What could he possibly want now?

kdedeaux4 · Jun 4, 2010

After years and years of hurtful chaos and ridiculous nonsense from my ex bf, he finally has left me alone for a few months (2 1/2!!) straight now....long enough for me to really start believing he is finished with his cruel games.

So I'm a little confused as to why he phoned me this morning? Seems simple, I could just call him back and ask, right? Having no clue whatsoever as to what on earth he could want or want to say to me throws me in a tail spin though and I simply cannot just call him back. However, I'm also deeply curious as to why he contacted me at all at this point in time...so of course, I asked the IC for insight...

Response: hex 24.3.4.6 -->30

A "Return" to "Separation"? i see 24 as a return to self..perhaps this sad and misdirected man has finally seen the light and hopes to return to the decent human being he once was? Is that just ridiculously optimistic thinking? The lines given here and hex 30 in this really confound me too...
Please help me with additional insight into this one?
Thank you :hug:

Namaste':bows:

my_key · Jun 4, 2010

However, I'm also deeply curious as to why he contacted me at all at this point in time...so of course, I asked the IC for insight...

Response: hex 24.3.4.6 -->30

Hex 24- Staying warm and tucked up allowing full restoration to take place
24.3 - This is about relating to the emotional level of the process. This is perhaps where things are not totally stable and dangers exist of being drawn back to old feelings.
24.4 - Now how to evaluate what is going on at this time. Staying in the centre, staying clear minded and focused and not becoming too influenced by all the petty things that are going on. It's an opportunity to demonstrate what has been learnt.
23.6 - On a high level this line says about straying and not knowing how to turn back wiil lead to trouble.

........and at the end of it all is the pot of gold. All coming together to a place where you will have better illumination inside and out.

My view from the way that you worded the question is that the answer is directed towards you and your actions rather than him and his......but I may be barking up the wrong tree here.
Be Well
Mike

ace · Jun 4, 2010

"I'm also deeply curious as to why he contacted me at all at this point in time?"

24, 3.4.6. > 30

A return to the brightness. Or, a return to clarity. Or, a return to a bright moment. Or, a return to insight.

If you wanted to use "separation" (although that definition has never made sense to me), separation may be the context in which the return is occurring. So, returning in separation. Although, I prefer above ... I think it embodies more of the "why" of your question.

3 lines is a lot for me to make sense of, and particularly when it is about someone else's intentions. However here, none of the lines are particularly "auspicious". 24(3) talks about "brink of returning, or "repeated returning", and "danger", 24(4) talks about "returning alone", 24(6) talks about losing one's way and "calamities and mistakes". Whatever the motivation for returning, I would think I would be quite wary given these lines. Like, shadows of the past returning, trying to be in the light of the relationship. Shadows never fare well in the light.

Or, I wonder if Yi advising about a different question, a more personal one. Perhaps the idea here is for **you** to return to your insight/clarity about the situation, and respond to the call accordingly. Don't know if it is Yi or me giving that advice, but I think it applies here.

You could stepwise the reading to get the story of the transition of the lines. That might help with understanding. 24.3,36.4, 55.6, 30 ... I tried it but it felt like a very personal reading for him. I didn't feel comfortable posting it.

willowfox · Jun 4, 2010

I don't see this as good at all, it seems to be a case of Michael Myers returning to wreck havoc once again or at least make his presence felt in your life, as it seems your ex cannot let it go, ever.
There maybe lulls now and again but your ex is pretty relentless, so take Hex 30 literally, to cling to you because he's still annoyed.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 4, 2010

Wow!

Wow! All of these really make sense of this in several different ways and modes of thinking! Thank you

Mike: My initial thought on this response nudged me to feel IC might be referring to me, like you suggest..especially seeing #24! I feel more than half of the time I've spent dealing with this man since our break-up has been me struggling to "return to myself" and minimize the influence I allow him...."Struggle" is just what it's been...which is why I hesitate to call him back for *any* reason whatsoever that he has suddenly decided to contact me again...

Ace: Wow! I would love to think of the positive possibilities here especially after so many years of ugliness and strife in this situation. It's a hard optimism to embrace though in light of all that has occurred. When you wrote "Like, shadows of the past returning, trying to be in the light of the relationship.". I got goose bumps down my spine..this is what I'm praying is *not* at all his intention or thought. I'm not certain I've built enough resolve or armour yet to handle that possible scenario in a healthy way. I would be ever so grateful to hear your further take on dissecting the lines more individually. Would you be willing to send me a private message with your thoughts on that? I very much need all the insight I can possibly get to handle this well and prepare myself. I would be so grateful if you'd be willing to tell me more about that!!??

