Any experience with hexagram 59?

anita · Jan 8, 2003

Fellow Seekers of the Truth,

In answer to whether my German boyfriend is my future husband, the yarrow method gave me hexagram 59. No moving lines. I know the hexagram refers to union through offerings in the temple -- which I regularly do, as well as prayer and taking part in ceremonies. It also seems to mean that there will be reunion. Does his staying in Germany -- so far from India where I am have something to do with 59 too?

Best for your Quest

Anita

lindsay · Jan 8, 2003

Dear Anita,

As you know, Hexagram 59 is usually interpreted as Dispersing, Dissolution, Scattering. Here we have at work nature?s two great solvents, Wind blowing over flowing Water. Wind penetrates everything gently, accommodating itself to every space, carrying things here and there ? but over time it can carve out canyons and wear down mountains. Flowing water is similar ? penetrating, yielding, gently active ? but it too can wash away beaches and slice through rock. Wind and water appear weak, unremarkable, insignificant, even necessary and indispensable ? do we not breathe the air and drink the water? - but each has the power to wear down the most adamantine object. It is possible some combination of forces, barely noticeable in themselves, perhaps outwardly helpful, is wearing down or dispersing something very important to your happiness.

Images help. Imagine a single droplet of ink dripping into a glass of clear water, or a sudden gust of wind blowing a pile of dry leaves this way and that. Is something like this happening or about to happen to your relationship? Perhaps some subtle, slow process is involved that you have not paid much attention to previously?

I believe there may be danger here. The Yi is warning you. If you were to ask ?When will my troubles be over?? - Hex 59 is a very good sign. But if you ask, ?How is it with my lover and me?? ? I do not think an image of dispersion and scattering bodes well.

What to do? First, examine the situation and look for signs of dissolution. Approach the situation as though you were a king entering his temple. The king does this (in China) to reunite Heaven and Earth, to check chaos and dispersion, to put everything into its rightful place, to restore and maintain cosmic order. The early kings made sacrifices to the Great Spirit to create holy bonds designed to hold the world together. This was perhaps the king?s most important function. Perhaps you should find a way to act like a king within your relationship? Second, be prepared to take serious action to prevent future erosion. Crossing the great river is no holiday, it is a difficult and burdensome undertaking. No one leaves home, breaks old habits and patterns of thought, without great need. Third, one must be persistent. All this may take a lot of time and effort.

Inside Hex 59 there is a clue: the nuclear Hexagram 27 (Jaws) often points to problems with giving and taking nourishment. Are there nourishment issues at work in your relationship? Do you have enough to eat of each other, are you full and satisfied? Or is someone still hungry, or perhaps unwilling or unable to eat? Of course, I mean ?eat? in the symbolic sense, the nourishing parts of your relationship that keep it healthy and fit. Don?t just think of him ? have you had enough to eat lately? Perhaps one of you or both are being worn down by hunger.

I know this is a gloomy and unwelcome reading, but Hex 59 worries me because it can be so subtle and gently destructive. Take care. I hope I?m wrong.

Lindsay

hilary · Jan 9, 2003

Anita accidentally sent her reply to this post back by email rather than posting it here. So it arrived in my inbox, and here it is:

Dear Lindsay,

Thnk you so much for writing and your gentle warning. But I am a die-hard optimist so I take what makes sense to me in the hexagram. I have come across in Karcher and others allusions to "overcoming estrangement" and "union through religious ritual" although I know that dissolution too is a meaning. If the win can get everywhere, I'm sure it can achieve anything -- with gentleness and adaptability.

Besides 59 is not the only hex I receive. I also get constantly 54 with lines that speak of the lonely maiden (we meet twice a year) waiting and finally marrying as well as 38 with lines that allude to the companion biting through obstacles to reunite with the one he knows he belongs to. Also the I Ching always counsels me to persevere and wait, saying that he is the superior man.

I have no reasons to believe otherwise since my last conversation with him on New Year was very promising and positive with great declarations of love and commitment from both sides. He is one who never speaks lightly and always keeps his word. So I hope things will turn out well for us although we are separated most of the time.

Thanks once again Lindsay.

louise · Jan 9, 2003

"Also the I Ching counsels me to persevere and wait, saying that he is the superior man"

Do you mean you believe the Yi is saying your boyfriend is the superior man ???

anita · Jan 10, 2003

Hello Lindsay and Louise,

First let me add something more on 59. My boyfriend has told me that he will come back the first chance he gets. He must complete his thesis on the theory of relativity before he does.

By the way, I don't expect him to move to India as he has no fit job openings here. instead, i see myself moving to wherever he may be in some years from now. So I hope things will turn out well for us although we are separated most of the time.

