52. Ken / Keeping Still, Mountain

Sparhawk · Feb 2, 2009

barbra said:
"The heart thinks constantly."

I am speaking to a woman from Japan. She says, "I think that . . . " and at the same time she places her right hand on a spot just above her heart. She does not point her finger at her head, the way a woman from the west might do. You see, it all depends on where your thinking takes place . . .

Once you understand the metaphorical mind of East Asians, this isn't surprising. They do have the character xin, 心, which means both "heart" and "mind/thoughts"

meng · Feb 2, 2009

Many males think with their d***, as expressed by rappers, who are frequently seen fondly grabbing their crotches when expressing their hearts. But neither the d*** nor the heart actually thinks. The heart is the eardrum of the soul.

bamboo · Feb 2, 2009

the Heart Thinks:..

After extensive research, one of the early pioneers in neurocardiology, Dr. J. Andrew Armour, introduced the concept of a functional "heart brain" in 1991. His work revealed that the heart has a complex intrinsic nervous system that is sufficiently sophisticated to qualify as a "little brain" in its own right. The heart’s brain is an intricate network of several types of neurons, neurotransmitters, proteins and support cells like those found in the brain proper. Its elaborate circuitry enables it to act independently of the cranial brain – to learn, remember, and even feel and sense. The recent book Neurocardiology, edited by Dr. Armour and Dr. Jeffrey Ardell, provides a comprehensive overview of the function of the heart’s intrinsic nervous system and the role of central and peripheral autonomic neurons in the regulation of cardiac function. The nervous system pathways between the heart and brain are shown in Figure 2.

The heart’s nervous system contains around 40,000 neurons, called sensory neurites, which detect circulating hormones and neurochemicals and sense heart rate and pressure information. Hormonal, chemical, rate and pressure information is translated into neurological impulses by the heart’s nervous system and sent from the heart to the brain through several afferent (flowing to the brain) pathways. It is also through these nerve pathways that pain signals and other feeling sensations are sent to the brain. These afferent nerve pathways enter the brain in an area called the medulla, located in the brain stem. The signals have a regulatory role over many of the autonomic nervous system signals that flow out of the brain to the heart, blood vessels and other glands and organs. However, they also cascade up into the higher centers of the brain, where they may influence perception, decision making and other cognitive processes.

Dr. Armour describes the brain and nervous system as a distributed parallel processing system consisting of separate but interacting groups of neuronal processing centers distributed throughout the body. The heart has its own intrinsic nervous system that operates and processes information independently of the brain or nervous system. This is what allows a heart transplant to work: Normally, the heart communicates with the brain via nerve fibers running through the vagus nerve and the spinal column. In a heart transplant, these nerve connections do not reconnect for an extended period of time, if at all; however, the transplanted heart is able to function in its new host through the capacity of its intact, intrinsic nervous system.

The Heart Brain

The intrinsic cardiac nervous system, or heart brain, is made up of complex ganglia, containing afferent (receiving) local circuit (interneurons) and efferent (transmitting) sympathetic and parasympathetic neurons. Multifunctional sensory neurites, which are distributed throughout the heart, are sensitive to many types of sensory input originating from within the heart itself. The intrinsic cardiac ganglia integrate messages from the brain and other processing centers throughout the body with information received from the cardiac sensory neurites. Once information has been processed by the heart’s intrinsic neurons, the appropriate signals are sent to the sinoatrial and atrioventricular nodes as well as the muscles in the heart. Thus, under normal physiological conditions, the heart’s intrinsic nervous system plays an important role in much of the routine control of cardiac function, independent of the central nervous system. Dr. Armour and his colleagues have shown that the heart’s intrinsic nervous system is vital for the maintenance of cardiovascular stability and efficiency, and that without it, the heart cannot operate properly.

