I'm new and need your help with hex. 43

annbistroff · Dec 17, 2006

Hi, I'm new here and excuse me my English (I'm not a native speaker)

Please, help me with the interpretation.
I asked IC today about my new relationshiop: what do I expect of it and what do I do to make it last&..
The background:we don't know each other long, but we like each other very much, the man was quite active for some time, but each time we intend to meet sth happens (we are both too busy, especially he)

. All I wanted to know was if it gonna last and will we have a chance to meet again..
all I've got is: 43, changing to 55 (opposite 23) and 2 moving lines - 2nd and 5th.. Honestly, I don't quite understand what it has to do with my question. I'll much appreciate if you help me with the interpretation, it does mean a lot to me..
(My 2nd and last question to IC was what are the man's intentions about me and what he expects of our relations& the answer was 11, relating to 15..) That was then I was really at a loss.. Please, I need you help and welcome any comments,

Thanks in advance, Anna

dobro p · Dec 18, 2006

annbistroff said:
I asked IC today about my new relationshiop: what do I expect of it and what do I do to make it last&.. all I've got is: 43, changing to 55 (opposite 23) and 2 moving lines - 2nd and 5th..

That's two questions, not one. It makes it more difficult to interpret sometimes when you do that. Anyway, Hex 43 talks about separation and Hex 55 talks about a state of abundance. So, depending on which question you look at, the Yi might be saying: "You can expect the present state of repeated separation to lead to a situation of abundance." As for what you have to do, I'd say something like 'you're separated now for a reason - don't be upset - accept it.

annbistroff said:
(My 2nd and last question to IC was what are the man's intentions about me and what he expects of our relations& the answer was 11, relating to 15..)

Hex 11 is the 'heaven communicating to earth' idea, and Hex 15 is...uh...well, I don't want to be too exact about what it means because people here don't agree about it lol. So, the Yi seems to be saying: "The man's intentions toward you are 'heaven on earth' - love, in other words. Love, which reduces the ordinary tendencies of the ego to the point where you see the other person as divine.

Other interpretations are possible (I've seen them), but I prefer the one I've written here.

willowfox · Dec 18, 2006

"All I wanted to know was if it gonna last and will we have a chance to meet again..
all I've got is: 43, changing to 55 (opposite 23) and 2 moving lines - 2nd and 5th"

Hex 43.2 be alert for any signs of trouble in this relationship, problems that could happen at any time, it is warning you to prepare yourself so they don't affect you.

Hex 43.5 you are having a lot of problems in this relationship but don't give up, try to sort those problems out, keep going.

Hex 55 your relationship with this man will grow, so don't hold back, be open with him, enjoy your time together, you will be lucky. Therefore, be happy while you can, think only about the present. The sun is shining here, so shine with it and make this relationship glow.

So you will meet again and the relationship will grow and flower but nothing lasts forever, but don't worry about the future, just enjoy the now.

"My 2nd and last question to IC was what are the man's intentions about me and what he expects of our relations& the answer was 11, relating to 15."

Hex 11.1 he wants a relationship with you, he wants to be with you, he feels connected to you.

Hex 11.2 I think that he is trying to be kind and tolerant in his own way, he wants you to see things from his point of view. Perhaps he feels that he is trying to help you in some way, that you are in need of a guide/teacher.

Hex 15 I think that he wants you to be yourself, to be open and sincere with him, not to hide things from him or even for you to try and impress him. I would assume that he is looking for a woman who is not in competion with him, a woman who is a woman and not a rival.

annbistroff · Dec 18, 2006

To DOBRO

Thanks a lot! I was really puzzled at those two answers - Breakthrough (43) and Abundance (55)..At first I thought 43 meant the parting for us and was very upset..but the Abundance

Sorry, I reallt feel stupid but don't quite get how the Breakthough/Parting (43) can lead to Abindance (55)..

Hex 11 is the 'heaven communicating to earth' idea, and Hex 15 is...uh...well, I don't want to be too exact about what it means because people here don't agree about it lol. So, the Yi seems to be saying: "The man's intentions toward you are 'heaven on earth' - love, in other words. Love, which reduces the ordinary tendencies of the ego to the point where you see the other person as divine.

Other interpretations are possible (I've seen them), but I prefer the one I've written here.[/QUOTE]

Hope so very much he does feel so..So far we cannot get in touch :mischief:

And it would be really interesting to learn what you think about hex 15 here (if you don't mind)

))

annbistroff · Dec 18, 2006

To Willowfox

Thank you)) I already have some troubles with this relationship - can't get in touch with him and was struck to see 43 as the answer - first I thought it meant parting, i.e. to separate from him.. but another meaning is breakthrough thru communicating, so I hope we'll have a chance to meet and talk. Your interpretation reassured me to go on.

bruce_g · Dec 18, 2006

annbistroff said:
To Willowfox

Thank you)) I already have some troubles with this relationship - can't get in touch with him and was struck to see 43 as the answer - first I thought it meant parting, i.e. to separate from him.. but another meaning is breakthrough thru communicating, so I hope we'll have a chance to meet and talk. Your interpretation reassured me to go on.

