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Blog post: Ask about the gift

hilary

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I’ve stumbled across a question to ask Yi that’s rapidly becoming one of my favourites:

‘What’s the gift?’

It can be asked about almost anything, of course. A situation, an approach, a book… I just asked about what my new way of eating gives me, and had a very clear, very interesting reply. (Part of it was 14.4, which is why I’m not going to spend the rest of this post banging on about that
icon_wink.gif
.)

And it can also be asked about people.*I’ve received readings of startling, shining clarity when asking about people who work as healers/ intuitives/ diviners (etc…) -

‘What gift does this person bring?’

Just one example: I asked this about Pamela Moss, whose adventure in self-employment began with painting ‘possibility portraits’, like icons, to represent the highest and best of individuals and families. She calls this a ‘magic mirror‘. She also teaches people to create ‘vision boards’ and personal ‘treasure maps’ with collage. She’s been branching out lately, though, working more with small business owners and sending what felt to me like more generic, less personal messages about success, money and so on. Maybe (I thought) she’s leaving the vision thing behind. Hmmm. So what might her gift be now?

Hexagram 20, changing at line 6 to Hexagram 8.

(Isn’t that a brilliant reading?)

Seeing and Seeking Union – the clear vision of what’s there, moved by the impulse to find kindred spirits and belong. (Belonging is an eloquent translation of the name of hexagram 8, and the one Brad Hatcher uses.) Seeing how and where you belong; seeing just with an awareness that you have a place to belong, which is revealing in itself.

Actually… looking again at the Oracle for hexagram 8 -

‘Seeking union, good fortune.
At the origin of oracle consultation,
From the source, ever-flowing constancy.
No mistake.
Not at rest, coming on all sides.
For the latecomer, pitfall.’

- I wonder whether Pamela might not be in the midst of finding her own place to belong, the people she can most readily connect with, and whether those more business-y emails might not actually be her way of ‘founding countless cities for relationships’, and not ‘generic’ at all.

But it’s the primary hexagram that really leaps out at me and sings…

‘Seeing. Washing hands, and not making the offering.
There is truth and confidence like a presence.’

It’s not about doing stuff or even giving anything;*it’s about the space where you’re washed clean of the everyday world and can see exactly what enters this clear space. Truth becomes apparent.

Best of all is the moving line, 20.6:

‘Seeing their lives.
The noble one is without mistake.’

Could there be a simpler way to describe the true gift of someone who makes ‘possibility portraits’?

I’ve asked this ‘gift’ question about several people I’m hoping to connect with, and the answers always have this quality of perfect, unmissable clarity. Often they give me a whole new way of seeing ideas and methods I was in danger of dismissing because they didn’t ‘fit’ my usual comfort zone.

But much as I’d love to write about them all, I think it’d be best not to share readings about people I haven’t even spoken to yet – it could be a slightly weird way to introduce myself. (Pamela, on the other hand, knows me very well, and gladly gave permission for me to share this reading; I think she likes it.)
 

Liselle

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HIlary, are you implying that when you've asked for similar insight about people in the past, before having stumbled upon that particular wording for the question, you've gotten poorer results?

If so, that perplexes me...presumably you were still asking well-formed questions and all, i.e., not falling into yes-no question traps and so forth...you see what I mean?

Lisa
 

pocossin

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… I just asked about what my new way of eating gives me, and had a very clear, very interesting reply.

May I ask about this new way of eating? Trojan somewhere said it was too much soup. I remember recommending that your brother who ate slowly be given a larger spoon. Maybe you are using a smaller spoon :)

Isn't 'the gift' the same as one's genius -- one's unique individuality?
 

bamboo

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Thank you for the introduction to Pamela Moss! Fantastic stuff.
 
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sooo

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Hilary,

The links aren't loading here, cept Brad's.

Could be said that gifts are what keep people apart. It sets them apart, and all the more as a person matures, so long as they remain true to what they perceive themselves to be, in the very best terms. And, that, by choice, is only a choice.

