hi everyone!

I have a reading in my hands about one of my students. There are a couple of difficult cases of kids where I work and I have consulted the IC on how to be with them but I have my doubts on this one.

This is about a boy aged 10 . . he's very aggressive, most times impossible in class (he harasses and curses other kids, shouts, kicks, screams, you name it). I already had a show-down with him when I stopped him from hitting another kid but the past few days he seems to start trusting me more. I'm getting that he needs a lot of attention and the only times he's been really responsive to me is when I proposed that we go to the principal's office to treat a wound he had (he gets these really ugly wounds, they look like burns, are quite superficial but big patches in his hands and feet ).

Anyway, my question was as to 'what is the best way to handle the situation with (name)' and got 22.1,3 to 23.
the first thing that popped into mind was 'dress up the wounds' which is rather obvious but I'm still having some trouble with the lines. 22.3 is especially a difficult one for me. So far I had it to mean that one has to sit pretty and avoid expressing what bothers them because others are not ready (or do not want) to listen to it, so I'm guessing this says 'don't talk to the parents'? Or maybe it's about the boy that feels uncomfortable in class? (his regular teacher also has trouble and usually let's him stay in the yard when he feels like it but I think this is no solution either . .)

I know my role does not leave me much room for action (22) as well as the fact that I tend to have a positive view on 22 as healing and such but I would appreciate your ideas and experiences particularly with line 3, even if radically different, before making up my mind (has it meant for example 'back off, rid of any ideas you have, you don't know what's really happening'??)

would really appreciate your feedback!

Dora

When I get two hexagrams in a natural row like that, I look at the sequence. Hilary translates this sequence (from 22 to 23) as "Involved in brightening the appearance; this means success will truly be exhausted, and so stripping away follows."

So if it were me I would look around in this situation for some mask or facade that is no longer a true representation of what is behind it. I don't know if this might be the kid's facade--if there is some other grief or pain behind his acting out that you need to look into -- or yours--if you might be showing him a false face, even a well-intended one, that is not helping the situation somehow? (Obviously I am wildly guessing here). Or if just in general there is something false in the situation?

Anyway, just my two cents, in case any of it resonates for you.

okay sorry I had another thought!

one is that the lines show a couple of ways to do this getting-behind-appearances (see I almost would think this was saying the OPPOSITE of "dress the wounds" -- not literally, of course, his wounds should be dressed -- but metaphorically maybe they need NOT to be covered up?)

One is that line 1 to me says something like get down off your motorcycle and walk through the countryisde (in this case, the situation or even the kid himself = the countryside). Slow down. I can imagine that a busy teacher has very little time to spend with individual students, but in this case maybe it is worthwhile to slow down, spend some time carefully looking/talking, let things emerge.

And line 3 is a line about a happy daze or dream -- I was just posting recently somewhere that it is not always bad! sometimes it is a lovely situation! -- but actually it is also a situation to be extremely cautious about, especially in the context of a reading which seems to be saying "you must strip away a facade." Do you have some false idea in this situation that is pleasant but wrong? See if you can find one, maybe.

Sorry for all the maybes and questions marks. I get stuff wrong all. the.time. But I had a strong reaction to this reading, for some reason.

What do you mean, "He gets these really ugly wounds, they look like burns"? Do you suspect child abuse?
Rosada

thank you knot! your posts are quite helpful actually!

in fact, reading your second post it dawned on me that the lines could be saying: 'get off your high horse and your fancy dreaming of actually being capable to help him', which is exactly what I'm afraid of . . that my capacity to help these kids, even in minor ways, is a fanciful fantasy brickwall. It's true that during class there's only so much I can do -without ignoring the rest of the kids that is- but that is a major problem for class anyway and the time is evenly divided between doing rounds and seeing each kid on its own and addressing all of them at once but individual time is never enough . . so I can mostly approach him during breaks or such (and then only when he is approachable of course).

As for stripping away the facade . . unfortunately I have no delusions of perfection of the schooling system and our role as teachers is really very circumscribed (I am not the kid's therapist, or doctor, or relative and there's only so much I am entitled to do). For the most part our hands are tied so any kind of radical stripping on any such front is out of the question.