Figure 2.
The neural communication pathways between the heart and the brain. The heart’s intrinsic nervous system consists of ganglia, which contain local circuit neurons of several types, and sensory neurites, which are distributed throughout the heart. The intrinsic ganglia process and integrate inflowing information from the extrinsic nervous system and from the sensory neurites within the heart. The extrinsic cardiac ganglia, located in the thoracic cavity, have direct connections to organs such as the lungs and esophagus and are also indirectly connected via the spinal cord to many other organs, including the skin and arteries. The "afferent" (flowing to the brain) parasympathetic information travels from the heart to the brain through the vagus nerve to the medulla, after passing through the nodose ganglion. The sympathetic afferent nerves first connect to the extrinsic cardiac ganglia (also a processing center), then to the dorsal root ganglion and the spinal cord. Once afferent signals reach the medulla, they travel to the subcortical areas (thalamus, amygdala, etc.) and then to the cortical areas.

The Heart as a Hormonal Gland

Another component of the heart-brain communication system was provided by researchers studying the hormonal system. The heart was reclassified as an endocrine or hormonal gland, when in 1983 a hormone produced and released by the heart called atrial natriuretic factor (ANF) was isolated. This hormone exerts its effects widely: on the blood vessels themselves, on the kidneys and the adrenal glands and on a large number of regulatory regions in the brain. Dr. Armour and his students also found that the heart contains a cell type known as "intrinsic cardiac adrenergic" (ICA) cells. These cells are classified as "adrenergic" because they synthesize and release catecholamines (norepinephrine and dopamine), neurotransmitters once thought to be produced only by neurons in the brain and ganglia outside the heart. More recently still, it was discovered that the heart also secretes oxytocin, commonly referred to as the "love" or "bonding hormone." Beyond its well-known functions in childbirth and lactation, recent evidence indicates that this hormone is also involved in cognition, tolerance, adaptation, complex sexual and maternal behaviors as well as in the learning of social cues and the establishment of enduring pair bonds. Remarkably, concentrations of oxytocin in the heart are as high as those found in the brain.

Had the complexity of the heart’s intrinsic nervous system and the extensive influence of its hormonal secretions been more widely understood by the scientific community while the Laceys were doing their research, their theories might have been accepted far earlier; however, their insight and experimentation played an important role in elucidating the basic physiological and psychological processes that connect mind and body. In 1977, Dr. Francis Waldropin, Director of the National Institute of Mental Health, stated in a review article of the Laceys’ work that: "Their intricate and careful procedures, combined with their daring theories, have produced work that has stirred controversy as well as promise. In the long run, their research may tell us much about what makes each of us a whole person and may suggest techniques that can restore a distressed person to health."

Indeed, this prediction has come to pass. Doc Childre and the Institute of HeartMath have built upon the work of others such as the Laceys and Dr. Armour to develop practical interventions that incorporate the understanding that the heart profoundly affects perception, awareness and intelligence. This technology has now helped thousands of individuals from many walks of life lead more productive, healthy and fulfilling lives by learning to live more with heart and mind in synchrony, operating from a constructive synergy of the intelligence of both mind and heart.

frank_r · Feb 2, 2009

The heart and the heart master

In Chinese TCM theorie the heart is the house of the spirits, the Shen. The heart is the emperor, the part of the human body that is connected with the TAO, it is connected with the past, the future and the now. The expression of the heart is the number one, and one is no real number because it is everyting.
The Shen is the connection with the Universe. The Shen will always be the same, you are still the same you on the time you were born and when you die. The heart is that part of you that is outside time.
The ethereal soul(Hun for the Chinese that has his residence in the blood and the liver) is that part of the body that lives for 3 generations. After3 generations you are forgotten. You remember your grandparents but after you die they are forgotten. Than their souls have rest. Only when you are still remembered than you are still on earth, that's why some people didn't want to have their photograph taken.

The Heart master is the physical heart, this gives you the possibility to live during this time. This part is connected with the thinking proces of the past and the future, it is your false self your ego.
The Heart master gives protection to the heart, it closes the heart when there is no trust. It opens the heart when it feels safe. When the heart is always closed then there is no connection with the TAO, and then you cannot learn anything. And when you cannot learn anything for a long time this part of the heart dies(a heart attack)
Looking to the image of the heart - xin 心 you see a sort of a bowl who can communicate with the 5 spirits(emotions) through the arteries on the sides.
Looking to the heart master 心主 first you have the heart than you have the master, the representation of the active part of the heart. It's the idea of activity.
In the stories about Lao Zi they say that he has no heart master. He is that open that he is the heart of the people.

