62 > 5 - A lost item divination

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

Hello Clarity Friends

This is a "what happened next" kind of post.

This is the story:
I was recently involved in a (not serious) car accident and my insurance company needed a copy of my driving license in order for me to get compensation for the damages. Then I realized that I didn't know where my driving license was; it was either misplaced or lost. In such cases there are time limits so I had a limited amount of time to find it and send the copy to the insurance company. So I decided to ask the Yi the following, simple, question: "Where is my driving license?" The answer was: 62.1,2,4,5 >43.

My initial thoughts were that the driving license was not lost but misplaced and that perhaps it was "sandwitched" amonst other things ('the strong lines being within'), that I should look for it in 'lowly places', it was not somewhere up high, I have to do a detailed search and be thorough in order to find it. Line 1 I interpreted to mean that I should look for it where I would normally look (my car for one thing or any of my bags as sometimes I carry it in my bag). 'Remain in the nest' I interpreted to mean that it was at home, i.e. possibly in a bag. I'd also moved house at the time so it was a bit chaotic at home these days, hence the need for a detailed search. Lines 2 and 4, I couldn't understand. Line 5 seemed to me to be about seeking helpers to do the search and the shooting of the bird in the cave made me wonder if the Yi was telling me that I had to drag the lost item out of its "hole".

After looking for it in vain and with the time pressing in on me, I posed a few more questions to the Yi in order to narrow down the search:
(1) Is it at home? 42.3,4 > 13
(2) Is it in my car? 45.2,5 > 40
(3) Have I misplaced it somewhere at work? 29.1 > 60
(4) Is it somewhere else? 62.2 >32

How would you interpret these answers? Do you think that I found it in the end or not? If no one would like to guess what happened, I will tell you (later because I have to be off now, but I will).

el_2

pocossin · Oct 2, 2010

62.1,2,4,5 >43

☳ ☱
☶ ☰

I enjoy lost item queries, but there's an error in you description of the casting in line 4, which shouldn't change to give 62 > 43. But maybe this oversight is the special clue to your oversight of the license

Line 4 suggests hesitation and friendship, and may be the place where lost memories go.

Taking the casting as 62 > 43, 62 suggests a bird's-eye-view, and 43 the presentation of documentation. This suggests to me that you took out the license when the accident occurred and did not replace it in your wallet/purse. And when you looked over the situation, you remembered where you put it. So, yes, you found your license and a forgotten memory too!

Liselle · Oct 2, 2010

You seem to have already resolved this and are submitting it as a fun puzzle for us, which takes the pressure off, and so I'm just going to quickly wonder if the readings are advising you to replace the license - get a new one rather than trying to find the old one?

Maybe the various readings aren't answers to your actual questions, but efforts to make a whole other point? (This happens to me sometimes.)

62.2 twice - thiscould mean to do something other than what's most obvious (the most obvious response to losing something is to look for it, but maybe there are alternatives?)

62 > 43, loosely interpreted, could mean don't get bogged down in the "detail" of trying to find your license, but "break through" the problem in some "decisive" way?

29.1 could be saying you're falling into chasms and pits of readings (or mental anguish!), rather than literally that the license has fallen into a hole - especially since this line comes quite a ways into a series of questions. I've had this happen in similar circumstances, and my impression is it's telling me to stop already.

45.5 - I don't have examples at hand, but I think Yi's used this with me to mean not trusting something in the reading(s). I've gotten this at times when I think Yi's obstinately refusing to answer my questions, and I'm getting angry and frustrated, and I think 45.5 is to say the situation is more pleasant than that if I'd just trust the friendly well-meaning oracle

The "prince" in the lines of 42 could mean some "official?" Enlist the help of someone in an official capacity, such as the license-issuing agency or asking the insurance company what to do?

Wait! - do you have to get a new license anyway with your new address on it?? 42.3 fits that very nicely!

All this is a guess, remember, under no pressure. This is the kind of thing that when it happens to me I tear my hair out...am anxious to hear what happened.