On the other side, 22.1 could be 'don't get rash on seeing results, this is gonna take time' which leaves me way more room to take small steps and hope for improvement but then again I don't get line 3. It does correspond to 52.3, but that doesn't help me much either


would love to read more thoughts on this

rosada said:

What do you mean, "He gets these really ugly wounds, they look like burns"? Do you suspect child abuse?
Rosada

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uhmm .. I hesitate to have a mind on this; he either gets them while playing or something else. But knowing that another kid with such issues gets regularly beaten up by his family (or so it's heard) my mind can start assuming . . still, I hesitate to say, such cases are no place for making assumptions

I would suggest that more bruises and signs of abuse are under his clothes if you could see beneath them {Hex 22 to 23]. I'd advise you that some authorities need to be alerted, perhaps by the school principal. From working with dependent-neglected and delinquent kids I can tell you that someone may be stamping on his hands and feet and hitting him elsewhere. Another possibility is self-abuse. This kid needs help.

rodaki said:

22.3 is especially a difficult one for me.

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Transitional Hexagrams take you from 22.1 through 52.3 to 23.
Does 52.3 make any more sense? It's more consistent with a psychological disorder.

Using the same method Bradford references, I could see 52.3 as possibly the true source of anguish (heart area/his emotions) being held back, thus not addressed....in which case might echo the need to look at how he is being treated at home....and 22 is about the superficial in some respects....could it be saying to strip away the superficial and look deeper.

even though 22 may be comforting in terms of healing, the 23 is likely to indicate a problem brought to your attention by "superficial wounds"....

also,wounds to the feet, and hands in this case, are also "interesting"...whether it is abuse or not, the physical wounds are in areas of the body that are key to personal power. feet: what you stand on/foundation. hands: how you grasp the world/also a symbol of personal empowerment, in this case wounded. Sorry for going all Jungian on you! In drawings of abused/neglected children, the hands are often left out completely.

never underestimate your power to help children. Even a small amount of focused attention with genuine caring and concern go a long way. can sometimes make the crucial difference.

rodaki said:

22.1 could be 'don't get rash on seeing results, this is gonna take time' which leaves me way more room to take small steps

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Yes, I think so, too. It would be arduous.

rodaki said:

but then again I don't get line 3.

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He's an irritating distraction from what you're trying to do: teach the class.

Whenever this child is acting up, it's like you're trying to get through to the end of the class through a rainstorm. Or it could be he's constantly in your face while you're trying to keep the whole class on track.

Like a number of people who posted above, I see his behavior patterns as indications of much deeper family/social/emotional problems. As his teacher, can you address those deeper problems?

The boy is already 10 years old and so far nobody has taken him under their wing. There's something frightening about him. One feels one might get injured (somehow) in the attempt to help this child. Is it not true? And yet as a caring person you don't want to simply abandon him ... He obviously needs help.

I agree with Arabella that the authorities need to be notified. There's a whole story behind his wounds and bruises.

I see the hexagram 23 is indicating your wish to cut into this situation and see the bare bones of it; to understand it. Might be more advisable to notify the authorities, however, and let them start an investigation into what's going on. Something is obviously going on, because he's reacting to something else you don't know about.

Haven't read the answers here so sorry if i repeat something but just looking at your question and the Yi's answer I thought perhaps you can see 23 as generocity and 22 as your "facade" at school, ie teacher. In that terms I see 22.1 as leave out a bit your teacher role and try to create a freindly -trusting relatio9nship with him , but don't overdo it (become something like pals, lo) because he had to feel safe with you.

Just a thought...

Rosada once had the insight that when we get 23 as the relating hex, then this marks the limit of what one person can do on his or her own. I agree with that.

Since you intend to help this child, the way forward is through communication with others about the situation. There may be a need for a lot of clear communication with other people, going step by step.

Is the school principle the person to start with? I have never been involved in a school system, so I don't know who is the person you would need to speak with ...

That the child is acting out in class is a good thing. He is attempting in the only way he knows to call attention to the fact that he needs help from adults. It's now up to the adults to take the necessary steps to get help for this child.

thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! I have notified the principal from day one on this, and the kid's regular teacher and the teacher for kids with learning difficulties we have at school -that's as far as I'm entitled to do- so the answer is mostly about what falls within my interaction with him and those limits . . I've read all your comments once but I do need to let them sink in a bit before responding . .