Truth becomes apparent

I question this. Not that it appears, but that what appears is Truth, rather than our preferred definition of Truth - truth of the day, which varies from person to person, as their gifts separate them.

The bees and ants don't have gifts, other than as their species dictate. Yet they're no less productive to world economy for it.

I believe a Gift is a gift, which one wears and bears, to force life to be proactive. To my knowledge, gifts start early, and go through a lot of s**t, in its effort to stay alive in the being the gift is in. Gifts themselves don't die, they're just latent. Like the desert, which looks dead until it rains.
 

hilary

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HIlary, are you implying that when you've asked for similar insight about people in the past, before having stumbled upon that particular wording for the question, you've gotten poorer results?

If so, that perplexes me...presumably you were still asking well-formed questions and all, i.e., not falling into yes-no question traps and so forth...you see what I mean?

Lisa
Yes, I had been asking other questions and understanding less from the answers - things like 'what would it be like to work with this person on this project?' The answers were helpful enough, but they were naturally describing a mixture of how I might feel and behave, how the other person might feel and behave, what the outcome might be, and so on. Asking what gift they give isn't exactly a better question, it's just one that creates a more strongly defined answer.

May I ask about this new way of eating? Trojan somewhere said it was too much soup. I remember recommending that your brother who ate slowly be given a larger spoon. Maybe you are using a smaller spoon :)

Isn't 'the gift' the same as one's genius -- one's unique individuality?
Maybe... but seen very much in terms of how other people receive it.

The way of eating is more or less 'Primal', though not in a very strict or obsessive sort of way. Endless good reading here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/
Thank you for the introduction to Pamela Moss! Fantastic stuff.
Yes, Pamela's a good thing :) .
Hilary,

The links aren't loading here, cept Brad's.
Maybe you caught it at a bad moment - try again.
Could be said that gifts are what keep people apart. It sets them apart, and all the more as a person matures, so long as they remain true to what they perceive themselves to be, in the very best terms. And, that, by choice, is only a choice.
It could... only it seems an odd thing to say. Think of 'gift' in a nice literal sense, as in thing wrapped in shiny paper and ribbons. It only exists so you can give it to someone. This would certainly be pointless if the contents of the shiny paper were always the same... but this is difference that brings people together. Pretty much the whole point of there being more than one human being, surely?

hilary said:
Truth becomes apparent

I question this. Not that it appears, but that what appears is Truth, rather than our preferred definition of Truth - truth of the day, which varies from person to person, as their gifts separate them.

I only meant this as commentary on Hexagram 20 - 'there is truth and confidence like a presence.' Naturally that fu can mean different things in different contexts.

Thanks for the thought-provoking response - and hello, by the way :) .
 
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sooo

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It could... only it seems an odd thing to say. Think of 'gift' in a nice literal sense, as in thing wrapped in shiny paper and ribbons. It only exists so you can give it to someone. This would certainly be pointless if the contents of the shiny paper were always the same... but this is difference that brings people together. Pretty much the whole point of there being more than one human being, surely?

Thanks for the thought-provoking response - and hello, by the way :) .

Hello to you too! :)

Links work now, thanks.

and achieve some perspective, to see that the worry I am generating is not the true essence of who I am.

That is quite a gift.“

– Robin Weigert, Hollywood CA

Wouldn't the same be said for hope? To see that the hope I am generating is not the true essence of who I am.

Is it odd to say someone's innate gift is also their innate curse, and that its what sets one apart from another? I don't think it's odd. A person is given a gift of beauty, or the ability to makes wild amounts of money, or to be acclaimed for a gift of writing, singing, acting, sports; wonderful gifts. But each, sooner and/or later, costs that person a great deal of sacrificing of something else, that someone without that special gift could experience. Why do so many unusually gifted people self destruct, while mediocre people seem to get by with less troubles?

And ask a gifted celebrity how much they miss being able to go somewhere and just blend in with everyone else. Their gift sets them apart, makes them stand out, for better and worse.