When you have a look to the heart of a foetus than the left and right part of the heart are connected. There is no dualisme in the heart possible. there is still no ego. When the baby is born than the so called ductus arteriosus goes away. This arterie is necesary because the foetus gets oxygen from the blood of the mother and not from the lungs. The physical heart and the blood of the mother and child are one.

Fetal circulation Heart;

Circulation Heart after birth;

With the people who are born with Downs syndom there is still a connection between the two parts of the heart possible. Many have heart problems and get operated, when doing this they often loose there special radiance. But without doing this they die very young because they are to fulnerable.
They also need somebody to protect and feed them otherwise they die. They usually don't get older than 45 years, the time that there own parents die.

Frank

ravenstar · Feb 3, 2009

Wow what a fascinating study on the heart! First Bamboo's post and then Frank's. Frank some of the information you've given us, I was unaware of, especially of Down Syndrome children and the foetal heart.

I also love what Frank wrote....

Looking to the image of the heart - xin 心 you see a sort of a bowl who can communicate with the 5 spirits(emotions) through the arteries on the sides.
Looking to the heart master 心主 first you have the heart than you have the master, the representation of the active part of the heart. It's the idea of activity.
In the stories about Lao Zi they say that he has no heart master. He is that open that he is the heart of the people.

So this bowl, is it a cauldron of sorts? And this bowl needs protection....which would be the sac around the heart the pericardium which has been known as the bodyguard?

People's hearts that are open 'see', 'hear' and 'feel' other people, their energies move out towards others because they long to make a connection.

What of people or children who are dylexic Frank? (learning and reading disorders = emotional reactions)It is said with these folks their meridians are actually reversed....and this opens their nervous and etheric system to such a max that they can't handle it all, which causes them to blow a fuse. While we're at it, what about ADD and ADHD? Do all these have something in common with this too?

It is said dyslexic children are connected more to the spiritual then the physical. We think inside the box, they think outside the box... they're intuitive and creative and in many cases quite brilliant! Mona Lisa Schulz, a medical intuitive is a dyslexic and by gawd her ability to connect with others is remarkable!

This probably is leading us to the next line.

ravenstar

meng · Feb 3, 2009

Frank, are you saying that the Heart master is itself the mountain? Or, is the mountain that which is before dualism?

frank_r · Feb 3, 2009

ravenstar said:
So this bowl, is it a cauldron of sorts? And this bowl needs protection....which would be the sac around the heart the pericardium which has been known as the bodyguard?

People's hearts that are open 'see', 'hear' and 'feel' other people, their energies move out towards others because they long to make a connection.

What of people or children who are dylexic Frank? (learning and reading disorders = emotional reactions)It is said with these folks their meridians are actually reversed....and this opens their nervous and etheric system to such a max that they can't handle it all, which causes them to blow a fuse. While we're at it, what about ADD and ADHD? Do all these have something in common with this too?

It is said dyslexic children are connected more to the spiritual then the physical. We think inside the box, they think outside the box... they're intuitive and creative and in many cases quite brilliant! Mona Lisa Schulz, a medical intuitive is a dyslexic and by gawd her ability to connect with others is remarkable!

This probably is leading us to the next line.

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

The extra ordinary meridians are already mentioned in the Nei Jing(2800 B.Chr.), but not in a real systematic way. In the Nan Jing(200 B.Chr) they are presented into detail. Only during the Ming Dynasty(1368-1644) there came a description from the whole system,. In 1493 A.D. Xu Feng wrote a very clear system, he assigned trigrams to these extra ordinary meridians. He mentioned the so called open and closing points. But he never explained why he assigned these trigrams and these opening and closing points.
And this is one of the last mysteries in acupuncture world. And you know with a mysterie there is always a lot of speculation and discussion.

Also here the so called doorkeeper/bodyguard energy which is connected with Yang wei mai and hexagram 51 Thunder. Here the opening point is 3 Warmer 5. This is the opening of the yang space the outside universe ans space.
On the other hand the so called Yin Wei Mai, the courtlady energy, the energy that gives a atmosphere of protection and which is connected with hexagram 52 the mountain. Which has as openingpoint heart master 6, the opening of the inner(personal space).

And with your questions about the dyslectic and the ADD and ADHD children there is the question which road to use. Do you take the Thunder away(hex 51) or do you give the mountain(52) energy?