I have also drawn 59 when asking if he'd write soon (and I know he will) -- and the image or judgement that says the king proclaims his command abroad does make sense in that light. He scatters his command abroad.

I asked the Yi last night what it meant by giving me 59 in response to my question and first it gave me 55 - lines 3 (can't do anything for the time being but the situation will not persist) and line 5 (following good counsel brings blessings) turning to hexagram 17 and when I asked a second time (I have read that ancient diviners asked the same question 3 times. The second and third to clarify the first answer) I got 59 again! Very goosebumpy! Bought a smile to my face as the Yi often does. And line 5 here speaks of the king scattering perspiration by gifting his treasures to the people.
Blofeld interprets this as dissolving anxiety (perspiring) by making offerings. It changes to hexagram 14.

Louise, to answer your question, yes I do believe he is the superior man. My temple believes he is and the Sensei can see through anyone right away -- the right man for me and his not having communicated with me for some time does not prove otherwise. He believed that he needed to focus on his work for a time and he takes an hour at least to write a small mail to me -- he takes great care to express himself correctly. This would take a lot of time and I understand this well. I also understand what's in his heart and so, I did not resent him for not writing regularly. It was however, not a total desert. He left end September and in October let me know through Itsuko that he would return and that he missed me. In December he wrote me a long mail for my birthday and talked to me on the telephone and now here he is again for the New Year.

When I ask the Yi whether he is the right choice for me I always get very positive responses. The Yi refers to him as faithful, sincere and highly intelligent and spiritual.

Best for your Quest

Anita

lindsay · Jan 10, 2003

Dear Anita,

You (and only you) are the final authority on how the Yi relates to your affairs. The rest of us can only suggest a few tentative ideas based on our own experience that may or may not apply.

The voice of the Sage seems to be speaking to you very clearly. What greater reassurance can the Yi offer? I am sincerely pleased to hear its messages are so positive for your happiness.

My own interpretation was admittedly faulty and incomplete, but more important it was also perhaps needlessly alarming. There is an old fortune-teller?s confidence trick that recommends using messages like, ?An unexpected problem will soon appear? ? the idea being that such a warning cannot fail to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When we are looking for bad news, we usually have no difficulty finding some. It was not at all my intention to play such a sleazy game. Please don?t let my reading worry you ? it was well-meant, but plainly wrong.

The lesson for me is that it is not a good idea to offer a negative reading to another person unless one has all the facts. Perhaps it is never a good idea under any circumstances.

I?m sorry,

Lindsay

hilary · Jan 10, 2003

Hi Lindsay,

FWIW, I think it's a good idea to offer a negative reading to another person whenever you're sincerely confident that that's what the Yi meant. If you think there's a message that needs conveying, what else can you do? The worst you can be is wrong. (Search this forum diligently, you might even find that you're not the only one...)

I don't think anyone is going to alarm Anita: she has a degree of confidence and trust that is rare and valuable indeed! Perhaps this is the quality you need to get through 59 unscathed. Remember those ancient kings founding their temples on the evanescent wind and water of offerings?

And Anita,
Also very, very much FWIW, as I know you have your own very solid relation to the Yi, I do think it's possible to consult too often on the same issue. If Yi is telling you that it meant 59 when it said 59...
A question I find helpful: what am I going to change or do differently as a result of this reading?

I only have half a thought on 59 in this context. An unchanging hexagram might point to something you personally need to understand before things can move on. Perhaps the idea is that this relationship is founded on the flowing waters of change, rather than in the more conventionally solid way? It's hard to believe in for us ordinary mortals - 'no visible means of support', as it were - but I'm coming round to the idea that you and he might be different.

Hope some of this makes some sense to someone...

louise · Jan 10, 2003

Er I really don't think you got anything to be sorry about Lindsay. When I read your response I thought it was pretty brilliant - tactful, sensitive and a great interpretation of 59.

louise · Jan 10, 2003

FWIW ? Can't imagine what it stands for - love to know ?

louise · Jan 10, 2003

Aha - For What Its Worth ? Came up with that after 10 minutes hard thinking.

lindsay · Jan 10, 2003

Dear Hilary and Louise and Anita,

Maybe I?m being a little over-sensitive, but here?s the thing about this situation that bothers me. I feel like a negative reading casts an unintended pall over things whether it is right or wrong. A negative reading is like the toy ball a three year-old baby wants to give you. No matter how innocently and happily the ball is offered, you know the ball is tacky to the touch, and your fingers will be sticky from taking hold of it. But how can you refuse? It never occurs to you. But then you feel that uncomfortable gummy coating on your fingertips . . . .

Anita asks for an interpretation. Baby Lindsay innocently hands her his negative reading. Anita then devotes two longish emails to trying to wipe the negative goo off her hands ? because she knows Lindsay is wrong, yet . . . something makes her need to prove it in detail. Would she have felt that way (defensive) if the interpretation had been positive and wrong?