But even we every day folks have gifts, and it is often when one chooses to proactively exercise that gift that a spouse, friend or even a teacher could abandon us for it, not bear the personal consequences of our gift. Or else one can choose to abandon their gift for sake of unity. It is not uncommon to have to choose between them.
 

rosada

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Wonderful question. When asking what gift does the person bring I see how it can be useful to interpret gift as meaning more than a talent, as in being a gifted painter, but also to look at what effect does this person's energy have on a situation, what experiences tend to manifest when this person is around? I met a lady who makes bautiful angel dolls. When we went for a walk around the block together every couple of houses I found bits of jewlry and odd scraps of cloth. I handed them over to my new friend as she explained this happens all the time with her, she feels the angels leave these things in her path and she uses them in dressing the dolls. My father on the other hand has the most miserable luck. I might forget to fill up my tank but it will be his car that runs out of gas. I tell him I feel so safe when I'm with him, that "I am rubber, you are glue, anything bad that should of happened to me bounces off of me and sticks to you!" On the plus side, good things happen when my youngest kid, a cheerful Leo walks into a room. Favorite songs come on the radio, lost items are found. People say, "Idris brings the sun!"
-Rosada
 

hilary

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Ahh... we're talking about this from opposite ends. 'Gift' as in the thing you're given, parable-of-the-talents style, and more or less compelled to do something with, as against 'gift' as in that which you give and others receive. Probably/possibly the same thing, but looks quite different from these different places.

Funnily enough, the hexagram I first think of for talent-gifts, the one you're given, is 35 (nuclear hexagram 39); the one I first think of for what you give is 14. Trigrams... interesting, huh?
 

jilt

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very interesting way of thinking, Hilary.

In my experience hex 14 has everything to do with your gifts, talents.
In social sciences there are a lot of theories about gift-giving and the involved exchange of position and power. There is a whole power and position-play-economy around gift-giving
With a gift you can get "a position" in someone's life. In the yi there is a lot of reference to gift-giving, by heart, in hex 8, 14, 27, 35, 41, 42, 43, 55. Perhaps most striking is the image in hex 23.
In anthropology there are some titles like "The Greek gift".

Personally I consider my work as an offer, like many people do when they work with their heart. That does not mean I do not expect something in return from it. Making an offering is loaded with expectations and feelings of reciprocity and justice.
 
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sooo

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Ahh... we're talking about this from opposite ends. 'Gift' as in the thing you're given, parable-of-the-talents style, and more or less compelled to do something with, as against 'gift' as in that which you give and others receive. Probably/possibly the same thing, but looks quite different from these different places.

I'm thinking of gifts more or less the same as you describe. I think gifts are wonderful, I don't mean to say they're not. I only mean that even gifts come with two sides. Hadn't thought about the talents parable or some such. I think that has to do with ethics and responsibility. The only responsibility I referred to was that which is implicit in the gift itself, that which comes with the gift. But I guess that includes responsibility, doesn't it? "To whom much is given, much is required." Though I wasn't even thinking that deeply into it. Just observing that gifts which are utilized include an equal share of blessing and curses. Maybe curses is too coarse of a word? Would yang and yin work better? What would the opposite of a blessing be?

I just don't see life ever happening in one direction, not even in a gift.
 
S

sooo

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...as against 'gift' as in that which you give and others receive.

Thinking about this during morning walk.

Don't you have to possess a gift before you can give it to others to receive?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Or, maybe your view of gifts are starry-eyed? Have mine become cynical or just realistic? It reminds me of one of those "that's good", "that's bad" stories, where every good brings the potential for something bad, and every bad brings the potential for something good. Such as one who finds their deeper self and meaning, or perhaps a psychic gift from the limitations brought on by losing a limb or one of their senses, or some other misfortune.
 

Liselle

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Sooo,

What you're saying about gifts - yes, but what would you propose doing about it? Everyone walk around hiding their lights under bushel baskets, hex 36-ish?

