not a lion. Nothing most people don't already know but what caught my attention was thinking of this in terms of us not having had a 'software update' for some time.

To rephrase the ImageiIn terms of our 'software' .....

'Despite her security software kicking in the woman arises from the couch and completes her tasks'

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Trojina said:
Basically someone was saying our own human security software, that is our fight/flight response etc, has not been updated for XXXX years...

*laugh*

That's a splendid metaphor - and I see the point, although the threat can be just as severe from an email as a lion, depending what the email says. Different in some ways, just as bad in other ways, maybe.

'Despite her security software kicking in the woman arises from the couch and completes her tasks'

I didn't mean to imply that I thought 51uc meant I was in any danger - just that I needed to hurry up. (Although it is true that if a person dilly-dallies too long, they will need a good adrenalin-infused fight/flight response to catch up then.)

knotxx · Oct 14, 2014

although the threat can be just as severe from an email as a lion,

I disagree though! the problem is just (as trojan says) that it FEELS as severe. Unless you receive an email saying "there is a bomb under your couch that will go off in 3, 2, 1 . . ."--otherwise, no, an email is not going to kill you, and a lion is. I have a friend who says that when things are at their worst--the bank lost her deposit, so her rent check will bounce, so she'll be homeless--her mantra is "I am not being eaten by a bear. I am not being eaten by a bear." She had that same insight trojan describes: my body is reacting as if I am about to die but I am NOT about to die. I really think that can't be emphasized enough.

(Of course ultimately we'll all be about to die, but mostly we're not.)

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Well...as I said, I do see the point, but I also beg to differ. Our problems have just changed, not gone away - very rarely is anyone nowadays eaten by a bear, but I think there are modern-day counterparts.

Depending on how you look at it, being literally killed may actually NOT be the worst thing that could happen to a person. Having bad things happen, and then having to live with it, might be worse, as in the school of thought which says that the worst punishment is not the death penalty, but life in prison. (I realize you weren't talking about criminals, and neither am I, really - it's just an analogy.)

Of course, anyone can make use of any viewpoint that helps them. If "I am not being eaten by a bear" helps your friend, then by all means she should use it.

Trojina · Oct 14, 2014

Well...as I said, I do see the point, but I also beg to differ. Our problems have just changed, not gone away - very rarely is anyone nowadays eaten by a bear, but I think there are modern-day counterparts.

Yes...no one has said our problems have gone away

I was talking about the physical fight/flight response to stress/shock. The point was the modern day counterparts rarely require us to get ready for full on physical fight or flight. We won't need to run from an email...so our hearts need not beat faster but they do anyway. We do not need to empty our bowels to make ourselves lighter to run from an email so that urge to go to the toilet when shocked is generally useless to us....but once it had an actual purpose. That is in our evolutionary past it aided us in fleeing from predators. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/04/whats-the-purpose-of-the-fight-or-flight-response/ Our bodies need not physically react how they do to deal with many issues that arouse or trigger our 'security software' ...those physical reactions are not needed if we aren't going to have to run or fight but we have them anyway....and they can get in the way when trying to keep the chalice steady.

Anyway it was just a thought....when I heard it termed as our 'security software' not being updated it struck me in a way it hadn't before. Struck me....Aha...pun intended.

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Trojina said:
Struck me....Aha...pun intended.

Ha ha!

Yes...no one has said our problems have gone away

Oh dear, that comment of mine you're referring to was a response to Knot, not to you. (This is what happens when I just respond without quoting what I'm responding to, sorry.)

I was talking about the physical fight/flight response to stress/shock. The point was the modern day counterparts rarely require us to get ready for full on physical fight or flight. We won't need to run from an email...so our hearts need not beat faster but they do anyway. We do not need to empty our bowels to make ourselves lighter to run from an email so that urge to go to the toilet when shocked is generally useless to us....but once it had an actual purpose. That is in our evolutionary past it aided us in fleeing from predators. http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/04/whats-the-purpose-of-the-fight-or-flight-response/ Our bodies need not physically react how they do to deal with many issues that arouse or trigger our 'security software' ...those physical reactions are not needed if we aren't going to have to run or fight but we have them anyway....and they can get in the way when trying to keep the chalice steady.

Agreed. And your last point, about the physical responses being counterproductive "when trying to keep the chalice steady" - oh, how true.

knotxx · Oct 14, 2014

I too certainly did not mean to seem to say that "we no longer have serious problems." And sure, many of us may have a fate we consider worse than death--living for years mentally incapacitated, for example, is one that might trigger that for me. But those situations are almost vanishingly few compared to how often we get that fight or flight response.

What I meant and I guess did not clearly say is what trojan said -- we get that "run, you are about to DIE" physical reaction when it no longer has a purpose. And in fact, we get that reaction not only for quite serious and yet non-deadly things (my friend's apparent imminent homelessness; notice of a tax audit; that kind of thing--awful, worrisome, but, to me at least, not the same as imminent death); but also for stuff like "Giving a big presentation next week: or "boss won't return my email." And in NONE of those cases, small or large, is the adrenal-terror response at all helpful. Except in the actual case of lion approaching or bomb under couch, it just isn't. For example, I can get that adrenalized, fight-or-flight response when I consider living for years with Alzheimer's--but it doesn't help me, the way running away from a lion would. It hurts, in fact.