When you have a closer look to the ADD and ADHD category children you can say that their doorkeeper energy(connected with trigram thunder and hex 51), is quit strong. The biggest problem is the inner space, so usually the best treatment is to make this inner space contact with the inner TAO stronger and make them less sensible for the outer TAO, the outer space.

My wife who is working as a teacher with these children said to me about this group. Some know that they act in a way that is not good for them: One said to here: Sorry, I know I'm wrong but I can't help it, it is stronger than me. It is hard for them to be in there inner space, to climb up that mountain in there own. They rather be that thunder in the outside world. That feels a lot less solitaire.

Frank

frank_r · Feb 3, 2009

meng said:
Frank, are you saying that the Heart master is itself the mountain? Or, is the mountain that which is before dualism?

Hello Bruce,

Thats a interesting own. Yes I would say that the heart master itself is the connection with the heart in the form of a mountain. When you can be as a mountain(your personal earth) than you can be connected with this time, the now. Because when you have no heart master- no ego you need somebody else that protects you(like the children with Down sydrom, or the foetus) or your are like a real Sage.

And is the mountain that before dualisme?I don't think so, but thats only intuitive. But I can explain that only in a technical way. In my heart I would say there is only TAO emptiness and onneness before dualisme. But how do you see mountain in this regard?

Frank

meng · Feb 3, 2009

Thanks, Frank.

There's strong similarity between the Heart master and the mythical Myth Man, I've talked about before in a 7 thread (I think..). Using the Myth Man figure, a simile of the Heart master, the function is to maintain order and stability within the dualistic world, to which it is limited. Very 52-like.

ginnie · Feb 3, 2009

The Dog

frank_r said:
And with your questions about the dyslectic and the ADD and ADHD children there is the question which road to use. Do you take the Thunder away(hex 51) or do you give the mountain(52) energy?

When you have a closer look to the ADD and ADHD category children you can say that their doorkeeper energy(connected with trigram thunder and hex 51), is quit strong. The biggest problem is the inner space, so usually the best treatment is to make this inner space contact with the inner TAO stronger and make them less sensible for the outer TAO, the outer space.

My wife who is working as a teacher with these children said to me about this group. Some know that they act in a way that is not good for them: One said to here: Sorry, I know I'm wrong but I can't help it, it is stronger than me. It is hard for them to be in there inner space, to climb up that mountain in there own. They rather be that thunder in the outside world. That feels a lot less solitaire.

Frank

Yes, there seem to be a lot of children and adults who are not in control of their impulses at all. We see them walking down the street yelling into their cell phones at their so-called "loved ones."

Mountain (52) is the dog. The Year of the Dog is one of the Chinese zodiac signs. The Dog is considered to be the friendliest sign in the Chinese zodiac and also the protector, a watchdog.

Many people cannot sit still to meditate I have noticed. They try to jump up and do something else. Maybe they'll never be able to do a sitting meditation. But many of these types of overly stimulated (from the outside) people can do a music meditation, or a movement meditation. There must be some kind of meditation for everybody, I think, if the effort is made to find it.

ginnie · Feb 3, 2009

The stomach thinks

Having read Bamboo's marvelous posting on how the heart is/has a brain, I think all the organs must in fact function like brains, too.

It therefore follows that my stomach is a brain, something I have suspected all along. My stomach-brain is rather a slow learner, because it frequently likes too much chocolate, for example.

The mountain (52) as a closed refrigerator; door not to be opened.

Anyway, why are the upper and lower trigrams sometimes considered to be "mutually opposed"? Is it because Mountain = youngest son, and those little boys have to fight with each other?

Tohpol · Feb 3, 2009

barbra said:
Having read Bamboo's marvelous posting on how the heart is/has a brain, I think all the organs must in fact function like brains, too.

You took the words right out of my mouth. A system of diffused intelligence occuring throughout the body with various foci in and around the organs and/or "centres" is the way I see it. Work by Rupert Sheldrake and Psychneuroimmunologist (!) Candice Pert seems to offer a very great possibility that we are only just beginning to realise this. Maybe the brain and the heart are the King and Queen of the body symbolism and how the flow of information (thoughts /feelings are processed?