I don't actually think that's what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong), but I'm also not understanding what the conclusion is that you are drawing. Any way you'd like to expound on that aspect? Thanks! :)

Lisa
 

bamboo

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i had an uncle who was a gifted but his talent was not his gft in the sense that I think(MHO) Hilary is asking about........this uncles's gift was his way of paying attention to you, he could make anyone feel like a million bucks simply because he was so open to one's input, no matter who it was. I dont even think he was aware of this gift, and it was certainly not something to keep him separate or to have to sacrifice for..it was his essence.

i think bees and ants have gifts, the gift of Bee-ing a bee, be-ing an ant. thing is sometimes we look right past the gift
 
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sooo

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i think bees and ants have gifts, the gift of Bee-ing a bee, be-ing an ant. thing is sometimes we look right past the gift

That's why I specified ' other than that which is common to the species.' In other words, unique and individual gifts, such as your uncle demonstrated. Beeing... I like that. :)

I wonder what your uncle went though in his life to develop his wonderful listening ability? which would be seen by others as a gift, because to those who receive his expert listening skills, it was (or is) a gift indeed, in this world of people too busy talking and not enough listening, it is a treat when someone actually listens to you.
 
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sooo

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Sooo,

What you're saying about gifts - yes, but what would you propose doing about it? Everyone walk around hiding their lights under bushel baskets, hex 36-ish?

I don't actually think that's what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong), but I'm also not understanding what the conclusion is that you are drawing. Any way you'd like to expound on that aspect? Thanks! :)

Lisa

You bring a good point about using or hiding light or using gifts. There's a reason and a ti-ming for 36, and a reason and a time for 35. They are a pair. Not all gifts are appreciated, especially if the timing isn't right, or if the gift isn't right for the time. There must not only be the right timing but the right receptivity to receive the gift. Otherwise a leg of the Ding breaks, and the wonderful content spills onto the prince, and not only goes to waste but also offends the one intended to feed and bless.
 
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sooo

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it is a treat when someone actually listens to you.

I think, for this your uncle had to sacrifice his self interest, and become an empty vessel. Your uncle was evidently Daoist. chuckle
 

Liselle

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Not all gifts are appreciated, especially if the timing isn't right, or if the gift isn't right for the time. There must not only be the right timing but the right receptivity to receive the gift. Otherwise a leg of the Ding breaks, and the wonderful content spills onto the prince, and not only goes to waste but also offends the one intended to feed and bless.

A wonderful reason for doing a reading, before giving a gift, so as to not muck it up! And, of course, remembering what our mothers told us about gifts we may have gotten from aunts and grandmothers for our birthdays, ha ha.
 

Liselle

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Yes, I had been asking other questions and understanding less from the answers - things like 'what would it be like to work with this person on this project?' The answers were helpful enough, but they were naturally describing a mixture of how I might feel and behave, how the other person might feel and behave, what the outcome might be, and so on. Asking what gift they give isn't exactly a better question, it's just one that creates a more strongly defined answer.

Am slightly sighing here, only because Yi sometimes says what it wants to say seemingly without regard to the actual question asked (which is sometimes but not always a good thing) - but then here's a situation where a really subtle change in the wording, not even necessarily the intent, of the question makes a dramatic difference.

I can see it since you've laid it out here, but, I mean, it took you however-many years to hit upon this wording for this category of inquiry, and you're a professional. Whatever are the rest of us to do?! :(
 
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sooo

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A wonderful reason for doing a reading, before giving a gift, so as to not muck it up! And, of course, remembering what our mothers told us about gifts we may have gotten from aunts and grandmothers for our birthdays, ha ha.

Indeed.

Um, wear clean underwear in case we're in an accident? No, wait. Wear their gifts when they visit?
 