Lisa

Liselle · Oct 2, 2010

Just saw Pocossin saying there's no such reading as 62.1.2.4.5 > 43. Was it still 62 changing to 43 with one fewer moving line (take line 4 out)?

If so, I'll still stick with my guess - that you have to get a new license anyway, from changing your address, and that'll solve your insurance company problem too.

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

Oh yes, you're right. It changes to 5, doesn't it? So line 4 is included.

Lisa, you're right. It is something like a fun puzzle because I now know the outcome. I thought that maybe some people here would enjoy it. I won't prolong it for long, I'll just give a bit more time and I'll tell you what actually happened a bit later.

Perhaps it will be more interesting to look again at the reading when you know the outcome.

el_2

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

OK. So here it is.

Time was pressing as I said so I went through all the necessary procedures in order to have my license re-issued. I'm supposed to get it tomorrow. But today, as I picked up the last bag I'd left on the floor to place it in a closet, I found it. It was there. It was not a handbag, I don't usually carry it around with me so it didn't occur to me to look there. I'm thinking that possibly I put it there in case I needed it when I took a trip or something (without my car).

So it was low (on the floor) and 'sandwitched' among two inside pockets in that bag. The answer was accurate and on the whole I interpreted it correctly but my search wasn't actually thorough. Plus, I got the relating hexagram wrong. I can't say for sure but perhaps if I'd got the relating hexagram right maybe I'd waited before I went through the whole process of having my license re-issued.

As for the 42 > 13 answer I received when I asked if it was at home, there are two things that come to mind. First, the time of increase is short; you have to make good use of the time while it lasts. Second, as regards line 4, this thing about the 'removal of the capital' makes me think that it was referring to my moving house and that I should have focused on whatever was still lying on the floor and wasn't in its place.

As regards the 29 and 45 answers, I think you're right Lisa. They were not direct answers; they were just pointers to the right directions in relation to asking the Yi.

Finally, the last answer in this series of questions, 62.2... perhaps it could be interpreted as follows:
Failing to do a thorough search (62), I passed by the original license, the one I was looking for and 'met the official' (well, I actually had to meet the civil servants who were responsible for re-issuing driving licenses) but 'no blame'. At least, that's a way to interpret the answer. It was already predicting the outcome.

I still don't understand how line 4 of hex 62 (part of the initial answer) relates to this situation and I'm not sure about line 5 either. Perhaps the point was getting hex 5 as the relating hexagram, suggesting I should wait with the certainty that I'd find the license in the end but I actually got this totally wrong and I'm usually very careful when trying to find out what the relating hexagram is. Duh!

One more thing, about queries concerning lost items. It seems to me that you have to try to be very literal while thinking in terms of space. This is what I did and I was, oh, so very close. But not thorough. I didn't pay heed to the Image.

Well, no blame, right?

el_2

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

Pocossin, perhaps the oversight is a special clue to my absent-mindedness. I tend to lose things temporarily but not for good. There's very few things I can actually remember having lost. But looking for them everywhere from time to time, well, yes, I must admit it happens.

Cheers.

pocossin · Oct 2, 2010

Thanks for the details of the discovery. This "bag" is a handbag, isn't it? Does it have a special design, ornamentation, or color? I'm thinking there might be other relations to the hexagrams.

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

It seems I deleted my post before I sent it. So here it goes again.

It is a bowling bag. I don't go bowling but I don't use it as a handbag, I mean I don't carry it around with me when I go out. But sometimes I take it with me when I'm on a trip in addition to a suitcase. I like to store things other than clothes in smaller bags so that I keep them separate. That's why it didn't occur to me that I might have put my license there. But I did so that was a place to look for it. As for its colour, it's grey(ish). How do you mean there might be ohter relations to the hexagrams? Any ideas?

el_2

pocossin · Oct 2, 2010

el_2 said:
How do you mean there might be other relations to the hexagrams? Any ideas?

el_2

In addition to the imagery in the text, a hexagram's main trigrams are often relevant for applying a hexagram. Each trigram has color, shape, use, body, family, direction, animal, and other associations. For example:

Ken, Keeping still Mountain

Attribute: Stillness, stopping
Animal: dog
Body: hand
Family: youngest son
Direction: Northeast

el_2 · Oct 2, 2010

"Body: hand" - a bowling bag is still a handbag.