Great thread btw.

Topal

meng · Feb 3, 2009

topal said:
Maybe the brain and the heart are the King and Queen of the body symbolism and how the flow of information (thoughts /feelings are processed?

This is how I see it, thinking and feeling centers.

meng · Feb 3, 2009

I think this thread has kinda fallen off a steep mountain cliff with touchy feely stuff. Doesn't seem 52-ish to me. But it's just my opinion.

Tohpol · Feb 3, 2009

meng said:
I think this thread has kinda fallen off a steep mountain cliff with touchy feely stuff. Doesn't seem 52-ish to me. But it's just my opinion.

Yeah, it's kinda hanging by a thread....(cymbal crash)

Topal

meng · Feb 3, 2009

meng · Feb 3, 2009

Let me back up a bit, cuz I probably sounded too much like stone.

I didn’t mean to pee on anyone’s tree, but it seemed to me the thread had become too, I dunno.. mushy to be about something as solid and nonnegotiable as a mountain.

Sparhawk · Feb 3, 2009

meng said:
I didn’t mean to pee on anyone’s tree, but it seemed to me the thread had become too, I dunno.. mushy to be about something as solid and nonnegotiable as a mountain.

bamboo · Feb 4, 2009

I dunno, the mountain is non-negotiable but not static. Sure it's inmovable, but that is what gives the depth of feeling its base. How many dreams are inspired by the mountain, how lofty the thoughts and feelings that arise in the presence of Mountain. Meditation stills the mind, but sets the heart free in a sense.
And the concept of "entrainment" used by the people at Heartmath is one in which the rythyms of stillness and peace activate a vibration , and actually call others into attunement with the vibration. Makes people touchy-feely, mushy because it opens the heart. Perhaps the only thing non-negotiable is BEingness but that gives rise to 10,000 things .

Its definitely not macho. it stands tall but weathers every kind of emotion, calls evrything home to it, sanctifies.

Courage is the price life exacts
for granting peace
The soul that knows it not knows no release
From little things
Knows not the livid loneliness of fear
Nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear
The Sound of Wings

ravenstar · Feb 4, 2009

frank_r said:
Hello Janice,

The extra ordinary meridians are already mentioned in the Nei Jing(2800 B.Chr.), but not in a real systematic way. In the Nan Jing(200 B.Chr) they are presented into detail. Only during the Ming Dynasty(1368-1644) there came a description from the whole system,. In 1493 A.D. Xu Feng wrote a very clear system, he assigned trigrams to these extra ordinary meridians. He mentioned the so called open and closing points. But he never explained why he assigned these trigrams and these opening and closing points.
And this is one of the last mysteries in acupuncture world. And you know with a mysterie there is always a lot of speculation and discussion.

Also here the so called doorkeeper/bodyguard energy which is connected with Yang wei mai and hexagram 51 Thunder. Here the opening point is 3 Warmer 5. This is the opening of the yang space the outside universe ans space.
On the other hand the so called Yin Wei Mai, the courtlady energy, the energy that gives a atmosphere of protection and which is connected with hexagram 52 the mountain. Which has as openingpoint heart master 6, the opening of the inner(personal space).

And with your questions about the dyslectic and the ADD and ADHD children there is the question which road to use. Do you take the Thunder away(hex 51) or do you give the mountain(52) energy?

When you have a closer look to the ADD and ADHD category children you can say that their doorkeeper energy(connected with trigram thunder and hex 51), is quit strong. The biggest problem is the inner space, so usually the best treatment is to make this inner space contact with the inner TAO stronger and make them less sensible for the outer TAO, the outer space.

My wife who is working as a teacher with these children said to me about this group. Some know that they act in a way that is not good for them: One said to here: Sorry, I know I'm wrong but I can't help it, it is stronger than me. It is hard for them to be in there inner space, to climb up that mountain in there own. They rather be that thunder in the outside world. That feels a lot less solitaire.

Frank

Wow Thanks Frank!

It must be very rewarding for your wife to work with these children....each of them are so unique in the way they communicate with the world.