WF.....You never EVER cease to amaze me!!! "...it seems to be a case of Michael Myers returning to wreck havoc once again or at least make his presence felt in your life, as it seems your ex cannot let it go, ever" Geesh..you couldn't possibly have more aptly described what I fear this is about! In fact, I did a reading awhile back asking why he was SO horribly cruel when I asked if we could try to get some semblance of closure after all this disaster. He's "acted" for years like none of the past things which put us here mattered a whit to him anymore (apathetic to the extreme even) and yet when I politely requested closure (for us both), he blew up and went off about all the things he was supposedly so "over" and "cruel" would be a NICE way of describing his response to that request and "he is still annoyed" really helps provide explanation into that question as well. I'm so afraid of this man on a mental level, as we share an unexplainable, almost ethereal, bond that nothing seems to ever totally break and it has given him so much power over my mind and heart for so very very long that I can sincerely say, I'd rather be physically beaten than endure one more moment of his mean and maniplative side. I'm just no match for the level of his cruelty or the extent of his mind games...and I never have been!
Thank you all so much! I'm going to pray and meditate on this awhile and carefully contemplate my response to this contact...:bows:
:hug:

gato · Jun 4, 2010

Missing the return. Misfortune.
Misfortune from within and without.
If armies are set marching in this way,
One will in the end suffer a great defeat,
Disastrous for the ruler of the country.
For ten years
It will not be possible to attack again.

+H30 ... go see the guy. but you probably won't do it.

arabella · Jun 4, 2010

Hexagram 24, 3.4.6 in my mind advises you to stay away and avoid being drawn in again, warns that you will only be required to unearth old hurts better left undisturbed, keep to the direction you'd established for yourself and don't be drawn in again, don't let curiosity bring you back into a situation you know in your heart is a drain and a waste of time.

Hexagram 30 indicates to me a person who is addicted to the turmoil he can create with, and within, you. This is an emotion he has learned to crave like an emotional vampire, an obsession with creating misery that merely substitutes for anything productive in his life. He has called you for his "fix," and it's up to you if you want to be used in this way any more. I'd ask the Yi what prevents you from accepting the simple truth of this man. After all, what is there to be curious about in a person who has been repeatedly cruel to you?

willowfox · Jun 5, 2010

Don't play with fire as for sure you will get burnt. Fire has a mesmerizing effect that draws you in, closer and closer, so always have a fire extinguisher handy when you feel "curious".

sunrise65 · Jun 5, 2010

ace said:
Like, shadows of the past returning, trying to be in the light of the relationship. Shadows never fare well in the light.

What a lovely quote, am sorry I have nothing to give to the thread but this has really taken me, thank you ace.

tom.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 5, 2010

Arabella, I think you have it absolutely right. I have often even referred to him as a "soul vampire", so your use of that word here is uncanny. This contact is most likely just to suck whatever last little bit he can get from me before I move far away....and part of the reason I'm moving far away is this man and this never-ending situation!!! I've had the distinct feeling for awhile now that if I do not get a BIG geographical distance from him, I will forever be bound...and used as, and when, he pleases. I am to blame for this as much as he since I have allowed this and feel almost defenseless against the whole process. you're right, I shouldn't even question at this point and that I am, only serves to make me realize I obviously haven't suffered enough yet to learn my lesson here. There should be no curiousity...experience should tell me plenty. And yet, I always have this unexstinguishable glimmer of hope for one more (one last even!?) conversation, one more moment with the man I once loved and respected beyond anything I ever thought possible. I can't seem to ever fully accept and believe that that wonderful, beautiful man either never existed really or is truly now "dead". Hope springs eternal in me regarding this man it seems, however long it may have been since I've seen him be that man...

The heart surely is an odd and strange thing...and a very stupid and frustrating thing too!!!

my_key · Jun 5, 2010

Interesting what you write here in relation to your original response from the YI

And yet, I always have this unexstinguishable glimmer of hope for one more (one last even!?) conversation, one more moment with the man I once loved and respected beyond anything I ever thought possible.