So that?s the problem with negative readings. Regardless of their validity, they put a snake in the garden. Now Hilary says you have to call it like you see it ? which is true and right if you are obliged to give a reading. But I volunteered. Anita didn?t ask me personally for an opinion, and I could have just held my tongue (what a bizarre image!). Didn?t your mother tell you, ?If you can?t say anything good, then don?t say anything at all??

My only point is I should have listened to Mom.

Lindsay

(BTW Louise, I had a little trouble with FWIW too. I guess I'll have to find a dictionary of net abbreviations to keep up with you guys!)

pam · Jan 11, 2003

Lindsay,

You are such a gentle person, and obviously well acquainted with the I Ching. But Anita DID post her question on this area (as opposed to asking Hilary for a private reading) and addressed it to Fellow Seekers of the Truth....so supposedly she was inviting an answer from anyone with experience and asking for THE TRUTH...

But sometimes people who say they want the truth only want it if it confirms what they want to hear. I thought your answer was very sensitive and beautifully put...and also correct. Maybe what Anita could ask is what direction SHE should be going in now for her own continued growth. If she has such confidence in her relationship with this man, then why all the questions? And if she is not getting enough reassurance from this man, then why not tell HIM of her concerns? This is what an open, honest relationship which would lead to marriage is supposed to be about. If she can't tell him this simple need for more communication now, what would their marriage be like?

It sounds like either the I Ching is what put the doubt into her mind OR the doubt was there and she was looking for someone or something to tell her she was wrong to doubt. If the former was the case, then maybe she should lay the I Ching aside and trust her own inner voice. If the latter was the case, then her doubt has been confirmed.

louise · Jan 11, 2003

Lindsay, I'm thinking alot about this - its a delicate area. Sometimes its kinder to tell the truth even though you know its not what the person wants to hear. It would be more cruel to shore up someones self delusion. Bursting someones bubble can be just unkind - may as well let them learn for themselves. But in this case Anita has asked repeatedly about this matter - shes inviting responses. In this case you were the only one willing to stick your neck out and give an honest and kind response - don't feel bad, you did your best. Whats more i don't even think it was a very negative reading as you include positive suggestions for dealing with the situation.

Furthermore Anita has responded in the same way to me and others when we have responded to her boyfriend questions. She poses a doubt, but when others address that doubt she says there are no doubts only absolute certainty ?

louise · Jan 11, 2003

Just read Pams post - am in total agreement.

hilary · Jan 11, 2003

Forgive me the off-topic post, but since this is a popular/ -ous page at the moment, I thought I'd come here to ask if anyone would like to visit this page about the new chat rooms
Thank you!

bfireman · Jan 12, 2003

I seem to ask the I Ching just as many relationship questions as Anita. I am just too shy to post them here, I guess trying to internalize everything like the typical male. Very interesting comment you made Pam, about doubt being the impetus for questioning the I-Ching, or a divination spurring a response of doubt. I feel sometimes caught in this cycle, and not too clear, most times seeing what I want to see. Only after some time and reflection can I really see the truth as how it relates to the divination and manifested expereince. Don Miguel Ruiz states beautifully that doubt and worry are just "fear with a mask". For me, the yi is such a powerful force and teacher in slowly helping to clear away the clouds, yet I do feel it is very easy to disrespect oneself and spiritual processes by asking too much, too often. When under the influence of doubt, it is so easy to ask and ask and ask until one convinces oneself to see and hear only what one wants to see and hear. Only through time and many wrong turns have I seen this pattern in my own life. One reason this forum is so great, IMHO, is that people do say what they feel and intuit. The truth is not always easy to see and hear. It is really nice to hear so many different opinions in this forum. Rambling a bit, but I think it is kind of relevent.

Anita, I am curious why you think you ask yi so often about your boyfriend. I tend to feel it is doubt and fear leading you, not openess and trust, but that is just my opinion.

Peace to all- B

anita · Jan 13, 2003

Hello Fellow Seekers Brian and Hilary and everyone else,

I know, I know. Why do I ask so often when I know? And when I know I can trust him?

Well, these days, ever since that New Year conbersation with him, I don't ask half as much as I used to, but I still do. You see, it's a habit one can get addicted to -- I think it's just the breathlessness of getting an answer ione has nothing to do with -- I mean an answer that one cannot influence.

Besides, when I talk about him with the Yi (something I've done for 20 years) I feel closer to him although we're so far apart. Also, although I know he keeps his promises, I don't know and neither does he (yet) WHEN it'll happen. I mean his return. Besides, ours is a highly unusual relationship -- in that I'm twice his age and we're so far and he's stilla student and yet we aim to marry some day. More obstacles means more questions.