[QUOTE[And with your questions about the dyslectic and the ADD and ADHD children there is the question which road to use. Do you take the Thunder away(hex 51) or do you give the mountain(52) energy?[/QUOTE]

This is a very powerful question that definitely needs us to meditate upon to connect with that intuitive part of our being. Let's see what we come up with!

ravenstar

ravenstar · Feb 4, 2009

meng said:
Let me back up a bit, cuz I probably sounded too much like stone.

I didn’t mean to pee on anyone’s tree, but it seemed to me the thread had become too, I dunno.. mushy to be about something as solid and nonnegotiable as a mountain.

It seems to me that this Hex is focussing on 'feeling' our bodily sensations. Right now we are labeling the different parts of the body to understand the area of focus, but in certain meditations we are meant to experience the feelings and sensations of each part. We will eventually move out of the head, out of the past with its regrets, its feelings of guilt, its resentments, into the present moment. We also will move our heads out of the future with its fears, its anticipations, its dreams, its dreads, back to the present moment.

As Barbra menitoned some people find it hard to meditate. When I'm settling down to do one sometimes my mind does spin off into anticipation of what lies in store for me for the rest of the day.....or things that I've forgotten or need to do, seem to appear from no where. I tell myself, isn't that interesting, make a note of them, and this seems to calm my racey mind so I can continue.

Also Barbra mentioned another important point, 'the ego'. We are working with Line 3 which also connects with the Third Chakra/Solar Plexus, which also focuses on Personality Development. When the solar plexus is healthy, our physical as well as spiritual sight improves.....but if we don't have a strong Lower Will, we either will find meditation difficult or will not understand the spiritual journey we've undertaken.

Meditation helps us to attain spiritual goals which we can only 'see' when we surrender our ego to a higher will and purpose. And if our ego/will is strong then it has a better chance of becoming an instrument for the higher will.

This is perhaps why the pendulum has swung hard in the opposite direction to learn from Frank, Bamboo, Barbra and all the challenges some students/children/adults are faced with (dyslexic, ADD, ADHD) and as Frank mentioned, 'take the thunder away or give the mountain energy.

ravenstar

Trojina · Feb 4, 2009

bamboo said:
I dunno, the mountain is non-negotiable but not static. Sure it's inmovable, but that is what gives the depth of feeling its base. How many dreams are inspired by the mountain, how lofty the thoughts and feelings that arise in the presence of Mountain. Meditation stills the mind, but sets the heart free in a sense.
And the concept of "entrainment" used by the people at Heartmath is one in which the rythyms of stillness and peace activate a vibration , and actually call others into attunement with the vibration. Makes people touchy-feely, mushy because it opens the heart. Perhaps the only thing non-negotiable is BEingness but that gives rise to 10,000 things .

It says in Wilhelm

Keeping still. Keeping his back still
So that he no longer feels his body
He goes into his courtyard
And does not see his people
No blame

He isn't opening his heart to people, he isn't even seeing them, they aren't even there to him . Doesn't Lise say somewhere that 52 shows a figure looking away ? As much as 52 may be still as in peaceful it is also still as in supreme indifference. A mountain is hard and inhospitable and has no regard for your survival which is why climbing it alone isn't a great idea ...not that the 52 mountains have any climbers on them though some will say they have lol

Of course his heart may be open in that although he is with no person his heart is with everyone...on a different level, the hermit who expresses love for mankind by withdrawal and prayer

Funny I think this thread stopped somewhere...or everyone has such completely different agendas or perspectives on it theres no progress..everyone just following their own train of thought...we will be stuck on 52.3 forever....I've an idea....

Trojina · Feb 4, 2009

Six in the fourth place means:

Keeping his trunk still
No blame.

(This line is about an elephant)

I don't want Rosada to come back in a month and find us still on 52.3 ...but don't let me rush you :mischief:

meng · Feb 4, 2009

Couple thoughts on what's been said...

I agree, bamboo, the mountain is very inspirational. I think a big part of the reason is because it sits still, doesn't get swept along with emotions and such. I think quite a lot of what's been discussed here is closer to 22 (fire on the mountain) than about 52.

I have for 52: Stable - Living things make their home in what is secure.

There's a great attraction to what will sit still, while we dance our feelings to it. The lack of interaction insures that we have all the attention! Very 22.

I think every Chingster, new and old, receives mostly good vibes from 52. For me, it relieves me of responsibility to care what's going on around me. lol

From a worship song...

