What Is That Line 55.1 All About? Love?

ginnie · Jun 14, 2011

It seems to me that 55 is about bringing magnitude to another or to several others. This is somewhat similar to the 'helping' in 8, but on a much larger scale.

With 55.1, Fourth Yang goes to First Yang, and since they are both yang, it is said, "They are alike." It doesn't matter whether the master and counterpart are two men, two women, or a man and a woman.

Cleary asks: "If people are equals, how can they consent to follow another?" They consent because life events have presented them with the same difficulty, so they put aside their differences and cooperate.

Who goes to whom? Does that matter?

Lynn has a note on this: "Kong Yingha comments: Fourth Yang forms a relationship with First Yang in such a way that both are masters, in the sense of host and guest [taking turns]. If we take it that First Yang goes to Fourth Yang, we consider that Fourth Yang is the host or master....If one goes from Fourth Yang to First yang, then First Yang is considered the host or master...."

That makes it a question of hospitality. One opens the door to the other.

When querants get 55.1, they often ask if they have just met their Soul Mate. In a way they have, as this is said to be a fated relationship. But as is noted by Lynn, they are not resonate partners.

Alfred Huang says that the fourth line does not correspond with the bottom line. But the bottom line thinks of the fourth line as "his corresponding lord." Many have said that the fourth line actually corresponds with the second line.

Am I wrong, or is there a veil of illusion here, a blindness on the part of First Yang? First Yang might feel compatible with Fourth Yang, but perhaps Fourth Yang is not so deluded on this point. Fourth Yang is a yang line in a lesser position, and perhaps has a clearer view of the limited possibilities inherent in this 'non-resonant relationship.'

People tend to see all relationships in terms of dating/mating/matrimonial relationships, but in the I Ching we certainly do see other types of relationships, and this seems to be one of them ... This is a relationship between two people who happened to find themselves in the same boat, with similar 'issues.'

What is meant by a non-resonant relationship?

Is 'non-resonant partner' a contradiction in terms?

How do we personally know when the 'complete cycle of time' has ended'?

What if the other one does not feel that the 'complete cycle of time' has ended?

chingching · Jun 14, 2011

Is 'non-resonant partner' a contradiction in terms?

Sort of, its more that for some stages of growth you need conflict. A person who is wise 'noble' (or operating at the fourth line in your example above) knows when they are in one of these relationships or have met a 'non-resonant partner' and either untangles themselves or doesnt tangle to begin with (doesnt mean shutting the person out).

I guess the 'non-resonant' ones are still partnerships becasue the non-resonance serves a purpose and that's the attracting force.

People that have felt 'fated' in the past have been very important to who I have become, even though the relationship felt like being sanded down with a very coarse sand paper.

why does the fourth yang go to the first yang? is it too hard to resist an open door? It certainly is impolite.

What if the other one does not feel that the 'complete cycle of time' has ended?

They dont go away. Or they are left unresolved.

How do we personally know when the 'complete cycle of time' has ended'?

I'd say its different for different people. I have heard a voice in my head yelling at me saying to end it with a person. Sometimes outside circumstances help out.

obviously the 10 days instead of 10 years, say, means that all is well in a short period of time but the implication is there will be fault if you carry on further than the natural alotted time. But the line encourages the querent to proceed in this direction, yes? But there is a sense that they cant proceed in a haphazard manner, one should respect the partnership?

anyway, was just reading Lise's site on 1 and 4:

If one behaves oneself ´like a friend´: not jumping up at a saying, not reacting with suspicion or disdain, then the friend will stay a friend, even in tough circumstances.
But with a ´barbarian´, where the exchange is tense, one has to restrain oneself, weigh every word carefully, and, if possible, try to find an opening for contact by searching for mutual grounds. Meet him halfway, but without making yourself vulnerable.

Line 4: even those who were usually not friends (the tribe of Yi) came to help, but everyone had to hide his true feelings for the time being (line 4 changes to hex.36)

bradford · Jun 14, 2011

Hi Ginnie-
I wouldn't get too caught up in the dimension of Correspondence (Ying). It's one of those dimensions they made up in the Han Dynasty to try to explain the Zhouyi, but I seriously doubt that an objective survey of the various omens would turn up anything real about it. It made for some good excuses for the occasional perceptive commentary, but that's about it.
Your observation is good, though. It's about a life-changing encounter, quite often love, for which anybody is entitled to stop the world for ten days and get off. Could as easily be a mentor or a patron, though, as long as they're significant or important to your course.

ginnie · Jun 14, 2011

chingching said:
I guess the 'non-resonant' ones are still partnerships because the non-resonance serves a purpose and that's the attracting force.