I'll be back
:bows:

p.s.: Arabella you mentioned some experience with kids with problems and I was wondering if you could suggest any specific way of approaching him, or any other advice??

rodaki said:

thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! I have notified the principal from day one on this, and the kid's regular teacher and the teacher for kids with learning difficulties we have at school -that's as far as I'm entitled to do- so the answer is mostly about what falls within my interaction with him and those limits . . I've read all your comments once but I do need to let them sink in a bit before responding . .

I'll be back
:bows:

p.s.: Arabella you mentioned some experience with kids with problems and I was wondering if you could suggest any specific way of approaching him, or any other advice??

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There are so many variables in your situation because this child is at school, not in a therapeutic program it's even more complicated. You have more control of events when a child is in placement versus an open school setting. If he's healthy, I'd try to encourage him in a physical activity that IS acceptable and maybe channel the aggression. Beyond that, the biggest element in helping a troubled kid is giving him something he can succeed in. Start small and build. What is he good at? Try to steer him into projects, reading, after school activities, that emphasize his strengths. I'd be careful not to make a "favorite" of him because that will work against him with other kids. You've got to be subtle in the circumstances. On balance, I wouldn't go out of my way to praise him for anything that ISN'T legitimately good. Troubled kids have a radar for those who shine them on. As much as anybody they need to be acknowledged for the successes, but not over-rewarded. And, as with any child, minimise the failures; stress the success. Do you know anything about his parents at all? Is there a school social worker who can support your efforts to work with this boy? Go easy on yourself Rodaki, you've picked a difficult one. Don't judge yourself too harshly if there aren't immediate results, or any results for that matter. This boy must have a very tough home life.

arabella said:

If he's healthy, I'd try to encourage him in a physical activity that IS acceptable and maybe channel the aggression.... emphasize his strengths.

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I wonder whether or not pestering the principal, the child's regular teacher, and the special teacher are in order here. I can't envision how anything at all will go forward unless two adults at least are united in the goal of helping this boy.

I agree with Arabella above that physically, he needs to open up ways to move and be as spontaneously active as possible. Karate class, field sports, maybe he wants to join a certain team ... swim, or run ...

And yes, I just heard the same advice about someone else --- to find out what he's really, really good at. Once he finds what he's good at, he might settle into that completely -- and that could become the core of all his future development.

Everybody is interested in something. How to discover what is his hidden strength?

Children in stressed out families have a numbrer of ways of signaling they just aren't coping and agressive behavior, property damage, fighting, and using drugs and alcohol as a means to be violent are tendancies of boys. Girls tend more to self-harm, substance abuse, sexual acting out and awful relationships that perpetuate the harm. The thing about abuse is that, in boys, it tends to generate anxiety that appears in anger. The anxiety in girls may also be violent, but more often pools in depression and extreme frustration. Of course, this is speaking in very general terms and you can't put DSM III in a paragraph. This is just my own experience talking. I taught creative writing and journalism to delinquent kids at first, lived in a group home for five years with fifteen boys [I wasn't much older than they were] then did more involved work in outdoor/wilderness programs. I found that, before we could discuss anything around a table it was a good idea to play basketball, go for a walk, do some jumping jacks -- even stand up and stretch. Get your class to do some stretching maybe. Sitting in a chair all day is awful for any child, let alone a damaged one. PM me Rodaki if you want and we can get in touch. I'd be happy to help if I can.

Hi, Dora:

Little to add to what has been already said.

An almost literal translation of H.22, 22.1, 22.3 and H.23:

This is YOUR feast.
Remain here and now
... and enjoy (or employ) what you have received.

Your feet are gifted with innitiative, take an action
... but be humble and go slowly.


To be gifted is like to get wet. Easy to enter buy difficult to exit.
Consequences can become serious. You're commited, engaged at your own risk.
Not easy, but to be gifted is to have a permanent source of luck.



Once more, be realistic, stay here and now. No profit in going far.


All the best,


Charly

P.D.:

The GIFTS of H.22 and his symbols:

1: Innitiative, the FEET; Humbleness, to GO ON FOOT.
2: Maturity, BEARD / ELDER SISTER going to be MAIN WIFE.
3: Commitment, to get WET.
4: Gentleness, WHITE WINGED HORSE and the F_CKING BANDITS (*).
5: Passion, the MOUNT'S GARDEN.
6: Resuming, all gifted. PLAINLY GIFTED.
____________________
(*) Bandits used to act in the dark, supposedly with BLACK HORSES to avoid being seen. This bandits are looking for wives to fetch, but the horse is white, almost angelical, say WHITE-GLOVE ROBBERS.
Gentle bandits.