Thanks for alerting me to this idea, using the attributes of the trigrams. I'm sure it will come in handy next time I ask where a lost item is.

Thank you.

el_2

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

So, the real reading was 62.1.2.4.5 > 5? (typing this succinctly for the benefit of the hexagram search function

)

This is interesting, though - and it is fun!

Thanks for posting it. I'll have to go back and think about the readings now that we have the answer.

One thing that immediately pops to mind - I wonder why Yi never, in all those readings, gave you line 2.4:

‘Tied up in a bag. No mistake, no praise.’

Would that have helped? What do you think about that?

[Edited to add] Also, did you find your license in the bowling bag before or after the deadline for the insurance company?

[Edited again] Er...third question, sorry...but did you actually have to get a new license regardless, because of moving?

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

Lisa,

I had to have a license or get a license re-issued (if I'd lost it) because
I was involved in a car accident. The insurance company asked for a copy. At the same time this whole thing happened I had just moved to a new home and had stuff all over the place at the beginning. So I thought that if my license wasn't to be found in the car, maybe it was somewhere in my new house with all the rest of the stuff.

I found the license before the deadline (I actually managed to prolong it for a few days) but after I had applied for a new license to be issued (or re-issued). So in terms of the latter procedure I was too late.

I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you're asking when you mention 2.4. Could you elaborate please?

el_2

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

Hi el_2,

2.4 is about a bag, and your license was in a bag, so it seems like an obvious line to have gotten, and I'm trying to think about why Yi wouldn't have given it to you. Telling you it's in a bag seems more specific than saying it's somewhere near the floor. (To me. Maybe not to you?)

My other questions were because I'm trying to figure out if these readings were presenting two options at the same time - telling you literally where to find your license, AND suggesting you just get a new one. (I think I've gotten an occasional reading like that.)

Where I live, if you change your address you're supposed to get a new driver's license. If that's true for you, Yi could have suggested it as an easier solution than hunting for the old one. (Bradford's glossary terms for hex 5 include "necessity" and "requirement" - something you'd have to do regardless. Of course, it also means "Waiting," which as you explained also fits.)

This is a good example, which there aren't enough of. So for learning purposes I'm trying to make the whole series fit the actual outcome, in hindsight, but it has to ring true to you.

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

I think I can explain why I didn't get 2.4 in the first place. Even before consulting the Yi I knew I had to search in all my handbags for the license; I had actually already done this. Then, when I got the 62 answer I went through them once again being very meticulous in my search. At the same time I placed them in a closet - so I did a bit of tidying up. And now I think that it was so obvious, it is unbelievable, the only bag I'd still left lying on the floor, one of the last items I hadn't put in their place was that bowling bag. It just didn't cross my mind to look for my license there. So, a mere 2.4 wouldn't be enough. The Yi was trying to tell me that it was in something (the bag in this case) lying on the floor, as low as it gets. My search would have been a lot easier and more effective if I'd just gone through the few things still not in their proper places that were on the floor - even if I thought it improbable that my license would be there. You know, as I'm writing these words I'm realizing that it was so very obvious and I was so very close because my interpretation was right. I wasn't thorough though, even though I really thought I was.

Here you don't have to get a new driver's license when you change address so I don't think this was a necessity. Perhaps the Yi was answering my question and predicting that possibly I would in the end meet an 'official' because I would fail to be meticulous in my search.