I go to the rock of my salvation
I go to the stone that the builders rejected
I go to the mountain
and the mountain stands by me

When the earth all around is sinking sand
on Christ, that solid rock, I stand
When I need a shelter
when I need a friend
I go to the rock.

That's how I view 52.

But, there's the other side, too. Obstinate and inert. Well, except that he can't resist the persevering influence of wind. What makes a mountain live are the things which cling to it and live on it (ie fire, 22). It even gives the recluse a place, 56.

frank_r · Feb 4, 2009

trojan said:
As much as 52 may be still as in peaceful it is also still as in supreme indifference. A mountain is hard and inhospitable and has no regard for your survival which is why climbing it alone isn't a great idea ...not that the 52 mountains have any climbers on them though some will say they have lol..

Hello Trojan,

Yes thats more than true, I made in the eighties a long trip through the Andes in Peru(I was 20 years old), The first day I felt realy great it was that beautifull everywhere. I made lots of photographes and almost run up the hills to see the next view. My wife said to me to calm down but i couldnt stop to be excited.
The next day I realy felt ill and had a terible headache. My nose started to bleed and did this for almost 24 hours. The next couple of days I couldn't sleep anymore.
I got some herbal medicine from the Indians that were living in the mountains. After we reached the the top(5000 meter) we walked down to the village. But I was still very ill, I was very tired and couldn't eat. I had altitude sickness, but didn't knew what it was at that moment only after we went to a place that was not so high anymore the complaints went away.

But after this incident I knew that you can't beat a mountain, you need to have respect for the mountain. Years later I did a trip through the Himalaya and now I knew to be very respectfull to the mountain. Only then you can get to know that part in yourself. This time I had no problems at all.

Frank

frank_r · Feb 4, 2009

meng said:
Let me back up a bit, cuz I probably sounded too much like stone.

I didn’t mean to pee on anyone’s tree, but it seemed to me the thread had become too, I dunno.. mushy to be about something as solid and nonnegotiable as a mountain.

Hi Bruce, is there a tree at the top?
You brought some extra yang in here, you want to speed up the pace here. You want to go quicker to the summit? Now you are the fire on the top, wait a little than the others can follow.

Frank

meng · Feb 4, 2009

Actually, Frank, I'm more interested in getting to the bottom of 52 rather than to the top.

my_key · Feb 4, 2009

This thread seems have us wandering along a mountain path with the winds blowing around and about us and the mountain. The mountain is sitting there watching us and we look to be blowing around the edges. We are going touchy feely and what a great place to be that is, we are seeing the chakras and the meridians going about there tasks quietly and without any fuss and all together we are understanding better that getting out of the head and into the great within is a place of stillness and comfort. We have seen aspects of focusing on the end ( let's get going) rather than just enjoying the journey of the thread. Individual mountains coming together to make a larger mountain. But watch out cos the mountain will come back to get you if you don't respect it. Too much stillness may turn the balance the wrong way.
Many people are wanting/needing to dwell in the place of 52.3. The last vestiges of the inner. Reluctant to step out into the external wilderness and choices of 52.4.

Wilhelm says :"True quiet means keeping still when the time has come to keep still, and going forward when the time has come to go forward. In this way rest and
movement are in agreement with the demands of the time, and thus there is
light in life."

Are we at that point now? Have we developed enough calmness in the thread? Do we now have the courage to step into 52.4 and continue with our meandering or do we need more clarification of internal stillness?

Mike

Trojina · Feb 4, 2009

each to his own i suppose.

frank_r · Feb 4, 2009

When you look to trigram mountain, in the order of Fu Shi this stands in the Nord -west on this spot is standing trigram Heaven in the King Wen sequence. So the Form hexagram of 52 is hexagram 1. there will be a change in the "idea world" to the world of reality. The idea becomes reality.(what they call immanence(is this a English word?) the opposite of trancendance in philosophy.
This always works in a loop. 1 becomes 30, 30 becomes 51, 51 becomes 52, 52 becomes 1 etc.
So the idea's of 52 we personally have here brings us all to the creativity or tranquility of 1. the flow of the energy of 52 is towards 1.

Frank

52. Ken / Keeping Still, Mountain

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