Trojina · Oct 14, 2014

Yeah I got that full on fight/flight response when I thought a piece of black cotton was a large spider

Well if it had been a lion I would have survived I reckon.....

Still in terms of evolution poisonous spiders are a threat to primates and so can be to us so fight/flight reaction to the ghastly things isn't that unreasonable I suppose....unless it's actually black cotton afterall.

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Maybe it depends on a person's individual reaction to the adrenaline? Most of our problems nowadays require clear thought - keeping the chalice steady, as Trojina said - rather than just running away as fast as possible.

If the adrenaline and the fright prevent you from thinking clearly, then it's clearly counterproductive. But if it makes you more alert, gives you an "edge," as they say, then it could be quite beneficial. Successful performers often say that nerves actually help their performance.

Some of the other things you mentioned, Knot, are in another category altogether - things that frighten us, but which we can't do a single thing about (your Alzheimer's example for instance). In an ideal world, what would be a good response? I have no idea. We can't help but be scared/worried, and yet there is nothing we can do. (Humans are both blessed and cursed with foresight, I think.)

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Trojina.

I realize it's a cartoon, and that you are making a relevant point, and that it is Halloween season.

STILL.

Liselle · Oct 14, 2014

Trojina said:
unless it's actually black cotton afterall.

Yes, it's the not knowing that's the problem in that case. Reminds me of Hilary's blog post where she was discussing this, and received hexagram 9 as a response.

http://onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/01/10/scary-readings/

knotxx · Oct 15, 2014

ah thanks for the pointer to that blog, I somehow missed it -- really a good one, hilary.

sooo · Oct 15, 2014

Yesterday I was thinking about 51, though I didn't receive it, and that there's different sensations for different kinds of shock, one of which gives no sensation at all, one doesn't even know they're experiencing shock but for a certain vacancy of lucid awareness, and even that must be brought to ones attention to become aware of it. This is sometimes my reaction to receiving 51. First there's denial: "Huh? I'm not shocked. I feel perfectly calm in fact." Eventually it starts to occur to me that what I'm interpreting as calm is actually being numb. Part of my cognition has shut down, part of my power supply has been turned off, shorted out, as thunder sometimes does. During this type of shock, I don't even know why I'm receiving 51, until the lights come back on. It's then that the omg! type of shock occurs. Sometimes the first kind is a precognition to something that occurs later, kind of like that dead still moment before lightening strikes or the tornado hits.

iams girl · Oct 17, 2014

sooo said:
kind of like that dead still moment before lightening strikes or the tornado hits.

Good point. The calm before the swearing :rolling:

?

My experience with 51uc has also not been what I'd call “ the shock terrifies for a hundred miles,” however it has usually been about watching my anger and trying to deal with it constructively, i.e., less focus on blame and more on objectivity or problem-solving.

I also actually asked Yi to help me understand more about 51 (without using the book) before going to sleep one night. I'd been looking at the Chinese characters “sickle” and “rain” on LiSe’s site and associated them with “cutting to the core of something” followed by “new growth” or “restoration.” To me, they also tied in with how the doubled Zhen trigram is described ("swift movement" and "luxuriant growth of spring") in W/B. The next day I experienced three examples I thought were fitting:

1) My night’s sleep was “cut” short in the morning being abruptly awoken by another person and I did not have kind words about it. However, I apologized later and a discussion followed about how the situation might be avoided in the future which “restored” things.

2) Later that morning, my taste buds were “cut” back after distractedly double-heating my tea in the microwave and realizing the situation too late as it went scalding across my tongue and throat. With a little self-soothing, I accepted there was nothing I could do except wait for my tongue to regrow and “restore” itself on its own (fortunately one of the fastest healing sites on the body).

3) Lastly, a project for that day was helping a hoarder go through their mountain of stuff and the reality of how long it would take to get through it all, months and months, “cut me to the core” and it was difficult for me to remain positive about it, however some progress was made which lent itself to a feeling of “new growth” and “restoration.”

knotxx · Oct 17, 2014

Those are really interesting examples. I don't have a lot of 51uc in my journal, but the ones I do have suggest a stuck quality.

Once I got 51uc as a comment on my state when I'd had a small anxiety-producing shock that left me frozen with indecision.

Another time I was very anxious while making a video of myself talking (a highly anxiety-producing activity, let me tell you, but I had no choice) and got 51uc when I was stuck in a cycle of re-shooting the video over and over and over.

(Amusing (to me) side note: I asked "how can I know when to stop, when it's done?" and got 14.6--oh good! A few minutes later my computer crashed. It really was help from heaven, because I NEEDED to stop.)

After the frozen-with-indecision one, I asked "when frozen with 51uc, what’s the way out?" and got 17uc. Now I when I'm stuck in an anxiety-produced loop or frozen state, I try to look for those little fleeting impulses that come along so that I can grab onto one and let it carry me out.

Your experiences with unchanging hexagrams - hexagram 51

weaver

Guest

visitor

Supporter

weaver

Guest

weaver

Guest

Supporter

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

visitor

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

Supporter

visitor

sooo

Guest

Supporter

visitor