Another thing occurred to me just now: I found my driver's license when I was not looking for it and when there was no longer any need for it either. Do you see this in any of the lines of 62? I'm thinking that 62.5 was telling me perhaps that I'd look for it in vain ('dense clouds, no rain') but subsequently I'd find it (shooting a bird in the cave) but that it would no longer be useful to me (so, yeah, I shot the bird in the cave but so what? nothing great was achieved). I think this interpretation is consistent with the ambiguity of the nature of the achievement described in 62.5. But I can't see if the Yi was also telling me that I'd find the license when I was not looking for it in any of the lines I got.

It's fun asking the Yi about lost items and then trying to interpret the answer. The wealth of information is amazing. So many clues and I still was clueless.

el_2

pocossin · Oct 3, 2010

el_2 said:
It's fun asking the Yi about lost items and then trying to interpret the answer. The wealth of information is amazing. So many clues and I still was clueless.

Yes, it has been fun, thanks for posting. But the situation as a whole is ominous. A driver's license is a representation of oneself, so in losing it you symbolically lost yourself. In this brief episode there is a series of "accidents" -- minor car accident, lost license, error in casting. The error in casting I take as a Freudian slip -- an error revealing deeper meaning. The line you "accidently" included reads:

62.4
Nine in the fourth place means:
No blame. He meets him without passing by.
Going brings danger. One must be on guard.

Life and the Yi seem to be warning you of an unanticipated danger, a future opportunity you should decline, so keep your guard up.

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

Um...what is actually the correct reading? 62 > 43 or 62 > 5?

I at least am still confused. I thought it ended up to be 62 > 5, but after Pocossin's last post I don't know again!

And yes, this is oodles of fun, confusion or not

.

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

And Pocossin, surely a few medium-sized mishaps can occur without a major catastrophe following them, right? I don't know, of course, and being on guard is generally good advice, but ominous portents of doom could be scaring a person for no reason, don't you think? It's famously hard to tell the "scale" of events from readings - there's an example here somewhere about hex 47, "oppression by authority" - the querent was afraid of being arrested and thrown in jail, and all that actually happened was his car was blocked in by city street repairs or something like that.

pocossin · Oct 3, 2010

lisa said:
. . . surely a few medium-sized mishaps can occur without a major catastrophe following them, right?

Yes, I agree, but I think we unconsciously participate in what happens to us, and surrounding events reveal us to ourselves. A driver's license is a specially significant object. It's our ID. It's our true self -- real picture, real age, real disabilities. Losing it has extra significance, but the loss wasn't a portent of doom, since the license that was lost is now found.

pocossin · Oct 3, 2010

lisa said:
Um...what is actually the correct reading? 62 > 43 or 62 > 5?

I at least am still confused. I thought it ended up to be 62 > 5

Yes, the correct casting is 62 > 5, and this too is a part of my reading of the situation, since I understand the "waiting" in 5 to be guard duty on the border. "He also serves who only stands and waits" -- said by Napoleon, I think.

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

A driver's license is a specially significant object. It's our ID. It's our true self...

I never knew that, and how it's significant in divination. Interesting.

...the loss wasn't a portent of doom, since the license that was lost is now found.

Good news! And I didn't know that either, about a portent existing, and then reversing itself, if/when the lost object is found. What if you lose something and don't find it? Does the portent, whatever it is, sort of hang there indefinitely?

El_2, before we go any further discussing your reading - for the benefit of the search function and future readers, is it possible for you to change the title of this thread to read "62 > 5" instead of the erroneous 62 > 43? (I have no idea if that can be done.)

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

It was 62 > 5.

A lot of things happened accidentally. I accidentally misplaced the license, I accidentally misread the relating hexagram and, finally, I accidentally found the lost item.

Pocossin could be right about the need to be on guard but I too think that, in this case, I shouldn't take things out of proportion. Even with questions about more serious issues, the effects of an 'ominous' reading might not be so dramatic after all. The lesson here is to try to be less absent-minded in the future I think.

el_2

pocossin · Oct 3, 2010

lisa said:
Does the portent, whatever it is, sort of hang there indefinitely?

No, inner tendencies have outer expression.