For another look at 43, which transitions easily to/with 55:

http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/hex_33-48/hex_e_43.htm

dobro p · Dec 18, 2006

annbistroff said:
To DOBROSorry, I reallt feel stupid but don't quite get how the Breakthough/Parting (43) can lead to Abindance (55)..

Any situation can easily transform into *any* other situation. Step one: you're separated; step two, you enjoy the abundance that comes with a full-on relationship with someone. Simple. As to how you get there, well you have to do some more work lol.

annbistroff said:
And it would be really interesting to learn what you think about hex 15 here (if you don't mind)))

Well, I see Hex 15 as meaning something like 'bringing what's too high down' - a kind of levelling action. So that's what I meant when I talked about love reducing the ego's tricks to the point where you can actually experience another person as divine.

Hope it works out for you.

bruce_g · Dec 18, 2006

Would Dobro or anyone please explain to me how 43 translates to “separation” or "parting"? I've never seen that meaning associated with 43 before.

toganm · Dec 18, 2006

bruce_g said:
Would Dobro or anyone please explain to me how 43 translates to “separation” or "parting"? I've never seen that meaning associated with 43 before.

The yielding at the top, parting; is my understanding
Togan

bruce_g · Dec 18, 2006

Thanks, Togan. New one on me.

martin · Dec 18, 2006

bruce_g said:
Would Dobro or anyone please explain to me how 43 translates to “separation” or "parting"? I've never seen that meaning associated with 43 before.

In my mind 43 is for ever associated with seperation because I got it 4 times in a row (with different changing lines) on the eve that my wife and I decided to seperate (after the decision).

I was not yet very familiar with the IC back then and asked again and again because I didn't understand those awful

sounding lines. And also because I hoped that the IC would come up with something more pleasant.
But it didn't. Very stubborn oracle, the IC.

bruce_g · Dec 19, 2006

martin said:
In my mind 43 is for ever associated with seperation because I got it 4 times in a row (with different changing lines) on the eve that my wife and I decided to seperate (after the decision).

I was not yet very familiar with the IC back then and asked again and again because I didn't understand those awful sounding lines. And also because I hoped that the IC would come up with something more pleasant.
But it didn't. Very stubborn oracle, the IC.

hmm, that’s interesting. The way I see 43 might also have applied to your break up, in that proclaiming ones own authority or independence (what LiSe refers to as “the speaking staff”, or what Bradford calls "Decisiveness") could result in a break up of some kind, because things can no longer be bottled up inside.

I think of 43 more as breaking out of something, the way a chick breaks out of an egg, peeping its arrival to the world. Letting your voice be heard, but not in an injurious manner. That can sometimes bring people closer together, as well as break them apart. Once each brings their inner thoughts, feelings or misgivings to the surface where they can be seen and heard, resolution may be reached, one way or another.

willowfox · Dec 19, 2006

"Would Dobro or anyone please explain to me how 43 translates to “separation” or "parting"? I've never seen that meaning associated with 43 before.'

Hex 43 has nothing to do with separation, such as being apart or separated, or to be separated in the future, in the past or whatever. It is about making a determined effort to change a situation, to overcome a problem or obstactle but not by using force or violence. Here one must proceed cautiously and diplomatically.

willowfox · Dec 19, 2006

"In my mind 43 is for ever associated with seperation because I got it 4 times in a row (with different changing lines) on the eve that my wife and I decided to seperate (after the decision)."

Surely, the decision to separate from you wife was a decision to change a troubled situation by taking decisive action, but using diplomatic methods. Okay you separated but it produced a better situation for the two of you, what was the point in continuing in a troubled relationship. I would imagine the idea of separation was in your heads long before the decision to take action happened, therefore, I don't see in any way that hex 43 is about separation but only about action to do or fix something for the better.

dobro p · Dec 19, 2006

willowfox said:
Hex 43 has nothing to do with separation, such as being apart or separated, or to be separated in the future, in the past or whatever. It is about making a determined effort to change a situation, to overcome a problem or obstactle but not by using force or violence. Here one must proceed cautiously and diplomatically.