- Maybe 24.3
and then

I can't seem to ever fully accept and believe that that wonderful, beautiful man either never existed really or is truly now "dead". Hope springs eternal in me regarding this man it seems, however long it may have been since I've seen him be that man...

- a touch of 24.6

Wasn't sure you'd written about 24.4 yet

MIke

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

Many of us are familiar with the emotion of falling in love with what we hoped someone was, not what they really are. We paint ourselves a lovely picture of the man/woman we imagine and are fixated with it no matter what evidence to the contrary emerges over years. It's very difficult in these situations to walk away once and for all, but essential to remove the rose coloured glasses and find someone who warrants all the hope, trust and love you've invested that isn't, and won't be, returned. Best of luck with a new future.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 5, 2010

So I had to ask...

What is the best way to respond to this contact?

Answer: Hex 55.1 to 62

At first this looks to be all I could hope for in this situation... "10" (and only 10!?!?) days of being the "leader"...not really interested in being the "leader" here, whatever that really means! In respect to the fact that I know we'll never be, have, or get back what I loved and valued so much....my greatest dream/hope at this point is to just have a last conversation or experience with the man he once was. he disappeared so quickly and was suddenly replaced by this man today...I never got to say good bye or fully express how much I valued him or our time together. He was there for years and then in one minute, he was just gone and my conversations and attempts with this man are like trying to talk of it all with a random stranger...frustrating...he looks, sounds and seems like the same man, but he is NOT and this is why it's all so hard to accept. he's right THERE..but he isn't anywhere to be found!
Sorry to beat a dead horse here..you've all been so very kind to offer your thoughts already...and I guess I already "know" that whatever this hints at is probably not what I'm trying to read it as....my damned wishful thinking gets in the way with my clarity

But, IF I could have just "10" days or 10 minutes with the man he once was, my prayers would be answered and I'd like to think I'd feel the sense of closure I so desperately need with this.
My heart likes Gato's "Go see him" response the best of course.....I SO want to see him one more time...i have so much to tell him and ask him....and this reading almost makes me think perhaps I should/could?

Any thoughts on this one?
Ummm.....feel free to slap me hard with the idiot board here...

And thank you all for your kindness and patience with me and this seemingly "obvious" situation

:bows:

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

This is the real man

I know what you are saying, having been in a relationship like this and finally asking a therapist: what the heck happened here? And now I understand the phenomenon very well and feel assured I won't fall for it again. Some people are professional "attractors," which is to say they know the kind of soft touch person they are looking for and they know how to keep a certain pretense alive until they feel you are "hooked." And, oh boy, are you. Then the pretense drops and you see the REAL them. The part they didn't want you to know and never showed until it was too late.

You ARE seeing the real him. Now.

Hex 55.1 indicates this relationship had a short time to live, a week so to speak in metaphorical terms. Time's up. The reason the time was so short is that it was based on deception and not real emotion, at least not from the man involved. You were tricked is my guess. And you fell for it. He can't go back and play the trick again, now you will see it coming. Maybe he's run out of women to try it on, so he's back around to you -- again. The woman who just won't be convinced he's REALLY that big a rat. He is.

Hex 62, in my estimation invites you to be wary, says you are better off not taking this further. Stay low, move, get past it. Get some counseling if you can't get through the fog on your own. Most of all, stop craving a relationship with somebody who was masquerading as a person he is not.

gato · Jun 5, 2010

55.1 - once again, go see that man. And it is not a mistake.
maybe it will not last forever but nothing is.

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

Can't See It

Gato, I absolutely can't see how you get that reading, considering that Hex 55.1 becomes Hex 62, which if you follow LiSe's interpretation, warns caution in every line. The best line ends with "no fault."

LiSe: http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_49-64/hex_e_62.htm

As 55.1 indicates a shorterm relationship becoming Hex 62, with persistent warnings,where do you get the idea to go see this person?

gato · Jun 5, 2010

What I am wondering is how you guys don't see it. It is so obvious that the only thing left for Yi to do is to actually grab her by the hand and take her to see that guy.

As 55.1 indicates a shorterm relationship becoming Hex 62, with persistent warnings,where do you get the idea to go see this person?

10 days in heaven are far better than 10 days in hell. other than that the line speak about "destined" ruler. we simply do not know how it will evolve afterwards. ( actually we do. she will meet with recognition) . but i hate to argument my answers, as people start to think afterwards, and judging is bad because leads to expectations.