I see that there has to be a reason or a cause, as in hex 45, and the two play different roles with regard to that purpose. Otherwise the two would see no reason to cooperate with each other, even for 10 minutes. Also, the two can form an 'army,' as in hexagram 7. Their dissonance creates a certain energy that might be good for getting things done. But those uneasy soldiers can be so basically unhappy ... especially if when they signed up they did not know they were signing up for life.

chingching said:
People that have felt 'fated' in the past have been very important to who I have become, even though the relationship felt like being sanded down with a very coarse sand paper.

sanded down with a very coarse sand paper -- Hey, Chingching, are you a writer? That is such a great turn of phrase.

Also, I was thinking how true that is, getting our veneer rubbed off and being left exposed to the elements by a fated relationship.

chingching said:
They don't go away.

Yes. You get stuck with them. This can be a situation like 33.3, where we get stuck with the 'concubines and servants.' This is said to be a good thing, but very draining.

I am thinking that we are all dummies and tend not to understand relationships very well. Or should I just speak for myself?

I don't want to speak for myself, because then I'd have to reveal some things about my life that are very embarrassing. If I had been knowledgeable about the I Ching when I was much younger, then maybe I wouldn't have made some of these embarrassing errors of judgment.

ginnie · Jun 14, 2011

Ways We Become Unequal

bradford said:
It made for some good excuses for the occasional perceptive commentary, but that's about it.

I hear you about that.

With regard to longer-lasting 55.1 relationships: It can happen that we find ourselves in the same boat with someone, and that situation may become permanent. Some translators say that that particular word about '10 days' is more about being equal or no longer being equal.

'Equal' is said to mean they are alike, both yang. In this context, what would 'unequal' mean?

Maybe 'unequal' means: They're in the same boat, but one of them has dropped the oars or is no longer rowing.

Maybe the one on the receiving end has been on the receiving end for too long ... or is now perceived to be a 'taker.'

Maybe one forgets the need to cooperate.

Maybe one no longer appreciates the other one.

Maybe one no longer makes an effort to hide feelings of antipathy.

We become unequal when the original reason for getting together no longer exists.

We become unequal when we 'grow apart.'

We become unequal when we focus more on differences than on similarities.

We become unequal when we argue.

Or become overbearing; trying to boss the other one.

We become unequal when one becomes sick, elderly, debilitated.

We become unequal when we blame the other one for our situation.

The aspect of inequality I seem to be most interested in occurs when the true nature of the relationship wasn't seen for what it was in the first place.

That is, they never knew the kind of no-choice relationship they were in ...

As I'm writing this, I feel I am describing not most but rather all of the marriages and other long-term relationships I see around me.

We are living in bursting-out times ... nobody can stand their husbands and wives, employers and so forth anymore. Maybe we're all just being more honest with ourselves and maybe with others, too, about how we really feel inside.

mythili · Jun 15, 2011

bradford said:
It's about a life-changing encounter, quite often love, for which anybody is entitled to stop the world for ten days and get off.

What has bothered me about this is why its not good to exceed the 10 days - in the case when this about one's (love) match. Is it because its under a cloud for some reason? Or there are too many other considerations, interfering, and so one cant prolong the encounter? Or is just a comment that the world cant stop , except temporarily, for it. Or, this is a good match for you, but it cant be acted upon. Sad, eclipsed!

bradford · Jun 15, 2011

When things are this busy even top priorities can only be given so much.
It doesn't mean the relationship ends in ten days, only its exclusivity.

ginnie · Jun 15, 2011

Responding to Brad: Yes, the busy-ness aspect ...

Often when I get this line, it's like Yi is saying, "You're on the wrong track. Ask someone who might know about this."

Such meetings sometimes can take on overtones or undertones of romantic encounters. That's only natural.

It's not that I doubt 'love' can exist, but there are many interferences.

55.1 > 62 is probably not a line about bodily love, although people might make the mistake of thinking that it is about that. Thinking about 62 ... conscientiousness, meticulously taking care of details, staying low, not flying too high, not taking on too much ... Reads more like someone who needs to find a good annuity, learn how to make a budget, figure out something with lots of details, or find a good nutritional supplement ... Off the top of my head, it sounds more like you meet a business partner or someone who gives sound advice.