More or less, yeah.

guai4: (being) decisive, resolute, certain, committed, resolved, determined, decided, serious; (to) determine, decide, resolve, commit to sth, indict, execute, cut off, censure, displace, purge, uproot, eradicate, divide, part ways, make a breach; (a,the) disclosure, resolution, decision to do sth, decisiveness, satiety; certainly, seriously, decisively, resolutely. (Copied almost accurately from Bradford Hatcher's glossary.)

Ritsema/Karcher: separate, fork, cut off, decide; pull or flow in a different directions; certain, settled, prompt, decisive, stern

The main meaning cluster in Bradford's list seems to me to be the idea of resoluteness or decisiveness, and the main meaning in the RK list seems to be that of separating from sth or going a different way. If you combine them, you get the idea of resolutely separating from something. That meaning really fits the other lines in Hex 43, and contrasts nicely with 44, which means something along the lines of encounter.

But it's not a terribly big distance between 'separating yourself from something' and a 'state of separation'. It's the first steps to getting to the state.

willowfox · Dec 19, 2006

Balkin says that Guai originally meant separation or elimination, the idea being to separate oneself from a problem by eliminating it by taking decisive action to overcome it. So separation here does not mean separation, such as to be separated from somebody or something but to eliminate/get rid of/overcome a problem/situation.
So, is killing your spouse a separation from them or an elimination of a problem/obstacle.
When you go to the toilet you separate yourself from something by taking decisive action to get rid off it, eliminate it, part ways, flow in different directions etc.

Karcher says "deciding/parting describes your situation in terms of resolutely confronting difficulties." Again, the idea of taking action to eliminate a problem.

"Part from the past, separate", again getting rid of some problem that is annoying one.

"Separate, leave something behind", leave the problem, trouble or whatever behind and go on to new and better things.

martin · Dec 19, 2006

Perhaps I was unclear. I didn't mean to say that 43 means separation (in a relationship), only that it is associated with it in my mind because of that incident. It's a subjective thing.
In this respect I'm a bit like the Pavlov dog that has learned to associate food with the sound of a bell.

When 43 comes up in an answer to a relationship question separation is a possibility perhaps, but also not more than that.

heylise · Dec 19, 2006

One of the meanings of guai is forking, a river which bursts through its dams and makes a new branch.
Another meaning is an archer's thimble, which releases the string of the bow, but I am not sure if that also includes the "parting" of the arrow. And finally the ideogram is a hand holding up one half of a tablet. The emperor gave such a half tablet to his trustees as 'identification', and kept the other half.

Two streams now instead of one, two half tablets, hence the meaning of parting.

LiSe

dobro p · Dec 19, 2006

Yes - a unity divided by you decisively separating yourself from it.

And if you compare 43 and 44 (I think comparison of hexagram pairs is very useful) you see both how they differ and what they have in common. How they differ: in 43 you separate yourself from something; in 44 you encounter something. What they have in common: there is a lack of unity between you and something in both hexes. In 43 you separate yourself from it, and in 44 you refrain from uniting with it, but the lack of unity is the common feature.

heylise · Dec 20, 2006

The decisiveness of 43 is what women find attractive in men and the seduction of 44 what men find attractive in women (generalizing of course).

If 43 is always your own decision.. I think it can also be fate or whatever else you cannot hold back however much you try, which causes the river to burst through the dam.

LiSe

dobro p · Dec 20, 2006

heylise said:
The decisiveness of 43 is what women find attractive in men and the seduction of 44 what men find attractive in women (generalizing of course).

Not generalizing, but speaking entirely personally, the most seductive thing about any particular woman is her fondness for romance in general, and with me in particular. Women who enjoy it. Mmm... And for all I know, it might be the same with loads of men. I've never asked lol.

So, what do you mean by 'seductive'?

lightofreason · Dec 21, 2006

43 Breakthrough (Resoluteness)
Seedings, Cuttings, Spread-the-Word
In a context of perseverence we utilise intensity.

"KUAI : seperate, fork, cut off, decide; pull or flow in different directions; certain, settled; prompt, decisive, stern."ERANOS p473

Seeding 'opposes' 23 and ITS focus on pruning. To 'spread THE word' forces differentiating a particular perspective from all others (and so the sense of fork and its robustness etc)

From XORing, the 'mud', the infrastructure, of 43 is described by analogy to 44 ... and so the seeding nature emerges from a generic focus on persuading/seducing - reverse the XOR and for 44 we find ITS infrastructure described by analogy to the generic qualities of 43 in its 'pushy' nature.

43 shares space with 01 where 43 is unconditional in its focus, 01 is more conditional, focused, particular.

If 43 represents an unstable state, the best fit agent to restore stability is described by analogy to 40. (we derive the 63-ness).