I have absolutely no problems with your redaing Lindsay. Please read on. It's why I post as they say. Sometimes, others' experiences can add to your interpretations. I think the Yi can be interpreted differently in different situations. I hope I'm right!

Thanks Hilary for understanding what I am about.

Love you all.

Best for your Quest
Anita

Ironic · Feb 16, 2020

lindsay said:
Dear Anita,

You (and only you) are the final authority on how the Yi relates to your affairs. The rest of us can only suggest a few tentative ideas based on our own experience that may or may not apply.

The voice of the Sage seems to be speaking to you very clearly. What greater reassurance can the Yi offer? I am sincerely pleased to hear its messages are so positive for your happiness.

My own interpretation was admittedly faulty and incomplete, but more important it was also perhaps needlessly alarming. There is an old fortune-teller?s confidence trick that recommends using messages like, ?An unexpected problem will soon appear? ? the idea being that such a warning cannot fail to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When we are looking for bad news, we usually have no difficulty finding some. It was not at all my intention to play such a sleazy game. Please don?t let my reading worry you ? it was well-meant, but plainly wrong.

The lesson for me is that it is not a good idea to offer a negative reading to another person unless one has all the facts. Perhaps it is never a good idea under any circumstances.

I?m sorry,

Lindsay

I was recently told that I had a malignant entity attached to me and although I have paid my karmic debt more than fully off there is someone who is Syphoning off my karmic bonus but offloading their karmic debt onto me. Is this a typical blag to get me to invest money into a scam coz it does seem.to be pretty close to the mark.

Ironic · Feb 16, 2020

hilary said:
Forgive me the off-topic post, but since this is a popular/ -ous page at the moment, I thought I'd come here to ask if anyone would like to visit this page about the new chat rooms
Thank you!

post-snow · May 21, 2022

lindsay said:
Dear Hilary and Louise and Anita,

Maybe I?m being a little over-sensitive, but here?s the thing about this situation that bothers me. I feel like a negative reading casts an unintended pall over things whether it is right or wrong. A negative reading is like the toy ball a three year-old baby wants to give you. No matter how innocently and happily the ball is offered, you know the ball is tacky to the touch, and your fingers will be sticky from taking hold of it. But how can you refuse? It never occurs to you. But then you feel that uncomfortable gummy coating on your fingertips . . . .

Anita asks for an interpretation. Baby Lindsay innocently hands her his negative reading. Anita then devotes two longish emails to trying to wipe the negative goo off her hands ? because she knows Lindsay is wrong, yet . . . something makes her need to prove it in detail. Would she have felt that way (defensive) if the interpretation had been positive and wrong?

So that?s the problem with negative readings. Regardless of their validity, they put a snake in the garden. Now Hilary says you have to call it like you see it ? which is true and right if you are obliged to give a reading. But I volunteered. Anita didn?t ask me personally for an opinion, and I could have just held my tongue (what a bizarre image!). Didn?t your mother tell you, ?If you can?t say anything good, then don?t say anything at all??

My only point is I should have listened to Mom.

Lindsay

(BTW Louise, I had a little trouble with FWIW too. I guess I'll have to find a dictionary of net abbreviations to keep up with you guys!)

hello, i believe you did wjat you thoufht was the good thing to do when you offered your readng (and i would really like to know how the situation ended up, i was not sure about the inteprretation) - hpwever what i wanted to say is that i really value your !snake in the garden" self-refplection. i have a friend (acquaintance?) who always find bad things in any sotuation, and expecially in my relationships (haha) - she actually might be right in retrospect but it is certainly a typa of a snake in the garden. it hurts me when she rmeineds me of spme things or always points out about bad things in my relationships or in anythng. i have to somehow be onb guard or not let it hurt me. so, seeing someone so sensitive as to know how such opinions can sting is a very nice thing and i applaud you

moss elk · May 21, 2022

Yi identifies the snakes in the garden.
It doesn't put them there.

Yi will tell one to stop playing with a snake, even when they believe the snake is a bunny, and do not wish to hear it.

One should not encourage
Excessive-Sensitivity.
It is not a virtue.
It's a handicap.

Trojina · May 21, 2022

Good God this thread is from 2003, its nearly 20 years old. Why do people reply to these 19 years later like it's current.

It's actually archived. So Hilary made the last post in 2003 then someone added something in February 2020 and now people reply. I am baffled.

I was Louise and postsnow quotes me from 20 years ago like it's current ?? It's always worth looking at the date.

moss elk · May 22, 2022

Trojina said:
I was Louise and postsnow quotes me from 20 years ago like it's current ?

Weezy, may I offer you something more currant?

Trojina · May 22, 2022

Any experience with hexagram 59?

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