Sorry if I sound like an older woman ... but that's just what I happen to be, an older woman!

chingching · Jun 16, 2011

I always think of a virgo when I see 62.

ginnie · Jun 20, 2011

mythili said:
What has bothered me about this is why its not good to exceed the 10 days - in the case when this about one's (love) match.

I think it's an ENERGY or vibrational thing. Cannot be explained. Something's not right with the 'love' -- and that may be as much as we know how to say.

Also, sometimes someone can be okay for us in small doses -- but he could be bad for our health if we had to sleep in the same bed with him every night.

A lot of medicines are like this, too. Medicines are usually very bitter and are prescribed in very tiny doses ...

You asked about 'love' and I'm talking about sickness. Sometimes there's not much difference between the two !!! :rofl:

ginnie · Jun 20, 2011

mythili said:
What has bothered me about this is why its not good to exceed the 10 days - in the case when this about one's (love) match.

I think it's an ENERGY or vibrational thing. Cannot be explained.

Sometimes someone can be okay for us in small doses -- but he could be bad for our health if we had to sleep in the same bed with him every night. Medicines are like this, too, usually prescribed in very tiny doses ... Sometimes there's not much difference between 'love' and an ailment that needs some medicine !!! :rofl:

As you may have noticed, some people are extremely INTENSE. Being around them, even if we love them, can be too much of a good thing.

There is this suggestion of TOO MUCH that always seems to hang over hex 55. There is not only abundance, but too much of something -- or almost too much of something.

In line one, regarding love, it might take you or me 30 or 40 years to conceptualize and put into words all the ways this person is only good for you in smaller doses, but Yi has already let you know, so you don't have to devote the next 30 or 40 years figuring this out.

Usually what's behind it is some deep sort of philosophical difference, completely hidden at the outset, completely unresolvable. So, if you were to try to make this into a permanent relationship, sooner or later those irreconcilably differences would rear their ugly heads. At that point, you might be forced to leave the relationship. Alternatively, you might try to learn never to engage in argument with that person, maybe for the sake of other family members and children.

Since both people were yang at the beginning, it might be hard for one of those yangs to learn how to stop arguing.

sooo · Jun 20, 2011

I associate 55's lines with shade from extreme direct exposure. Both lines 1 and 4 take place (as I see it) in the shade, underground or at night time. To spend a whole cycle together with a comrade in this situation is not a mistake, it makes life go on. The extreme does not reach them and only serves to bind them, until such time as the cycle ends and it's time to move on again, alone (56).

rodaki · Jun 20, 2011

. . every time I come across this line I think of transitions . . why should it be strange that this part of the Changes changes?
55 is about a climax, reaching the highest point and then we get another state; in the case of 55.1, -which I see as an introduction to 55's theme- the 'and then' is a humbling, extra careful transition a la 62. It could be that it feels narrow after the high points of 55, but then what wouldn't?
. . and what word of caution or advise would be better when riding high if not to be prepared for the not-so-abundant times?

There's a completely different way I'm seeing this line too . . seeing the one hexagram as part of or inside the other, playing a bit with the idea of 62 as small portions of potential . . . This might sound rather funny but 55/62 makes me think of an amuse-bouche

D) -a limited portion that needs to showcase a whole attitude towards one's way, and also, an entry point to the fuller escapade of a meal built around it, like the basic overtone of a work or style . . if it feels good you follow it with amped up curiosity or if it doesn't sit right you can still excuse yourself and make for a narrow escape - a previous engagement maybe?? . .

sooo · Jun 20, 2011

On a light note, 55 sometimes reminds me of Simon and Garfunkel's lyric: "I'd rather be a hammer than a nail", with the sun being the hammer, and everything under it, the nail. It does cause me to pause and give thought to my own harsh judgments.

rodaki · Jun 20, 2011

that's a great song: 'El Condor Pasa'

I'd rather be a sparrow than a snail.
Yes I would,
If I could,
I surely would.

I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.
Yes I would,
If I only could,
I surely would.

CHORUS
Away, I'd rather sail away
Like a swan that's here and gone
A man gets tied up to the ground
He gives the world
Its saddest sound,
Its saddest sound.

I'd rather be a forest than a street.
Yes I would.
If I could,
I surely woud.

I'd rather feel the earth beneath my feet,
Yes I would.
If I only could,
I surely would.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waEbT_bF9c8&feature=related

ginnie · Jun 22, 2011

In 62, you are the tiny bird flying across the huge landscape, warned to stay low or stay hidden in the bushes, so as not to get caught in that big net that is strung right across your flight path.