Liselle

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Um, wear clean underwear in case we're in an accident? No, wait. Wear their gifts when they visit?
Well, both of those would be good, ha ha...and pretend you like the present, pretend you're grateful, it's the thought that counts etc., basically a whole lot of smiling and pretending so Grandma doesn't cry :D
 
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sooo

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basically a whole lot of smiling and pretending so Grandma doesn't cry :D

I s'pose that is a gift in itself. :)

But I could never pull that off when receiving a barbe grill that I'd have to assemble myself, a floor model with just a couple missing parts. :rant:
 

Liselle

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...a barbe grill that I'd have to assemble myself, a floor model with just a couple missing parts. :rant:
Painful personal experience?

And yes, it's definitely easier with things like socks...
 
S

sooo

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Painful personal experience?

And yes, it's definitely easier with things like socks...

Oh, man, yes. I returned it to the store for a refund, an exchange or the missing parts. The manager said too bad, it was a floor model, you get it as is. It wasn't pretty, but I left with the refund. :)

Yep, socks work.

If it really was a floor model, rather than just a box with missing parts, why would it be disassembled in a box? rrright..
 

hilary

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...Personally I consider my work as an offer, like many people do when they work with their heart. That does not mean I do not expect something in return from it. Making an offering is loaded with expectations and feelings of reciprocity and justice.
Yes - at least, the reciprocity part. It's all part of a flow of exchange - couldn't exist if it weren't. (Like trying to 'give advice' to someone who isn't giving you their attention.) We just stick markers in the flow to label part of it 'offering' or 'gift' or 'payment', etc, etc.

I'm thinking of gifts more or less the same as you describe. I think gifts are wonderful, I don't mean to say they're not. I only mean that even gifts come with two sides. Hadn't thought about the talents parable or some such. I think that has to do with ethics and responsibility. The only responsibility I referred to was that which is implicit in the gift itself, that which comes with the gift. But I guess that includes responsibility, doesn't it? "To whom much is given, much is required." Though I wasn't even thinking that deeply into it. Just observing that gifts which are utilized include an equal share of blessing and curses. Maybe curses is too coarse of a word? Would yang and yin work better? What would the opposite of a blessing be?

I just don't see life ever happening in one direction, not even in a gift.

No, definitely not in one direction. A pair of readings I've used in the past:

What are my unique gifts?
What is my mandate?

In this sense 'mandate' (/calling/ destiny/ ...) could be the 'opposite'/counterpart of blessing. Yu the Great's 'gift' was to conquer the floods; this, by all accounts, was not fun.

Thinking about this during morning walk.

Don't you have to possess a gift before you can give it to others to receive?
Maybe - and also, maybe you have to give it to others before it makes any sense to say you possess anything.

From the play 'The Miser'/ 'The Pot of Gold' (can't remember if this bit is in Plautus or Molière or both): our miser, who lives in abject poverty, creeps down the garden as usual for his daily ritual of gazing at his beloved buried pot of gold. It's gone! Turns out someone had watched him, retraced his steps and taken it. But look on the bright side, they say, as he runs round searching for the thief: you can still creep down the garden and stare into the hole, so nothing's really changed, has it?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Or, maybe your view of gifts are starry-eyed?
Moi? :)

i had an uncle who was a gifted but his talent was not his gft in the sense that I think(MHO) Hilary is asking about........this uncles's gift was his way of paying attention to you, he could make anyone feel like a million bucks simply because he was so open to one's input, no matter who it was. I dont even think he was aware of this gift, and it was certainly not something to keep him separate or to have to sacrifice for..it was his essence.
That's exactly the idea - that it's the essence. Not easy to know.

You bring a good point about using or hiding light or using gifts. There's a reason and a ti-ming for 36, and a reason and a time for 35. They are a pair. Not all gifts are appreciated, especially if the timing isn't right, or if the gift isn't right for the time. There must not only be the right timing but the right receptivity to receive the gift. Otherwise a leg of the Ding breaks, and the wonderful content spills onto the prince, and not only goes to waste but also offends the one intended to feed and bless.
Yes - the pairing of 35 and 36 has been striking me a lot lately. I mean, what's the difference between Prince Kang and Prince Ji, really? Both are conscientious, do exceptional work in hard times... only difference seems to be that one is rewarded with a gift of horses and the other with imminent danger of disembowelling.