El_2, before we go any further discussing your reading - for the benefit of the search function and future readers, is it possible for you to change the title of this thread to read "62 > 5" instead of the erroneous 62 > 43? (I have no idea if that can be done.)

I think I can do it, but since it's El_2's thread, I'll need her permission to make the change.

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

Oh yes, go ahead and change the title if you can. I don't think I can do it, I don't know how.

el_2

pocossin · Oct 3, 2010

el_2 said:
Oh yes, go ahead and change the title if you can. I don't think I can do it, I don't know how.

el_2

It's done. The thread title now reads: "62 > 5 - A lost item divination".

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

Thanks

Liselle · Oct 3, 2010

No, inner tendencies have outer expression.

I don't understand that, sorry, Pocossin.

The thread title now reads: "62 > 5 - A lost item divination".

Thanks!

Back to the reading...

Thanks for explaining about our different laws (that you didn't have to replace your license for your new address), also about why line 2.4 wouldn't have helped.

About finding the license by chance, when you'd stopped looking for it - I think there's at least one line that could have told you that, 38.2:

‘Meeting a lord in a narrow street. Not a mistake.’

(Wilhelm-Baynes commentary says: "...an accidental meeting under informal circumstances...")

There are also lines like:

38.1
‘Regrets vanish.
Lost horse, no running after it, it returns of itself.
See hateful people,
No mistake.’

and

63.2
‘A wife loses her veil.
Don’t chase it.
On the seventh day, gain.’

38.2 especially seems perfect to me! Maybe not as the first reading, since the concepts of details and the floor/ground/"low"-ness in hex 62 are also important, and I know hex 5 was there to say "Wait" - but I really wonder why 38.2 wasn't there somewhere along the way? It's intriguing (and a bit frustrating!) when Yi passes up seemingly obvious responses.

But onward to the lines you actually got.

A problem is that knowing the outcome makes it much easier to recognize the answers in the readings (in hex 62.) What really matters, of course, is being able to see it beforehand!

62 in general - there are still details remaining (a bag you hadn't checked.)

62.1 - the initial line in the reading seems to be about what happened first (a lot of energy expended "flying" - searching - without result.)

62.2, which you got in two separate readings - you'd "pass by" the correct bag and search instead in the other bags.

62.4 - might just mean the general difficulty you'd have with this, but there is "no blame" in it. Bradford says in his commentary "To look all of this over, but overlook nothing, is out of [your reach]." LiSe Heyboer says that "facing [the situation] is safer than turning one’s back on it."

62.5 - I agree, the final line seems to contain the end result. You said about your bowling bag "It just didn't cross my mind to look for my license there," and "I thought it improbable that my license would be there." Wilhelm-Baynes's commentary seems to be about things that are overlooked or given less credit than is due them:

It is not in the fame nor their great names but their genuine achievements that are important. Through such modesty the right man is found, and the exceptional task is carried out in spite of all difficulties.

About 42 > 13 - Yes, I agree, 42.4 almost certainly refers to your moving house. Do you think the references in both lines to "notifying the prince," with hex 13 ("social mechanism") as the relating hexagram, are about getting the deadline extended? You "benefited" from going to the "mechanism" of authority (the insurance company) and explaining your problem?

el_2 · Oct 3, 2010

Lisa,

You're right; it is much easier to interpret a hexagram you have been given when you know the outcome.

Your detailed analysis deepened my understanding. Especially re. 62.5. I'd sort of disregarded that part of the line because I thought it was about helpers and surely I don't need help to search my house (or my car). I mean, it is not a huge house. But you put in more general and abstract terms and I think this is the right way to interpret that part of the line.

Re. your other question, I'd say I didn't get 38.2 or something along those lines because I didn't ask HOW I'd find the license but WHERE it was. Initially, I thought I'd ask how but then I thought that the presumption would be that I would actually find it, that it was not lost for good even if it was.

I think that both Pocossin and you suggested some very good ideas and helped me understand the answers in light of the outcome better. For me, it seems it proved to be useful to start this thread. And fun.

el_2

62 > 5 - A lost item divination

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