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

Gato, I'm not giving an arbitrary personal judgement on what happens as a result of the 55.1. Hexagram 55 indicates a situation which quickly reaches fullness and rapidly declines, which if you look to other interpretations, Hex 55.1 often explains the reason a situation didn't last. Interpretations often indicate that it's possible to get into a relationship which is absolutely hypnotic, in which someone is a svengali type and it SEEMS great for a short while, thus the "ruler" idea. But it doesn't last and deteriorates into Hex 62. Again, hexagram 62 is not auspicious. This is why I am asking your reasoning, which isn't an argument, but asking a question of how you came to the conclusion it's wise to go see this fellow, given the meanings of the hexagrams.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 5, 2010

Well, one thing I can say for certain is that this definitely isn't, wasn't, and so can never be a "short term" relationship per se... the relationship we share just goes on and on and on and on, changing shapes and moving boundaries, yes..but the connection itself, as in relationship to each other and with each other, has stood, albeit far different from our initial relationship. No matter what is said, done, or decided, this connection just does not break. I'm sure this is not as unusual and unique as it seems to me, but it is certainly the first of its kind I've ever experienced...both in good and bad ways!!
I'm moving across the country (literally) in 3 weeks, so I also know for certain that nothing "long term" is possible with this situation any more (both in a practical and emotional way)...although I still have my doubts that my geographical distance will successfully serve to sever the bond entirely, it certainly has to minimize the ongoing effect this ridiculously lingering bond can continue having on my life and his too! We no longer have even the option of reuniting and living happily ever after as was our initial plan. Under the best of hopes and dreams, neither of us could or would attempt such a long distance committed romantic relationship.
I do hate to leave it as it is though and I would not even consider that if he gave me the option at all to wrap things up between us in as positive of manner as is possible under the circumstances and with our sad history. I had resolved to do just this though (leave it all wide open) after his hateful response..but then again, I truly believed he would never contact me again anyway.
Arabella, I respect your thoughts and your experience with this type of thing very much, but I guess I just can't believe that he wasn't ever who he once "was".... (I have had quite a bit of counseling with this whole thing by the way)
I do believe he has his own demons to fight and he's tortured me cruelly (and unfairly) because of them. It's just impossible to believe he could fake it so well for as long as he did....and everything changed drastically when I (not he) unintentionally changed the circumstances, like it woke up every demon and fear he has inside and there was no turning back for him...but he couldn't fully let go either...nor could I, which has put us in the worst of "relationship" with each other for so very long now

Your analogy, Gato, is very interesting..as I've often said I would happily exchange having 5 more minutes of the "heavenly" happiness I once shared with him for a lifetime of a world without ever experiencing such a thing again.... which is why it almost seemed as if 55.1 was offering me exactly that...

Gosh, why can't I be little again when life and choices were so simple and safe?!??
:duh:

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

We are all many things inside I suppose. But when pressure comes and exposes the depths, then we find the true person. And often, there is no going back. If you pushed him into showing a weakness, maybe that is why you feel you have to revisit and fix this somehow. But when people are put in a stressful situation and fly to pieces, the demons that arise are their own.

BTW, 55.1 leading to Hex 62 wasn't a casting for this entire relationship for whatever many years and that's not what I was reading about; you asked about how to respond to this recent contact, so I'm assuming the situation won't/doesn't hold up, is short term, and you are being warned there's nothing auspicious in it. Obviously, the overall relationship in some form has lasted a long time.

gato · Jun 5, 2010

62 - work through small, great good fortune. why do you say is not auspicious ? small thing can be delicious and only the small things make great ones. looks very auspicious to me.

Hex 55.1 often explains the reason a situation didn't last. Interpretations often indicate that it's possible to get into a relationship which is absolutely hypnotic

what line/word in 55.1 even remotely suggest that situation to you ?

When a man meets his destined ruler,
They can be together ten days,
And it is not a mistake.
Going meets with recognition.

they can be together only 10 days, but this is not a mistake. ( we don't know why only 10 days and if it's final. 62 comes in here which says to work through small and take what gods have to offer and don't ask for bigger things, at least for now ). going meets with recognition. what is so psychotic in this ?

kde, if i would get this reading regarding someone i love i would instantly without doubts and second thoughts go and persistently hug that person. but i'm not that lucky. yet.