Finding the people who actually want and need what you have to give - or just believing in their existence - is a whole other thing.

This is all getting way beyond what I had in mind with the original reading, which was 'just' about what 'changes hands', what's both given and received - ie it assumes the recipient is there and ready. But responses to this question, even with that assumption in place, aren't so clear for everyone - or can show weird disconnections between intention and realisation, as if someone knew what but just had yet to work out how.

Am slightly sighing here, only because Yi sometimes says what it wants to say seemingly without regard to the actual question asked (which is sometimes but not always a good thing) - but then here's a situation where a really subtle change in the wording, not even necessarily the intent, of the question makes a dramatic difference.

I can see it since you've laid it out here, but, I mean, it took you however-many years to hit upon this wording for this category of inquiry, and you're a professional. Whatever are the rest of us to do?! :(

Um, ask whatever question you find yourself asking? That generally seems to be the best one to ask...

(I'm 'a professional' because I decided to do this instead of getting, as my mother said, a proper job. No certificates on the wall here.)

The important change for me with this one wasn't in wording but actually in simplicity of intent. A general picture of what an interaction would be like overall isn't going to be as clear-cut... doesn't mean it's a bad question/ unhelpful reading, just that it's asking about something a bit - erm - blurrier.
 
S

sooo

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No, definitely not in one direction. A pair of readings I've used in the past:

What are my unique gifts?
What is my mandate?

In this sense 'mandate' (/calling/ destiny/ ...) could be the 'opposite'/counterpart of blessing. Yu the Great's 'gift' was to conquer the floods; this, by all accounts, was not fun.

Mandate, interesting counterpart. I like that.

Yes on the second too. That's more or less was I was getting at. I do not think a mandate would defy or oppose personal responsibility, accountability or timing. But then, it might. I can't recall a time when they were out of sync, when a gift well intended is well received.
 

pocossin

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. . . 'Gift' as in the thing you're given, parable-of-the-talents style, and more or less compelled to do something with. . .

If only they were compelling or could be easily encouraged. I had two relatives who amazed me with their artistic gifts. One could draw excellent portraits but clerked in a shoe store. The other was a school janitor. Society and themselves would have been better off had they exercised their talents. Both had ability but lacked the drive to use it.
 

hilary

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I do not think a mandate would defy or oppose personal responsibility, accountability or timing. But then, it might.
It can certainly defy or oppose what you're 'meant' to be doing by any rational, established definition of 'meant to be'. Over his decades of labour, Yu is said to have walked past his home several times without going in, even when he heard his newborn son crying there. And Wu, at least in one version of the story, didn't observe the burial and mourning rites for his father because of the demands of his mandate. This wasn't universally held to be a good thing.
 
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sooo

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It can certainly defy or oppose what you're 'meant' to be doing by any rational, established definition of 'meant to be'. Over his decades of labour, Yu is said to have walked past his home several times without going in, even when he heard his newborn son crying there. And Wu, at least in one version of the story, didn't observe the burial and mourning rites for his father because of the demands of his mandate. This wasn't universally held to be a good thing.

Your (or Yu's) definition of mandate is absolute and detailed, and comes from God, or some such, rather than from what an individual deems as his calling, based on Yu's (or your or my) brain and finer, developed and inherited sensitivities. I could see why this isn't accepted universally as a good thing.

This, theoretically, doesn't differ in perspective from the "intuition" thread, in terms of where either intuition or mandates come from, and how they are developed into beliefs.

Mandates are very dangerous things to engage in, as when Abraham had the mandate to kill Issac as an offering. I would sound vulgar to even mention the most hideous of human acts, done in the name of the Mandate of Heaven.

I have no such problem with the word mandate, just as I have no problem with the word intuition. But in both, I see them as intrinsic in us. We co-mandate from the gifts we inherit. That's my belief.
 

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