Ch.

aww . . I can't say how much I appreciate your comments you all .. where to begin from?
One thing I wanted to say about pushing for further measures is that I don't feel comfortable proceeding like this for many reasons, most of all because I think that getting stigmatized from any kind of 'intervention' can be further troubling for a kid that obviously feels so unsafe that he resorts to fighting and cursing.

Another thing is that I absolutely agree that acting out is actually a good thing. I think that he is dealing with something he cannot process himself so he acts it out -much better than swallowing it up and letting it eat him up from the inside- not much easier though. Ginnie it's true, he is being a nuisance and his behaviour is to the detriment of the rest of the class but I find it's easier to work with one difficult child rather than with a bunch of kids that won't stop talking to each other all at once

Maria thanks for chipping in with your thoughts too that friends thing was one that popped into my mind too, but I decided to pass it by; being in the place of the teacher creates some objective limits that keep us both safe -what if for example I had to leave that school for some reason? I don't want to get too close so as to not risk feelings of abandonment later on if I get pulled out from that school altogether. In fact that is happening to some extent already, I am being asked to give up half of my classes there (not leaving his though) and take up classes in a town high school

Arabella was you the one who said I picked a difficult one?? One third of the kids in the new school have criminal records, I think the bar is getting raised to lengthier heights and I might just take up your pm invitation :bag: -really grateful for the offer, it feels good to know there is someone with experience willing to help even in the case it won't be needed (I hope it won't, let's hope things won't get uglier).

Your exercise-before-any-talk suggestion was absolutely brilliant!! I've resorted in stretching and breathing exercises when the kids' energy gets too much and maybe I should try to find a way to give them exercise outlets for special cases . .
This also fits perfectly with the transitional 52.3 (which for some reason I kept thinking as 23.3 so it wasn't making much sense. I guess I really didn't want to think of what 52.3 is really saying) Bradford and Bamboo, thanks for bringing it up! Bamboo thanks for the hands/feet connotations, wouldn't have thought of them myself . Your encouragement about what small but consistent effort can do was exactly what I needed to hear


last but not least . .
Charly that was a great idea on 22.3 -wetness is also linked to release and that again ties in with 52.3. Maybe this is saying that what goes on in the class should not be about this ideal image of teaching at all costs obedient little people but about feeling out their needs, sometimes to the expense of the teacher's schedule, or the material covered or the amount of information delivered, maybe something like don't get afraid to go off what one imagines teaching is, if this feeds the children's hearts; shattering the mirror of expectations could be much more fulfilling in real terms (Ginnie and Arabella, your input has been very helpful in providing me with new outlets on this).

Already I have made changes in the layout and organization of the class to benefit all students. That boy abt whom I did the query has been out of school past couple of days due to illness but I think we'll be able to make some progress in class when he comes back . . I'm keeping my fingers crossed and taking your advice about possible gratifying approaches

Rodaki, I'm also a great believer in prayer and requesting divine intervention.

Suffering is everywhere around us. We cannot do much, most of the time -- those of us who wish to 'make a difference.'

Another thought: Tough kids don't always want to be helped. Sometimes they won't allow it.

This causes us to think more deeply ... and maybe be more humble.

charly said:

The GIFTS of H.22 and his symbols:

1: Innitiative, the FEET; Humbleness, to GO ON FOOT.
2: Maturity, BEARD / ELDER SISTER going to be MAIN WIFE.
3: Commitment, to get WET.
4: Gentleness, WHITE WINGED HORSE and the F_CKING BANDITS (*).
5: Passion, the MOUNT'S GARDEN.
6: Resuming, all gifted. PLAINLY GIFTED.
____________________
(*) Bandits used to act in the dark, supposedly with BLACK HORSES to avoid being seen. This bandits are looking for wives to fetch, but the horse is white, almost angelical, say WHITE-GLOVE ROBBERS.
Gentle bandits.

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Your translations are precious, Charly.

Are those WHITE-GLOVE ROBBERS like white collar criminals?

That is, they don't look like criminals. Maybe they aren't robbers at all. One translation says the marriage will take place when the robbers have left. The thief looks like an angel? Maybe that is why this line appears under hex 22, the appearance of things ...

I am perplexed about this line ... 22.4.