These and the other 62 harmonics of the hexagram cover its general meaning - then comes the singular additions, the personal customisations.

annbistroff · Dec 22, 2006

Thanks to everyone

No news so far - and I'm a bit annoyed about it already :mischief:

We've talked over the phone, intended to meet but he is so busy that our plans failed twice((( at the same time he always warns me beforehand, we plan another date and.. he is busy again. I got so angry with him yesterday and asked Iching 'what is this relation coming to because I don't understand a thing?!'

and I got 31.1 -> 49. Coupling and revolutionary change..LOL..Don't even expect any revolutionary change with such a busy man :mischief:

I'm thinking of giving it all up..or shouldn't I? Both time I ask Iching about this man I get some positive answers giving me hope- first 43 (the separation which actually is taking place now, cause we have no chance to meet) -> 55 and now 31.

willowfox · Dec 22, 2006

"asked Iching 'what is this relation coming to because I don't understand a thing?!' and I got 31.1 -> 49."

Hex 31.1 there is a small spark of life present in this potential relationship.

Hex 49 is about change, the way the story has being going so far is now due for a change, it cannot go on the way it has been. He must be confronted and told that you are fed with hanging around, waiting on his lordship to see you. It is now either to be a proper relationship or nothing at all, so persevere with him and try to get him to change, if he does not then the revolution will be in your mind and heart, you will no longer wait around for him. If he changes then fantastic for you all your regrets will disappear, and the potential relationship becomes a solid reality but if he does not then time for you to change. Anyway, something must happen and happen soon in this relationship affair.

annbistroff · Dec 22, 2006

Oh thanks a lot

The revolution is definitely going on in my mind. I'm sick and tired of delays..
I only hope that 31 is about sth good for us - doesn't it say about the union in some way..or it isn't that clear? 49 is closely connected to 44 (the model of change here), so I for a moment hoped we will finally meet alone (before we always met with our friends around). I made my position clear to him on Monday and he said he honestly wants to see me and is interested in our relationship..but yesterday all our plans were ruined again, although we agreed them on Tuesday.he was very busy again and said we will not be able to meet this week. I'm getting impatient and start to think of leting it all go...
Isn't 31 about joint effort, interaction..? I thought it meant some positive answer to my question.. But with such a partner I'm no longer sure :mischief:

And should I really persevere after I clearly told him all I had in mind (including my dissatisfaction)?

annbistroff · Dec 22, 2006

promised to myself that this is gonna be my last question to IC regarding this situation

so the question was - how do i behave (actively/ passively)to make some progress in these relations (i.e. should i call him myself or just sit and wait)? and got 44.6 -> 28.. as far as i see it says - calm down and don't control things.. or..44 is about seduction??? hmm, this will definitely be my last question to IC about this man. too many answers and no action

lightofreason · Dec 23, 2006

annbistroff said:
??? hmm, this will definitely be my last question to IC about this man. too many answers and no action

try this:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusEProact.html

willowfox · Dec 23, 2006

" so the question was - how do i behave (actively/ passively)to make some progress in these relations (i.e. should i call him myself or just sit and wait)? and got 44.6 -> 28.."

Hex 44.6 this is the time to withdraw from contact, don't do anything, don't say anything, he will mostly likely be annoyed/angry but take no notice. Wait it out but soften your attitude a bit as well, stop being too rigid.

Hex 28 the problem with this relationship has become too heavy and is near its breaking point. But stand firm and let the reality of the situation penetrate your friends head. Anyway, stop being angry as it serves no purpose, and if you have to be alone, take no notice, remain cheerful. Take no forceful action of any kind and try to understand what is causing the problem in the first place, perhaps your attitude is at fault. Things have to change and a new balance has to be achieved here, of course you have to protect your own interests even if it means being alone but be as happy as possible in whatever you do.

annbistroff · Dec 23, 2006

To Lightofreason
thanks, it was really useful. If I get it right I should give him freedom to act, to give him the initiative..though I'm not sure he'll take it. then I don't understand what hex-s 55 and 31 were for. I thought it meant some continuation of our relations, so far the relations are stuck..

annbistroff · Dec 23, 2006

To Willowfox

Thanks, I agree, it is only very difficult for me..(( I like things clear and always speak open..
28 is about too much yang, maybe I was too pushy.. I was too much trying to control the situation, but now, after 44 I'm not sure about our future together - although when I asked IC about the future of our relations 55 and 31 (and his attitude 11) gave me some hope and even 49, revolutionary change, I interpreted as the change in him..(wishful thinking).. doesn't 31 speak about being together..maybe I should learn to read IC between the lines. I'm upset...besides, 44 is about Coming to meet..maybe we'll finally meet

I'm new and need your help with hex. 43

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