I see the person in 55.1 as trying to help you not get caught in that darned net ... I think that is what Yi is saying. This is a person who can help you. Or: You need to find a person who can help you.

ginnie · Jun 22, 2011

sooo said:
I associate 55's lines with shade from extreme direct exposure. Both lines 1 and 4 take place (as I see it) in the shade, underground or at night time.

This is a beautiful image. Thank you so much. I'll always think of this.

ginnie · Jun 22, 2011

chingching said:
I always think of a virgo when I see 62.

How did I miss your post, Chingching?

Yes, Virgos are really good at 62.

Virgos give both the big and the little the same priority. They have enormous ability to concentrate on details. Perhaps distant emotionally ... but will try to improve you ... for your own good, of course.

charly · Jun 22, 2011

Hi, Ginnie:

I had not enought time to work with the whole posts, but I know that often our readings are biased because of 1) our own obsessions or 2) not so good translations.

Of course, for any reading one must know what was the question with accuracy.

ABOUT THE OBSESSIONS: let me say that H.55 is about fated love, predestinated bonds and, of course much to do with physical love wich is always a strong spiritual motor. (1)

People like we, for whom love is an obsesson, lack of objectivity. Of course diviners don't worry too much for it.

We have been youngs for so long time that sometimes we don't know how to behave with maturity. Some of us still don't know what will be when elder.

Maybe we have not the duty to sleep all the nights in the same bed, which doesn't mean to leave the bed forever. Nobody's perfect, and we less than any.

ABOUT TRANSLATION: I prefer almost literal translations from the received chinese text. Maybe it can be profitable for you.

55.1 Usual meanings character by character:

遇 yu4: meet with /
其 qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it /
配 pei4: to join / to fit / to mate / to match // to deserve /
主 zhu3: to own / to host // master / leader / lord [why not lady?] (2)

雖 sui1: although / even though /
旬 xun2: ten days // ten years /
无 wu2: without / not / no / avoid /
咎 jiu4: blame / to blame // mistake / wrong /

往wang3: to go with a purpose / towards /
有you3: to have / there is / there are // to exist / to be /
尚shang4: still / yet // to value / to esteem /

55.1:

MEETING WITH ONE'S DESERVED LEADER [OR GUIDE],
Meeting with one's owner, of course, speaking of love.
Meeting with one's matching host [for girls] or hostess [for boys].

EVEN THOUGH TEN DAYS / TEN YEARS [NOT SURE],
The oracle is not accurate, he doesn't know the future or want not tell it.
Be for ten days [a chinese week] or for ten years [a whole cycle].
Love comes without warranty.

NO WRONG.
No blame, no mistake.
Nothing wrong althoug love don't save us from commiting mistakes.

TO PROCEED [TO GO TOWARDS A GOAL] HAS WORTH [OR IS WORTHY].
Doing it has merit.

I believe that in H.55 豐 FENG, FLOURISHING or EXHUBERANT, there are issues of FERTILITY RITES and of SUN WORSHIP, but that's another story.

All the best,

Charly

________________________
(1) I have lost the book of Steve Marshall that is a must.
(2) The character depicts a CANDLE, the GUIDE or LEADER also HOST / HOSTESS!

ginnie · Jul 1, 2011

55.1: A tidbit

[From Wikipedia on the amuse-bouche: Jean-Georges Vongerichten, a popular celebrity chef with multiple restaurants around the world who is based in New York City, has stated that: "The amuse-bouche is the best way for a great chef to express his big ideas in small bites".]

Thank you for this Rodaki!

The amuse-bouche is a tidbit. It is offered free of charge ...

I asked someone for advice on retirement planning, and I didn't understand why he was leading me into in a shaded area of a garden instead of inside the restaurant. He handed me all sorts of photocopies and sent me more info in the mail afterwards. He was due to retire in six months and had already done all the research.

That was a huge amuse-bouche!

He turned out to be someone who thinks women should be quiet and never say anything. I am sure he will never want to meet with me again, which is okay with me, too. I'm glad I had dressed in a businesslike way. I had also taken my briefcase with me and laid it across my lap -- sitting on a bucket in the garden.

I went out to meet him. This was a meeting, as in hexagram 44.

What makes 55.1 different from a hex 44 brief encounter?

I did not really want to bring up the subject of hex 44, but somehow it crept in, maybe because Charly's post, above, suggested that nobody has to sleep in the same bed all the time.

ginnie · Jul 1, 2011

charly said:
Maybe we have not the duty to sleep all the nights in the same bed, which doesn't mean to leave the bed forever. Nobody's perfect, and we less than any.