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

Thank you Gato for explaining what you see. I appreciate what you are saying and I read the lines differently -- some from experience of my own castings, some from archival interpretations.

If you look at the line I gave for LiSe's YiChing, Hex 62 doesn't have a great deal to recommend it. If you research other readings and meanings that have been derived for 55.1 it is often a spent or crumbling situation.

It is true that sometimes the IChing can be read literally, word for word, but I'm looking at the overall situation in relation to the question that was asked and, in this case, I just doubt the possibility. And I suppose that's the Art of reading -- nothing is absolute. We've both done our best to present a point of view and I would think the Querent will have to decide what, in her heart of hearts, fits the moment.

Thanks again, Gato, for your detailed response.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 5, 2010

Nothing auspicious in responding to this..and certainly nothing "long lasting"...makes sense to me and I do fear it is just more of the same....another dangling carrot from him bc he knows how desperate I am to come to closure or even just a little bit of genuine understanding with this and so I'm easily manipulated for him bc he holds that power over me. I can't come to that place totally on my own. If that is the case, not only will i *not* get 10 more minutes of any happiness, but I'll also just get more pain...obviously what I hope to avoid and the reason I'm contemplating this so thoroughly!
Asked IC (and I promise this is my last cast regarding this situation!!!) what will the outcome be if I contact him?
Response 26.4.6 -->34
Seems line 4 says wait on this to build up my energy/power (makes sense!) and line 6 says the waiting I've already done will pay off (i've not attempted contacting him at all in quite a while) to 34 "Great power"? He already has great power in this and I don't want any "power"...I just want peace of mind... If he already has the "power" here and I'm asking "what will happen if..", then could this indicate me being in a better position to finally heal from it all if I contact him?

Arabella: I agree with you that the worst of circumstances can bring out our deeply hidden natures, but that those characters *are* in us all along anyway! Does that mean, I'm not who I really am when I'm not under such pressure? I honestly don't know....?

arabella · Jun 5, 2010

I believe that most of us can be calm and happy and kind and loving and gentle and trustworthy and thoughtful and generous when life is wonderful. The test of true nobility is who can be all those same things in adversity. It is tests that bring out our true character, which from what I know is the purpose of being alive -- learning about yourself and other people. Of course we all react badly at times, however, if this affects someone we love in a terrible way we would apologise and try to improve. If that behavior goes on and on, however, with no attempts to make ammends, then there is a deep character flaw that may be impossible to live with.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 5, 2010

if i would get this reading regarding someone i love i would instantly without doubts and second thoughts go and persistently hug that person

I LOVE this Gato!!!!! ...it is exactly what I'd very much LIKE to do here..."hug it out" with him so to speak...

If (and it's a BIG "if"!) that were to go well, I simply can't imagine asking for anything more from this whole situation...It may not bring all the answers I want, but I do think then I could leave this man, this state, this whole crazy thing, and just feel grateful and somewhat at peace with it all!

gato · Jun 6, 2010

gato said:
+H30 ... go see the guy. but you probably won't do it.

i guess some things cannot be changed, no matter what....
and that's is how you are missing the return.

kdedeaux4 · Jun 6, 2010

Gato

Actually, I'm thinking of going to see him tonight even...not returning his call or anything, just showing up and asking if I can hug him...although, I can NOT believe I'm considering this!!!!!

After the hopeful lines of 26 the IC gave me in addition to all the helpful insights on this thread, I'm currently thinking to myself, why not? The worst that can happen is more of the same and although I do not want that and pray that's not the case, I AM moving soon, so at least I can feel confident that if it's just the same old thing he's up to, at least even that will end inevitably soon as well....and of course, there is always the crazy chance that it won't be more of the same, but might actually be well worth it.... in which case I will experience the answer of many of my deepest heart-felt prayers..how could I pass up the opportunity to at least give that prayer one last chance??!!??

My heart obviously has not a lick of common sense and my overwhelming desire for peace with this clearly overrides any logic I may possess

gato · Jun 6, 2010

There is drinking of wine
In genuine confidence. No blame.
But if one wets his head,
He loses it, in truth.

So go see him, hug him but always keep your eyes open and use your common sense.

Wish you best of luck

arabella · Jun 6, 2010

Hope it works out for you! Arabella

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