Thanks, Charly!

I am afraid to go sleep in another bed because we are hearing these days all about the bedbug epidemic. People go to the finest hotels, e.g., The Plaza in NYC, and come back with bedbug bites. These insects are in the stores and also in the movie theaters!!! They are on the buses and in the airplanes !!!

I am definitely deterred from ... traveling in general.

It seems funny until the bedbugs are in your own building. Then everybody in the building becomes hysterical.

I am someone who always wants to go someplace else. I am restless by nature. So, it is very hard for me to stay in one place. I was thinking the other day that I need two husbands, not just one husband. I am telling you this in strictest confidence, of course, charly !!!

My mother once told me that every man should have more than one wife, in case one of the wives feels sick or something. I am thinking that every woman should have more than one husband, in case the one she has is sick or something.

Actually, the way we live here is stupid -- and sooner or later I have to come up with a better idea about how to live ...

Thanks again, Charly, for your wonderful post. You have inspired me, and I feel there is hope ...

IrfanK · Dec 29, 2022

[member quote removed by moderator]

Well, I found it fascinating. And I can see how it is 55.1. This is an old thread. Some of the most astute comments are from people now dead, so you won't get any replies from them. Still, thank you for bringing the thread back to life. I haven't seen it before, and it's a very interesting one.

I'm reading a book at the moment, Romancing the Shadow, by Connie Zweig. She is sometimes referred to as the "Shadow Expert": she's a (retired) Jungian analyst and an author of four books on Shadow and shadow work. A very wise old woman. She talks a lot about how the golden aspect of Shadow manifests in the people we fall in love with (as distinct from the people we love), and what can be learned from those experiences. And also why they are often ephemeral. They are bound to either evolve into something more human and down to earth, or to crash or wither.

You mentioned Jung in passing. If you don't know Connie's work, you might be interested. You can also find her giving talks and answering questions on YouTube.

my_key · Dec 29, 2022

55.1 for me can carry the image of a seed that is planted. For now it is a seed, yet you know something magnificent will grow form it and have no idea what it will be.

The purpose of a seed is to sprout and grow, and so it cannot remain a seed forever - it has a certain shelf-life as a seed. The parting of the seed, as it germinates and grows, brings other rewards and both the seed, the sprout and whatever blooms are best honoured as equals: none greater or lesser than the others.

dobro p · Dec 30, 2022

If you're into Jung, you might like to check out (if you haven't yet) Marie-Louise von Franz, James Hollis, and Edward Edinger. They're my faves. Robert Johnson's good on dreams and active imagination. A really good contemporary application of basic Jungian psychology (without the archetypal stuff) is Richard Schwartz with his work on internal family systems. Awesome stuff.

Thanks for the 55.1 story - Balkin says, about this line: 'Allying yourself with someone who has goals and values similar to yours will create a beautiful synergy. Together you can achieve something neither of you could do alone. It is not a mistake to work closely together for a specific purpose until you have achieved your goals.' That fits, I think. The goals might not be conscious, of course. And it might not be a specific purpose as much as a specific period of time. But no mistake.

IrfanK · Dec 30, 2022

[member quote removed by moderator]

Ha. I find myself staring into the distance in the left field, remembering. I'm happy to say that 35 years later, we're still good friends. I exchanged a few messages with her last night. She has become very human in my eyes now. But I'm still very grateful for the transformations we went through together when I was ... oh, a lot younger.

In general, 55 seems to be about a moment, a moment in time, a critically important one. The sun at its zenith. There's all those stories about about King Wen, or Wu, seeing the dark and scary signs in the sky .... an eclipse? ... and recognizing it as an imperative to act now. To shock the people around him by leaving the mourning hut, against all tradition, to fight against the leader he had sworn allegiance to. If he had been wrong, if he had failed, he would have been utterly reviled. But he recognized the moment, saw it with clarity, and acted.

There is something of that to 55.1, too. When a man meets his destined ruler, they can be together ten days, and it is not a mistake. Not just any ten days, but now. The conjunction is now. And it will pass. But now, it is absolutely right.

IrfanK · Dec 30, 2022

[member quote removed by moderator]

Ha. Yes. I was thinking of Bradford. He should be nominated as some kind of patron saint of Clarity. His wisdom and clues are scattered all over the forum.

What Is That Line 55.1 All About? Love?

visitor

visitor

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

Supporter

(deceased)

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

sooo

Guest

visitor

sooo

Guest

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

visitor

Supporter

visitor

visitor

Supporter

Supporter